Hey so I came up with my theory for the world and religions of Thedas. If you have not completed Dragon Age Inquisition or don't want spoilers stop here. Below is a list for facts and assumptions I am making.
Let's start with Facts: Flemeth is possessed by Mythal and works as her agent. Solas is Fen Harel or possessed by him. The Maker is separated from the world. The Golden City has become the Black City. Archdemons are actually Old Gods. The Elven Pantheon has those known as the Forgotten Ones. Tevinter sacked Arlathan and destroyed the Elven Culture Tevinter Magisters entered the Golden City and were cast out. Thus became the first darkspawn and began the Blights Fen Harel awoke from a slumber
Now for my assumptions: Drinking from the well of sorrows is like undergoing the Joining. Elven Pantheon and the Chantry are based on the same events Flemeth is Andraste. Eluvian are portals to the Fade and the Black City. The Fade and the Real World once coincided There is more than one Well of Sorrows The Well of Sorrows is the original Joining.
Ok so with those out of the way, I will discuss my theory. I believe the events of the Chantry and Elven Pantheon are actually one and the same. We'll start with Elgar'nan and Mythal, the father and mother of Elven gods, otherwise known as the Creator Gods. Their opposites were known as the Forgotten Ones, Elven gods who could not create. Now, in their Dalish accounts, the Great Betrayal caused by Fen Harel led to the banishment of both the Creator Gods and the Forgotten Ones. Now this next part is the Chantry side of my assumption. The Maker banished the Old Ones for the First Sin, which was turning the people from his worship. Thus, the Old ones were sent underground and buried. With those backgrounds set up, my chronology of events comes together. For one, Elgar'nan and the Creator Gods are the Maker. They grew angry that the Old Ones were stealing worship from them. (This next part I am still working out and is just a working theory) Then the Great Betrayal occurs. Fen Harel separates the Gods using the Eluvians. As Eluvians are portals to and from the fade and other locations, Fen Harel convinces the Creator Gods to cast out the Forgotten Ones and separate the Fade from the Real World. Then using Eluvians as bridges, still allow access to the worlds. In doing so, he wants to trap the Forgotten Ones in the Fade and only able to be reached through their specific Eluvian which was then sent underground and hidden. But the Forgotten Ones were not alone as they had followers and worshippers who could be contacted through their dreams. And so the Forgotten Ones taught their followers magic in order to seek revenge upon their fellow gods. And they did this through Wells of Sorrows. And thus the creation of the Tevinter Magisters and their Imperium. Using their new found knowledge, they invaded the Elven kingdoms and sacked Arlathan, home of the Creator Gods. Destroying their enemy, The Tevinter attempted to usurp the throne, but they could not defeat Elgar'nan and Mythal and thus were cast out and transformed in to the darkspawn. And unable to achieve their intial goal, they solely work on releasing their gods to avenge their defeat. But now, having seen their Golden City of Arlathan destroyed and transformed into a Black City of Destruction, Elgar'nan, distraught, ripped the city from the real world and into the Fade. And that is when Fen Harel completed his betrayal and destroyed the Eluvian connecting the City to the world. Thus, separating the Maker from his people. However, Mythal, clever enough, survived and remained in the real world. But needed a host, and thus struck a deal with Flemeth. In teaching her the knowledge of the ancients, Mythal sought justice and a way to get Elgar'nan back. Flemeth acted as her agent and worked through history. Flemeth then took on the name of Andraste and found a way to at least contact Elgar'nan. Thus Flemeth, vessel of Mythal, also became the wife of the Maker/ Elgarnan.
Still a working theory but the best I could come up with so far. Would love to hear your thoughts.
