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Forums: Index > Lore DiscussionEastern Europe and their culture in DA
Note: This topic has been unedited for 4001 days. It is considered archived - the discussion is over. Do not continue it unless it really needs a response.

This is something I would like too see in Dragon Age, Eastern Europe and its cultures in Medieval times. Now while we already have dwarves with Slavic names and the Anderfells VERY loosely resemble medieval Russia with its hardened warriors, forests, winters and vast, devastated (by darkspawn) steppes. This would be a nice change from all the western European references as in Ferelden being England and Orlais being France. It would also give a suitable reason to expand the world beyond Thedas to the east or somewhere. A few countries ruled by Princes that have, for example, old Russian names like Ruthenia. It would also be interesting, because that could involve new magic, religion, ideals, beasts and so on. Oh, and why I would like to see this is, because I love eastern European history and it would be awesome to see it adapted to Dragon Age form. Any thoughts on my ideas and improvements are welcome. Feteraco (talk) 13:06, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

I'm eastern European, but i don't see how could this work. What did we have in the medieval times? Peasants, mud, and sturdy lifestyles. The hungarians had good horse archers, and poland had good light cavarly. The line ends there. Even religion was Christian like everywhere. Hungarians were nomads before the 10th century, but Nomads tend to cover a lot of ground, and would be known on many part of the continet. so far, no mention of such tribes have happened in Thedas, therefore it wouldn't fit in to lore. There are barbaric tribes in the southern wildlands, so you could say romanians are kinda referenced to... 87.97.89.230 (talk) 13:37, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
Pssst. Dude. You are forgetting the most awesome nation of medieval Eastern Europe, namely the Czech (although the awesomeness overlaps with Renaissance period). They contributed to the history such awesome things like the Hussites, Jan Žižka and defenestrations of Prague (note the plural). I'd say the Hussite wars could be a perfect inspiration for a brutal, unromanticized warfare setting alone, but lets be realists here - these things require research, and EA would never spare resources for such a thing. Dorquemada (talk) 17:38, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
Huh, really didn't expect anyone to come up with this :o --Ygrain (talk) 09:47, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
Your forgetting the people of Rus (Russians) who were ruled by the descendants of Rurik, a Varangian prince and/or a Swedish viking. Rurik and his son Igor conquered much of the modern day European Russia. We could have something like that happen in Dragon Age. Although the Qunari kinda did something like that, but they are based on the Ottomans, atleast the Wiki says so. And for almost 200 years Kiev, the kingdom Igor created, was the largest and wealthiest in the known eastern part of the world. It just seems (to me atleast) that the people in America, who create these fantasy games often forgot that Medieval times didn't happen only in Western Europe and Middle-East/Africa. The Rus also faced the greatest threat of Medieval time (The Mongols) alone and eventually fought them off. That could also be something to see in the Dragon Age universe. Hmh, I guess we will see what they do with this franchise in the future. Feteraco (talk) 16:50, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

It was mention on Forum:Asian inspiration in Dragon Age? that Dwarven Goverment is based on Medivial Polish goverment. Wojech Ivo sounds Slavic. I see another insiration King Calhenad united several tribes to create own country like Mieszko the 1st. They both wanted their countrymen to be more civilised, so they brougth faith in one god to their countries. Grey Wardnes rule Anderfels like Teutonic Knights ruled Northen Poland in 15th century.78.8.149.42 (talk) 15:47, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Not to derail this, because you are talking about Europe's influences on DA, I still think The Free Marches are America. Konous (talk) 18:09, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

