Well, It's interesting theory I came to, we know already that there is a lone force behind all things in thedas, and we know it must be evil one, tricky one to manipulate all these different people, factions, and forces, it should have very long life to be able to do so, that made some people assume it's Flemeth who are behind all this just because she has the ability and long life, but it's unlikely, Flemeth played a role to "solve" in many parts, not to "destroy" , and if we turn our back to flemeth we will find very few options...
A long life demon/spirit will be unlikely, they don't understand living very well, they suffer confusion in our world, and they go into categories that give them strength in one role not the others, which work against being the ultimate manipulator.
The so called Old Gods is unlikely, we saw them at their max, sing to Darkspawn and touch their taint then become Archdemon, that's very limited role to affect that major scale.
so we are left with Elven pantheon, and specially the master manipulator, the trickster, Fen'Harel the dread wolf, the elven legends say that all pantheon helped them but Fen'Harel kept to himself and plotted the betrayal of all pantheon, and he succeeded by sealing them in their realms and stay alone in our world, which gave him the whole chance to start turn around and trick the living who are easier to hunt, and he had spent long time planning for such moment.
What support this theory is the short series Dragon Age: Redemption , in that series Saarebas (Dragon Age: Redemption) was using Mask of Fen'Harel to tear the veil open, in exact same way it started to open that big tear in DA:I trailer, plus he was addressing the Dread Wolf as if though it was able to hear him, so we can assume that having the right way to contact Fen'Harel with some blood magic from elves and the right tool "the mask here or something bigger in DA:I" will tear the veil open, and don't forget the place where this happened : Sundermount at the dread wolf statue feet, the same place where Flemeth sent you with her amulet and made Keeper Marethari go with her clan to meet you, the very near place to where the mages/templars war started, the doomed city of kirkwall, where so many conspiracies started and where everything go made, the near place to where Legacy accrued and one of the first Magisters awake.. it's perfect place to plot and start so many things.. So, this is my theory about the matter, I'd like to hear what you think about it.. Elnawawi (talk) 20:11, September 18, 2013 (UTC)
There is one thing above all that makes me doubt this, we don't even know if Fen'Harel or any of the elven deities even exist and there's been nothing pointing to it. I'd ignore anything in that horrible mess that Day dreamed up during her lunch break, it's not a reliable source of information. Blighter (talk) 21:29, September 18, 2013 (UTC)
Haven't you considered that Fen'harel is just a product of imagination of elves? Mask of Fen'harel is a simply a painted clay mask, magic makes it an artefact, Elves could put this magic in any other object and call it whatever they pleased, for example Mythal's eye or nose. Would you, Elnawawi, suspect Mythal, if it was named by her name? I think no deity of any mythology is real, only demons are behind the demon invasion, which began from tearing the Veil by blood and deaths of victims of mage-templar war. There is no conspiracy, but a result of that idiotic war.78.8.135.75 (talk) 21:36, September 18, 2013 (UTC)StubbornMageSLayer
- well I see more than one comment decline my theory for same reason, "the whole elven so called gods isn't real" , well myself I believe in whole dragon age there is no real god, but that doesn't mean these names and events said by human/elves/dwarfs have a real element in them, we have no proof that Elven pantheon exist yet, but at same time we have no proof against it at all, that still don't give us a solid ground to stand on and deny them whole easily, the fact that bioware didn't give us proof of them exist in first 2 games doesn't mean they will not give us that in third game, in fact all these codex about them give us a sign they are there somewhere, bioware staff wouldn't waste time writing on something totally unreal in their game, plus all the talking (with voices) from Merrill and others, it's not like bioware I know. plus, qunari know it exists, listen carefully how that qunari mage talk to him in "redemption", you will get same feel Elnawawi (talk) 02:07, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
- How do you know there are no gods in the DA universe? I mean the world had to come from somewhere. Evolution isn't a viable explanation in a world of magic, a completely unexplained phenomenon. I suppose some form of magical mutation could exist. Perhaps the Big Bang occurred the same way, except magic exists as a force as well and just randomly mutates organisms and objects it has contact with on occasion. Gives people the ability to control it, changes the physical forms of creatures, perhaps it could even create a mirror realm, the Fade, out of the emotions and thoughts of the inhabitant of the normal world, demons out of the emotions and dark thoughts of humanity. What I'm trying to say is that there is no sure explanation for a world that doesn't have any scientific research whatsoever, and to assume there aren't any gods without evidence is an irresponsible school of thought.Arkangel37 (talk) 14:00, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
You have a nice theory but as much fun as it would be, no, I am not the cause of everything happening. You may want to talk to the "the old hag that talks too much". The Dread Wolf
- You are master trickster, I wouldn't believe you, in fact I think the old hag is your real counter and you just want to frame her :D Elnawawi (talk) 02:07, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
the old hag that talks to much? you mean morrigan??? oooooohhh burn!lolStar Metal Knight (talk) 00:49, September 19, 2013 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you're going by when you say Flemeth has only "solved" things. The only thing she's "solved" was keeping The Warden and Alistair alive, and we know she had ulterior motives for doing that. Morrigan herself made it quite clear that Flemeth was planning something, though she wouldn't say what. Trusting Morrigan's word might not be the best idea, but based on the way Flemeth acts and the things she says it's probably a good guess that she's up to SOMETHING.