I was wondering if anyone considered the relation of the note in Haven about Andraste's dog, and the Dread Wolf? It would seem it was mentioned for a reason, perhaps as more proof that Flemeth or some Elven god is Andraste? 99.161.190.77 (talk) 23:32, November 29, 2014 (UTC)
Now I see a few flaws with your theory. For one thing you propose that the Maker is/are two gods and that Arlathan, which was a quite physical city (located in eastern Tevinter/northen Antiva) actually existed in the fade. "the Maker" cast out the Old Gods but there is no account of the creators "casting out" the Forgotten Ones. The well of sorrows could be seen as a joining, that is true, but as high priest of Mythal. If we are to combine the chantry with the elven pantheon then I would say that Fen'Harel is the Maker (in a sense) because just as the Old Gods were sealed of underground so were the Forgotten Ones (in "the abyss" which seems quite a good likeness). The creators however were sealed of "in the Heavens" which could be the Fade or the Golden City (I admit that that part still has a plot hole because of the whole "Black City" thing but I will get to that). With that in mind Fen'Harel poses as Dumat, leader of the Forgotten Ones (no one remember the Forgotten Ones names, hence the name), to the humans, teching them all they needed to defeat and enslave the elves (whom he hated) and then to assault the Golden City, first corrupting the creators with their taint and then the Forgotten Ones when they returned: all his enemies destroyed in a single glorious strike! Now with Flemeth being Mythal, well apparently she was betrayed by someone else before the grand treachery, killing her and leaving her soul to wander the world until she found Flemeth. Now I would not say that Flemeth was Andraste because Andraste would logically preach the elven faith if she was but I think that she has some significance somehow, things like the urn indicate that she is significant somehow. Now why The Forgotten Ones/Old Gods act like they do, seemingly "calling" the darkspawn to come and taint them is beyond me but I think that they think that this would free them, unknowing of the cost (They can not know that much down there can they?) but this feels very unsatisfactory. My greatest problem however is Solas because I do not know how much we should trust how that, in lack of better words, elf said or acted. Id most of it was true then, if it was at least moderately true then he does not hate elves but dislikes the Imperium (thus negating my point about him using it to destroy the elves). Caspoi (talk) 00:07, November 30, 2014 (UTC)
- I do like their theory. It's actually well thought out, and aims to make it speculative. But you mentioned Andraste's significance. It got me thinking, she did lead an Elven army didn't she? This links back to how she may have a link with the Elves themselves. It wouldn't surprise me if the Maker and the Elven gods had a greater connection. Or, if that's false, Fen'Harel may have tricked Andraste into leading a rebellion against the humans of Tevinter, in an act of revenge, but this ultimately failed, and he went into slumber after this, or that's false and Fen's been asleep for a longer time than that.But the idea that Fen'Harel was 'acting' as the maker is really interesting, but far-fetched in my opinion. Andraste may have been his tool in a way. I doubt this is true, and i'd argue against it as i'm making a link where there may not be one.
19:04, December 3, 2014 (UTC)
The Archdemons being Old Gods is NOT a fact. It's pure speculation and never proven true. That is what Thefosians believe, just as they believe Andraste was the Bride of the Maker, which is also not proven to be true. The Archdemons could simply be tainted giant dragons. That's all.
It's also pure speculation that the Darkspawn were the first Magisters to enter the Golden City. This is never proven, and argued by other races in Thedas. We do not know the true origin of the darkspawn.
The Eluvians do not lead to the Fade, but in fact lead to a completely different realm ideal for elves. 75.163.104.69 (talk) 15:49, December 3, 2014 (UTC)
- While we can not prove that the Old Gods really were "Gods" all Grey Warden research, the Calling etc. say that the archdemons indeed are Old Gods and not simply ordinary High Dragons.
- Corypheous does prove that the origin of the darkspawn are the magisters who breached the Golden City. If he doesn't what then?
- The Eluvians lead to the "Crossroads" specifically, which is part of the Fade and yet not. Caspoi (talk) 16:55, December 3, 2014 (UTC)
Not sure how Mythal and Elgar'nan could be the Maker since even though they're called creator gods it was never said they created the world itself, they just worked with something somebody else had made. I still say there's some sort of Maker-like being at the heart of this which is responsible for the creation of everything in the DA universe, they just might not be the same as Chantry doctrine describes them. 