Your theory itself makes some sense besides that point though. I'd have to say though, that it seems unlikely they'd suddenly throw the Dread Wolf into prominence as the Big Bad when he'd only been, mostly, offhandedly mentioned before when they have a prominent, CLEARLY evil, mage just waiting around to do something horrible. Morrigan's presence itself I think stands as the biggest hint that it'll be Flemeth causing the main problem. We'll just have to wait and see. --NinjaChocobo925 (talk) 01:04, September 19, 2013 (UTC)
- in fact Bioware always throw things like this in our way, they even threw something totally new in the last DLC in the last game of the series "Mass effect" and that new thing were the biggest bad race who created the reapers, something like that wouldn't make them hesitate, may be my theory isn't right, but throwing dread wolf in our way wouldn't be hard, Morrigan is so young and foolish and she think she know everything while she is wrong, that's said by her mother and her sister, and yes, we have to wait and see, but that doesn't prevent us from making theories on how bioware think for the game, even we might give them an idea to put in game by these theories Elnawawi (talk) 02:07, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
My question is how "canon" is DA:Redemption? Yes, they added an entire DLC around Tallis, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the writers can't just hand-wave half or more of Felicia Day's series as her personal fan-fiction that didn't happen that way. They may one day decide they need to do that for their own writing, and whatever they say goes. So I'm not too hung up on the whole "mask of Fen'Harel" thing. While I see what OP is getting at, we still don't have any reason to believe that Fen'Harel is the "great evil" of the franchise, or if there even is one. Except for Ser Conrad's Great Demon, he sounds like bad news. RShepard227 (talk) 04:49, September 19, 2013 (UTC)
- What with all those DEMONY things he makes people do? You're probably right. --NinjaChocobo925 (talk) 06:26, September 19, 2013 (UTC)
- That was a good frame, funny how I read this from you just after I finish that quest on my recent play-through , well seriously, we have no reason to believe he is the great evil behind the franchise, it's just a theory to think about
- My two cents... diversity in enemy forces needs to be maintained at all costs, the most unique enemies, goals, and conflicts there are the long the series will last. Now I certainly think that there should be a connection between thedosian pantheons and hte darkspawn, but that doesnt mean there arent other pantheons, evil forces, or other things out there in the world... and it would a bad idea to introduce Fen'Harel as the catalyst for all evil in thedas... before other evils are introduced. You gotta be extra careful with these sort of things. ralok (talk) 02:38, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
A new small Clue here supporting part of my theory is sandal prophecy as he say " One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part, and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see.", that's obviously a "he" who is responsible of the tear in the veil "the skies will open wide when he rises", not Flemeth, not even a "she", he already talk about the "old lady" who is scary, so it's so obvious that she is not the same thing that will "rise" and cause the tear .. so even if my theory of the dread wolf is weak, I hope people start open their mind and think of something else, not just stick to the ill theory of Flemeth and nothing more, that remind me of indoctrination theory back in MA series , thousands of players kept believing it even after bioware launched a DLC that proved it very wrong Elnawawi (talk) 02:58, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
- The indocrination theory is more of an attempt to salvage our own sanity, its either that or pray that the creators of ME3 were insane... I would hate to live in a world where rational-minded people would consider the games ending good. I am personally bothered by Sandals prophecy, it indicates horrible space magic that will turn everyone into mages... doing something like that would cause the franchise to collapse (just like Mass Effect) you cant have people undergo a change where everyone will be happy smiley super fun times and the universe is good. I do believe that Flemeth is the dread wolf, but I chose to believe that Sandal is an errant old god that was never imprisoned in the fade, and that his statement is an ultimatum rather than a prophecy. If everyone got the ability to have magic it would be stupid for.... infinity reasons, 1. Everyone would be susceptible to demonic posseesion 