BOLTMAN FOREVER 21:23, December 3, 2014 (UTC)
You should check out the banter between Cassandra/Solas and Cole/Solas.
http://youtu.be/Cdv4bcxHf0E
http://youtu.be/UTWyeXMsBpM
8:51 in the first video and 4:26 in the second video are pretty interesting! --95.90.237.33 (talk) 21:11, December 4, 2014 (UTC)
There's something to this theory. Maybe if Flemeth wasn't Andraste, Mythal may have been. There was a codex entry about Andraste in Haven that stated that she had daughters, then they only had daughters, and they only had daughters...which is reminiscent of the mythology behind Flemeth. I definitely think there's a connection there. 199.20.36.1 (talk) 01:44, December 5, 2014 (UTC)
In light of new dlc and events, it is shown that Solas divided up the worlds of Thedas, made of from titans by the Elven Gods and The Fade which was their home. Now Morrigan said that the Eluvian Halls were not the fade but a place like it, very close. Solas made the veil to seperate the two worlds. Casting The Forgotten Ones into the "abyss" which is underground and leaving the Elven Gods in the Golden City or Black City (After Tevinter). Solas also states he had no clue how it would affect the Elven peoples but it was his only choice. Now seeing all this leads me to beleive that perhaps The Old Gods who become Archdemons are in fact the Elven Gods of old. Look at it this way; Solas has said he will do anything to bring back the old Eleven peoples. But, ge doesn't realize this won't be possible. Most of them are already dead. So there are seven old gods, this is what the Tevinter really must have found in the "Black City." But when Solas left it it was Golden. The Elven Gods warred amongst one another any way, being petty and selfish. After the "death" of Mythal and disconnection from the physical realm one can only assume this lead downwards and the became corrupted and spiteful. Now come in the Tevinter Magister preists who worship their Gods. They break into the Fade with old elven magic, the same elven magic solas used to lock them up, and find not seven thrones, but nine. And what happens? They become pissed of course. There shouldnt be nine. Only seven. The Elven Gods, corrupt and evil now escape the black city and try to join the physical world. As Archdemons. The Tevinter, pridefull and stubborn as they are, claim the seven "old gods" were gone and the city was empty but only because they dont know the truth. Those seven tevinter who went in never came back, because as soon as they entered the black city they too became corrupt as the first darkspawn. Then the "old gods" begin to corrupt the world with darkspawn from pure hatred of anything and everything. The only thing to support my theory? Mythal is in Flemmeth, who raises Morrigan to have Kiernan as host for one of these "old god" souls. She is also in leag with Solas, the dread wolf. They are trying to collect these souls to bring them back. To resserect them. Four are dead already so only three remained after the fifth blight, when the old god child (kiernan) is concieved. Solas and Mythal are trying to bring back the Elven gods and the peoples. The viel is what made elves no longer immortal and is what made The Old God/ Elven Gods become archdemons so Solas is trying to fix it. As for the Chantry and the Maker. Its all bullshit. I mean even the game creator dropped a hint that the purpose is faith even in the unseen. I think that it is what the humans did after the Tevinter mages found out that their orriginal gods didnt exist and that their plan failed. So humans made a story about how the Maker made them but turned away until they get favor. Covienient for the fact that the maker never does jack shit, no? No the maker does not exist and the Chantry was created out of fear and still acts out of fear. Now. As for dwarves. Dwarves and humans both I believe were created from thos Forgotten Ones who could also be the Forbidden Ones. I think the Forgotten ones could create. The abyss was the center of all of Thedas. Their, they first created humans, who had an affinity for magic and war to combat what The Elven Gods created... Elves. Humans were made out of spite of the Elevn Gods. But. Humans could become possessed by demons from the fade, and gained magic beyond what the intended purpose of Forgotten Ones intended, and so came Dwarves. Created from the "stone" and given no ability to use magic what so ever. They could even mine lyrium, which oozed magic and was some what harmful to non magic humans. The Forgotten Ones became the Forbbiden Ones over time as they were left banished among the phyiscal and some even killed (D.A. 2 and D.A:I) by their own creations. Four Forgotten ones and Four Forbidden Ones. Seven Old Gods and Seven remaining Elven Gods. One Solas and One Maker. One Mythal and one Andraste. The numbers add up. Perfectly. This is just my theory though.
Maybe what has happened is that the mythology of the early Andrastians and the Elves who rebelled with them has been mixed together (in a similar way to how religious mythologies in the real world often have a fair bit of overlap). Maybe Solas and Mythal were important religious figures in the mythology of the Elves enslaved by Tevinter (because Solas was an important (god-like) leader immediately before the fall of the Elves and he no doubt would have sought to maintain the devotion and respect they felt towards Mythal) and maybe the similarities between Andraste and Mythal (both loving,just, mother-figures to their people) and Solas and the maker (Solas literally made Thedas what it is now) caused the mythologies of human and elven slaves to get mixed together (with this process continuing through the early history of the Chantry). Additionally, it seems possible that Solas would have taken a makerish role in the immediate aftermath of creating the veil, trying to guide people on how to live in the new world he had created, but then got fed up of everybody and went to sleep (completely consistent with his character).
Basically, what I'm saying is that it'd make sense to me if the elves who rebelled with Andraste believed a creation story similar to the one put forward by the Chantry (which was influenced by the elven story). With the real world analogues, it seems like something this writing team would do. That said, I think they probably intend Andraste to be a real figure who all this stuff has latched onto throughout history.--80.176.135.1 (talk) 05:08, October 23, 2015 (UTC)
It's tempting to think that the Evanuris (elven mage-lords of incredible power erroneously worshipped as gods) and the the Old Gods of Tevinter are one and the same; I had the same thought when I did the math - nine Evanuris minus Mythal and Fen'Harel leaving seven complete assholes too dangerous to allow freedom. If memory serves, though, Solas himself said that there's no connection between the Evanuris and the Old Gods, and I'm inclined to believe him, because it seems to me that he rarely, if ever, lies outright.
What interests me is that, apparently, Solas/Fen'Harel moonlights as the Maker in the Chant.
---After reading the history & giving it some thought I think you may br right or partially right
I think after solas created the veil & trapped them in fade they thought of a way to return & to get their revenge on solas & the elves,they found their solution in the new race which they haden't known before"the human",they found a way to communicate with them ,teach them magic especially blood magic in hope they would gain enough power to liberate them,they also made them exact their revenge on elves by destroying their cities & turning them slaves
− when the ancient magisters managed to enter the fade & the black city where they had been imprisoned ,they tried to take over their bodies "like Mythal & Flemeth " but they failed (perhaps because the magisters resisted as they weren't the obedient servants they though they would be,perhaps because they unlike mythal didn't understand human physiology well or for some other reason ) but although they didn't take control of the magisters body they managed to transfer their essence into them & then sought to transfer it to other weaker individual in hope they would be able to fully control them or at least to make them take them to the bodies they knew they would control"the dragons"
− − & to explain the dragon thing:they must have felt very angry & jealous of Mythal & her power to shapeshift into dragon so they sought to replicate that in their own way so they either tamed & controlled 7 chosen dragon or created them so that they can transfer their essence into them if needed & hid the dragons deep in the deep roads to keep them secret from Mythal & Solas
− − whatever happened after that their plan didn't work well & part of their essence got lost/suppressed leaving only their desire of revenge & destruction of anyone who oppose them(perhaps due to long stay in the fade they became like spirits & demons when the former would turn into the later)
− − & I think I identified which one of elven pantheon is which of the old gods:
Dumat>>Dirthamen
Zazikel>>Elgar'nan
Toth>>Sylaise
Andoral>>Andruil
Urthemiel>>Ghilan'nain
Razikale>>June
Lusacan>>Falon'Din
There's a lot of interesting consideration, here. However, I think the Evanuris/Old God allusion is probably a red herring or non-starter. The Evanuris or Forgotten Ones (it's implied to be the latter) may have taught the Neromenians blood magic, however. The first human blood mage from legend was a Dreamer, which would have allowed him to make contact with the banished deities in the first place. Also, there are theories in game which suggest that the elves were the ones to teach it to the Tevinters (but this could just be propaganda).
In the constellation descriptions, Old Gods are associated with constellations and symbols that are not draconic in shape - this leads me to believe that the appellation of draconic features onto the Old Gods was caused by the First Blight. After the Blight occurred, the Gods fell silent - and to connect the blasphemy of men entering the Golden City, the silence of the Gods, and the Archdemon together makes sense.
To the original Dreamers of the Neromenians, they may have appeared in other forms - much as how the Alamarri and other animistic faiths represent their Spirit-Gods. This does bring the question of what the Archdemons are - they are implied to have great power and intelligence, and Mythal is using them to restore the power she lost after her murder. I don't think there's enough information to speculate to far on what Archdemons are for certain, however (personally, I think the secret is in the name).