2. everyone wouldnt be equel with the power in terms of training so it solves nothing 3. it invalidates pretty much every story telling possibility. I am not saying drastic changes cant happen to a franchise... but any change that mutes the story-telling possibilities of it shouldnt happen. Everyone is magic... destroys 50% of the conflicts in the universe... and for a franchise, an expansive and growing universe... you need these story-telling engines... as many as possible, and it needs to be set up to create more story-telling possibilities as it goes on. For every new story told, there should be three more that are possible because of it (optimistically) if a story destroys more story-telling possibilities than it creates... then its not a franchise, its a one-shot film or novel. ralok (talk) 03:28, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
- sorry, ever since ME3 I have been utterly paranoid about story telling (not just games) ralok (talk) 03:42, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
Personally, I find the concept of one big bad single handedly manipulating the entire world both distasteful and trite. ----Isolationistmagi 04:06, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
- she doesnt have to be manipulating everything, just part of a series of events that caused everything. Similiar origins are okay in my opinion, as long as taking her down wont magically solve all the problems she caused... I would be fine with it. ralok (talk) 04:48, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
- to summarize... being the source of all evil, doesnt mean she has control over it... like an oak tree with man sablings grown from many acorns... I am too tired to be thinking metaphors.. .or is that a similie.. I have no idea anythink. ralok (talk) 05:18, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
Fen'Harel is the Maker. The Trickster of the Elvhen is the God of Men. The Old Gods are the Creators and Fade demons and spirits are the Forgotten Ones. Soulofshezarr (talk) 01:03, October 22, 2013 (UTC)
- I on other hand think that all deities are only products of imaginations and evil is an inherent part of personality of every sentient being. There is no deity and people are responsible for evil. I don't get why anyone her considers if some deities are the same, when they don't respect any religion in real world.78.8.149.9 (talk) 07:14, October 22, 2013 (UTC)StubbonrMageSlayer
- I'm a Brazilian-born, American-raised non-practicing Muslim and I don't (nor should anyone else) have to justify my personal beliefs to a random screename on a wikia dedicated to Dragon Age. Keep real world religion and politics the fuck out of here. Thank you. -- Soulofshezarr (talk) 17:12, October 23, 2013 (UTC)
- You can write whatever you want, there is no guarantie that you wrote truth about yourself.78.8.139.94 (talk) 17:28, October 23, 2013 (UTC)StubbornMageSlayer
- I'm a Brazilian-born, American-raised non-practicing Muslim and I don't (nor should anyone else) have to justify my personal beliefs to a random screename on a wikia dedicated to Dragon Age. Keep real world religion and politics the fuck out of here. Thank you. -- Soulofshezarr (talk) 17:12, October 23, 2013 (UTC)
- Should I make salaat this Jumma at my local mosque and upload a video? Or maybe I should recite Al Fatiha and record it for your amusement? LMAO, what cracks me up is the pathetic fact that you think I should prove something to you. -- Soulofshezarr (talk) 20:24, October 23, 2013 (UTC)
- Even if you recitated Al Fatiha, you could find more informations about Islam in internet. You can't proove or disproove anything about yourself, so can't I or anyone else. I just wanted to add some fun and I did it. YOur reaction was amusing to me.78.8.139.94 (talk) 20:26, October 23, 2013 (UTC)StubbornMageSlayer
It's an easy thing to blame all the troubles of the world, real or otherwise, on an abstract deity. It's a bit harder to accept that almost all the problems of the world are caused by simple human selfishness. 99.9% of suffering in the world is caused by greed or self-centeredness, in some form or another. The rest is earthquakes and disease. And though Dragon Age is fantasy, they've always taken a very realistic attitude to human behaviour. The problems of Thedas are caused mostly by people, with demons and darkspawn sometimes popping up to make a bad situation worse. But darkspawn don't make elves scrub their toilets or forcibly convert to their religion.
There's a great Calvin & Hobbes comic where Calvin asks Hobbes if he believes in the devil, "a supreme evil being dedicated to the temptation, corruption, and destruction of man." Hobbes just replies he doesn't think man needs the help. 13:07, June 8, 2014 (UTC)