I like the idea of Solas, through cosmic happenstance and misunderstanding, being represented as the Maker (he would find it dreadful). I also like the idea of a cosmic back-and-forth between the Evanuris/Forgotten Ones and Solas in the form of the enslavement of Arlathan (it's important to note that the Tevinters didn't destroy Arlathan, the Veil did - they only picked up the pieces), and Solas striking back with the great slave rebellion. However, I don't think it's likely.
More than likely, Andraste was a mage, possibly even a Dreamer, and in her time of desperation and through the rituals of cleansing she would use to contact the Alamarri spirit-gods, she attracted a powerful spirit of Faith who told her what she needed to hear to begin her rebellion (the Seeker Vigil, minus the being made Tranquil). The spirit of Faith conformed to her perceptions and did what faith does best, inspired her to action. Now, magic can't be used to describe the miraculous nature of the Exalted March; but, to be honest, each game displays well how a person from humble roots can gather allies and accomplish something great with the right sets of circumstances, and even with her supposed divine inspiration, Andraste could never take Minrathous physically.
A note on the Forgotten Ones - it's likely that they were demons/spirit gods that the elves worshipped before the rise of the Evanuris. It's said in Inquisition that the Evanuris banished the Forgotten Ones because they abandoned their followers in their time of need - and the timeline makes sense. Very powerful mage-priests take over for the decadent demon/spirit gods they use to worship. They are also implied to be the Forbidden Ones (plus a few extras).
A last note on the blasphemy of the Golden City. What it was originally isn't certain - whether it was created by the ancient elves or perhaps Spirits is uncertain. However, I think the Abyss is somehow associated with it being made black. The Abyss, in multiple religions throughout Thedas, is said to be the source of souls. Spirits don't seem to be sourced from the Abyss, however. It's also said that the Dark Spawn corruption is sourced from the Abyss. Also interesting, the Abyss is where the Forgotten Ones were banished too - and also what drove Andruil insane when she wandered there. So, I ask a question: could it be that it was the nature of mortal sources, being made in the Abyss, that caused the city to turn black and created the first Dark Spawn? 104.58.140.20 (talk) 05:03, May 19, 2016 (UTC)
- I used to think that the abyss was the Black City, but the Black City is more likely to be Arlathan, given what we've learned about the Evanuris and the creation of the Veil. The abyss is probably someplace beneath the Deep Roads. The world map in Descent for the last three areas is actually called the Uncharted Abyss. Given that the Old Gods were/are trapped underground and the Forgotten Ones were supposedly banished to the Abyss, it's possible that some (though not necessarily all) of them were/are the Old Gods.
- The Old Gods could also be just a rare kind of dragon, like a Great dragon only rarer, older, and/or more powerful. Perhaps they are simply another step in a dragon's life cycle, where High Dragons (and possibly Drakes) that live long enough become Great Dragons, which then become Old Gods. Or maybe they were just seven particularly powerful and intelligent Great Dragons.
- Note that that theory is not exclusive with the "Old Gods are Forgotten Ones" theory - they could easily be both. Personally, I believe that "Forgotten Ones" is a catch-all term that the Evanuris used for their enemies, which could have included beings like the Old Gods, the titans, abyss creatures, and even rogue elves like Solas and (maybe) Geldauran. Malvernis could have also be have been a Forgotten One, and he appears to have been either a humanoid spirit creature or ghost that can turn into a High Dragon, or a draconic creature than could assume a humanoid form.
- The one thing I don't think the Old Gods are is the Evanuris. Sure, seven is the number of the remaining Evanuris, but most of them are male. It also seems likely that the Evanuris would have been in Arlathan at the time of the creation of the Veil, which would mean they got trapped in the Golden/Black City. Since the taint and the Evanuris are basically the root cause for of Thedas's problems, it'd be pretty interesting if the turned out to be linked. Yes, it's likely that the taint comes from a corrupted titan, but isn't it possible that that titan became corrupted by contacting the Golden City, a la Cory and pals? Of course, it could be the reverse - maybe Arlathan was constructed using parts of a Titan which become corrupted somehow during the creation of the veil. Regardless, the Black City is a major source of the taint, even if it isn't the sole source of it. This could mean that the Evanuris are tainted, and since they are also dreamers, they could have easily tricked Cory and pals into thinking they were their Old Gods. Or perhaps they tricked the Old Gods themselves in the same way, hoping to use them to fool Cory and pals and then possess them in order to free themselves.
- But none of that works if the Evanuris are the Old Gods. One thing I've always wondered is why would the Old Gods want Cory and crew to enter the Golden City? It doesn't really make sense for them to taint their worshipers, knowing what would happen to them. It makes even less sense if they didn't know, since there'd be nothing in it for them if Cory and crew gained godlike power. But if it was really (or indirectly) something within the city that contacted them, it makes a whole lot more sense.
- In the Dalish tales, the Evanuris were trapped in the heavens by Fen'Harel and the Forgotten Ones were trapped in the abyss. Given that the heavens is almost certainty the fade, it's pretty hard to conclude that the fade is also the abyss. If that's the case, then what's the heavens? On the other hand we know for a fact that the Old Gods are/were trapped underground, and an abyss is generally something beneath a given place. Sure, the Dalish tales aren't 100% accurate, but there's got to be at least some truth to them, just as there is some truth to the Andrastian tale of the origin of the darkspawn. If the Evanuris are the Old Gods, then the Forgotten One need to be trapped somewhere other than underground (such as the fade). The spirit Malvernis was originally found underground, and his description more closely matches a Forgotten One than anything else. There's just too many signs pointing to the possibility of the fade being the heavens and the abyss being underground to reconcile the two.
- It's not impossible for the Evanuris to be the Old Gods, but given Solas's comment and all the other circumstantial evidence, it seems really unlikely. Silver Warden (talk) 22:30, May 19, 2016 (UTC)
- Honestly, I'm inclined to agree with you about the Golden/Black City being Arlathan. Solas notes that in ancient Elvhenan, domiciles could float in the air - and there seems to be a certain correlation between the Fade and Thedas' firmament. Thus, if Arlathan floated, it would be sealed away with the advent of the Veil.
- I think the Abyss and the Fade are tied together somehow. Solas says that the Fade is defined by location - perhaps the Abyss is the physical/Fade location of the underground of Thedas, formed as such when the Titans were struck down to form Thedas' current shape. There's the underground, and then perhaps a Cthonic section of the Fade that represents even rawer potentiality than the rest of the Fade - which primarily reflects the physical world and the location in which the viewer resides?
- As for the intent of the Old Gods in sending their magisters to the Golden City - I think this one stands up to Occam's razor; it seems likely that it was just pride/lust of power. But, if it was where the Evanuris remained, why would it be abandoned when Cory and bros visited? The Old Gods could be a lot of things - dragons, influenced or perhaps refined by Titans (which would explain why the Dark Spawn are drawn to them), or perhaps possessed dragons. Although, your theory that the Old Gods were just very ancient and powerful dragons is intriguing. Could it be that dragons were vastly different before the advent of the Veil than they were after? Perhaps the Veil stripped them of something like it stripped the elves of magic and immortality.
- Also, I think Malvernus was the sinner Elgar'nan punished for taking the form of the Divine.104.58.140.20 (talk) 07:20, May 20, 2016 (UTC)
- Dragons losing their intelligence in the same way dwarves lost their magic and elves lost their immortality - now that's an interesting theory. Though it would not explain how unintelligent dragons spoke to Cory and crew. Cory's shock at being unable to hear the Old Gods implies that he used to be able to, meaning something spoke to them before they entered the Golden City, whether it was the Old Gods, the Evanuris, or something else.
- Although Cory does say that the throne of heaven was empty, he also mentions that the place was filled with 'dead whispers'. Cole says that the Red Templars are listing to the whispers from behind a door that wants to be opened. So although Cory did not find the gods that he sought, the Black City was (and likely still is) filled with something.
- I'm not sure why you think Malvernis is the guy Elgar'nan punished. Not only does he seem too powerful to just have been a regular guy, he can still turn into a dragon. You'd think if Elgar'nan did anything to him it would be to strip him of that ability. Although Malvernis could have a Forgotten One and the guy Elgar'nan punished, which would make him a rogue elf like Solas and possibly Geldauran. Silver Warden (talk) 14:49, May 20, 2016 (UTC)
- Highly doubt this will be in anyway correct, but just wanted to put my own hypothesis on this to people who will appreciate it. My personal belief is that the Old Gods are the Evanuris reincarnated into a new form, namely that of dragons. Solas claims whatever plan the Evanuris had for the world would have destroyed it and Yavana in the Silent Grove reputedly says the blood of dragons is the blood of Thedas (or words to that effect). If the Evanuris sought to transmute themselves into dragons (similar to how certain Targaryen kings attempted the same in ASOIAF) perhaps to tap into that belief, that might give Solas the reason to destroy them fitting in with his claim that the Evanuris would have destroyed the world had he not intervened (as well as fitting into the suggestion in the Codex entry: Dragon Cults that the Old Gods were High Dragons of a power and magnitude far above the High Dragons of present-day Thedas, which would fit if they are the transmuted Evanuris still retaining their sentience as opposed to being just animals). The Black City was a prison where the Old Gods were banished by Solas and the calls in the minds of the Magisters to storm the Golden City were the transmuted Evanuris trying to convince weak-minded and powerhungry fools to set them free. I also like the idea Anders postulated in Legacy that the darkspawn are some 'failed creation of the Old Gods'; in their new tainted state, I consider the darkspawn were transmuted to serve as a weapon for the Old Gods/transmuted Evanuris to either transform the world into a form that matched their now tainted state, or simply just to destroy it as retribution for their captivity/ the desertion by their followers.
I highly doubt this theory will be proved correct and I look forward to seeing what is created for this; just wanted to add to the discussion of this part of the lore with like minded thinkers upon seeing this forum. Arthur88 (talk 17:10, May 28, 2016
- There are several problems with the Old Gods = Evanuris theory. First, Solas says the Old Gods and his people aren't connected and although he's been deceptive I don't think he's ever told us (the players) a direct lie. More importantly, Solas confirms that the Evanuris still exist and that destroying the veil would free them. Five of the Old Gods are dead. The other two are entombed underground, and will be awakened by the darkspawn eventually regardless of whether or not Solas succeeds. Thus, Solas would not need to make plans for the Evanuris - the darkspawn would take care of them.
- Finally, given Mythal's shapeshifting and body-hoping powers I think it's safe to assume that the Evanuris didn't need to transmute themselves into anything. They were ancient, powerful dreamer mages, shapeshifing was old hat to them.
- I know it's tempting to equate the Evanuris with the Old Gods since their numbers are the same, but it just doesn't make sense. There are too many differences between the two groups, and there are plenty of other plausible explains for what the Old Gods could be. Silver Warden (talk) 02:52, June 1, 2016 (UTC)
I don't think that the Evanuris and the Old Gods are the same thing or even related in some way. During some party banter, Solas mentions how he believes the Maker and Old Gods exist. The way he says it seems to imply that he thinks of them as either something akin to divine or at least quite special yet whenever he talked about the Evanuris even before Trespasser, he painted them as something not divine but petty and all that. If the Evanuris and the Old Gods were the same or somehow related then Solas wouldn't have talked about the Old Gods in the neutral or favorable manner that the party banter implies. I think the Old Gods are probably like the Avvar god, Hakkon Wintersbreath. Very powerful spirits either bound or possessing the bodies of High Dragons. 174.19.208.158 (talk) 23:06, June 3, 2016 (UTC)
- This makes a lot of sense, especially when you consider what Solas said about spirits/demons and people expectations of them. According to him, if people expect spirits to be demons, they will be demons. (I know that's an oversimplification, but there's no need to get into the specific of the spirit-to-demon transformation process here.) Well, the ancient Tevinters expected there to be Old Gods, so perhaps some of the spirits became those gods.
- Of course, this doesn't explain how the Old Gods became entombed or what their connection to the taint is, although a powerful spirit could easily communicate with a dreamer mage. Regardless, powerful spirits possessing powerful dragons is the most plausible explanation for the nature and existence of the Old Gods we have so far. We already know there are High Dragons and Great Dragons and we already know powerful spirits can possess them. We also know that dreamer mages can communicate with spirits and that spirits themselves are affected by people's expectations of them. Every other explanation I've heard either involves something that contradicts the lore or requires the existence of entities not yet found in the lore. Silver Warden (talk) 00:05, June 6, 2016 (UTC)