They bare no resemblance to America. As former Tevinter cities they resemble the independent city-states of the Italian peninsula in the middle ages; Naples, Venice and Florence for example. Alexsau1991 (talk page) File:Goddammit.svg 19:02, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
You're correct Alexsau1991. Whole Thedas was once Tevinter based on Roman Empire. The Imperium we know is now more similar to Byzantine Empire and even writers of the game claimed this. Early American lands were colonies of various countries, after they gained independece they united quickly. Free Marches are really more similar Italian lands, consant wars, no central goverment. I once compared Free Marches to Ancient Greece beacuse of constant wars, but you're more correct that's more based on Italian lands. In real world Italy were united after 1300 years, 7 centuries before DA2 lord of Starkheaven tried to conquer whole Free Marches and failed because he choosed wrong allies, Tevinter. Nevarra was once part of Free Marches, generations of conquers created Nevarra, rest of Free Marches protected themselves. Germany counquered a lot of Italy in 1300 years.78.8.149.42 (talk) 19:48, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
See, but here's the thing, the game itself has a lot of Anachronastic features. For instance, Alistair being akin to King Arthur, when the Exalted Marches (The Crusades) have already happened. I'm pretty sure in the lore of our Fabled Arthurian legends, the Crusades came afterwards.
The Free Marches are a bunch of loose, a BUNCH, of loosely tied city states, I'm pretty sure there's more than just three. And yeah, while Tevinter may be based around Rome, The Free Marches are NOT anything like Venice, or Florence. What we see of Kirkwall is a melting pot society, made up of dozens of refugees from across Thedas. It also has an absurd amount of political turmoil caused by fundamentalist religious fanatics, reaching an ever increasing boiling point.
Guess what? There's a place that has all those features: America. Konous (talk) 02:46, April 10, 2013 (UTC)
Well, the only refugee group we see in Kirkwall are the Fereldans. We do see Krikwall at least as a meeting place of different cultures, but apart from the Fereldans those people seem to be there because they are from the nations that ruled Kirkwall in the past. Which is actually very pre-unification Italy. But having said that, one maybe shouldn't read too many allegories into the world of Thedas.
Also, I fail to see how Alistair is in any way akin to the legendary King Arthur. And even if he is, this bring us back to not being too allegorical; there's no reason why the "crusades" of the DA universe could not happen before the DA King Arthur. -- Gissur the Sailor (talk) 19:56, April 10, 2013 (UTC)
Exactly my point, which is why America could exist amidst all these European based Nations, the time line of DA doesn't follow ours, so there's no reason that The Free Marches couldn't be a parallel for America.
I'd say the other reason why Kirkwall has American ties is the fact that it's the city of chains, built on slaves, kind of a big deal to the old US of A, even today. Not saying European countries didn't have slaves, all of them did, but America's ties to slavery lasted a lot longer than the other European nations of the world, and the image of it still haunts it. It was really the "FREE MARCHERS UNITE!" Poster that started it out. It reminded me of the anti-Immigration movements from the 1900's in the Industrial Era. As to Fereldan's being the only refugees...wouldn't the Qunari count, up until the actual M/T war erupted?
As to Alistair being Arthur equivalent, it's there, and there's forums and FORUMS about it all over the wiki, particularly his relationship to Morrigan potentially being his half sister, but that's another can of beans.
And I don't know, I agree, arguing the allegory aspects of a video game is a little problematic and kind of silly, but hey, this is the Internet, so why not take it full tilt? I mean, I was always interested in how much the developers worked old world lore into the games, I just never saw Italian in any of the Kirkwallers. Who knows though, could be totally wrong on this. Stranger things have happened. Konous (talk) 02:44, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
The USA is not the closest allegory to the Free Marches- not by a long shot. Unlike the Free Marches, we are not, in fact, a 'loose confederation of states', nor do we only band together for mutual benefit. The US has a centralised governmental system that parcels out responsibilities to the states- federal, and then state. The Free Marches are essentially a group of nation states, or city states, with no actual overarching 'federal' system. If you're looking for something closer to that, you'd be better off looking at old tribes, old Italy, or even a lot of pre-Renaissance Europe, wherein many countries we recognise today were fractured into small parcels between princes. Landers Edge (talk) 03:02, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
I agree it has a centralized government now, but before the Civil War it was very much a LOOSE confederation of states. Virginians considered themselves Virginians first, then their loyalty to the country of America as a whole came next. The same was true of pretty much all the states before the Civil War. Konous (talk) 03:39, April 11, 2013 (UTC)T
And people from Paris might consider themselves Parisians before they're French, but... they're still French citizens who happens to live in a particular French region. The USA has pretty much always had an overarching federal system that the Free Marches completely and utterly lack. They're all 100% independent, gov't and rules wise. It's really not the same thing. Again, look to pre-1900's Italy or older tribes pretty much anywhere for a much more logical and realistic example. Landers Edge (talk) 04:08, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
I think the evidence you've shown is good, but there's still something about it that bothers me. The complete lack of accent in the Free Marchers. Normally this wouldn't be a big deal, but none of them have even a vague Italian accent. Not one. Normally this might not be so weird except...look at how DA treats the Orleasians and their accents. Pretty French if you ask me. The voice acting in Kirkwall though sounded distinctly American to me. And while Parisians might have considered themselves Parisians first, Virginia and the various states were a lot bigger than the regions of Paris and the what not. They could have actually been justified to be mini countries in the sense that I thought the Free Marches conveyed the various city states were.
Truly, though, I find this idea of it being Pre-Italy, Italy to be interesting because it does finally fix that question in my head of "Seriously who the hell are the Free Marchers anyway?" It also helps to solidify the idea that Tevinter is closer to the Byzantine Empire, and not just Rome post Jesus. Konous (talk) 04:39, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
A while ago now, and as you now accept the similarities with the pre-unified Italy comparison I made I won't explain my reasoning. When considering the the similarities we look at Orlais and Fereldon first - France and England, both culturally in game as well as the accent, then it is presumed that this be carried through with all nations. Nevara is said to be (in part at least) based on Prussia, though they haven't gone with a German accent, the actress who played Cassandra was British (English). The Elves are said to be inspired by the Jews, yet they are played by the Welsh - (also British). Also worth pointing out that Starkhaven seems to have a Scottish (also British) accent, yet bares little or no similarity to Scotland.
I believe that they choose mainly British accents, because to an American audience they sound different enough to fit into a fantasy environment, while would not become difficult to understand - as with the Orlisian accent (I personally do not find it difficult to understand, but it does get irritating at times). There's an article here addressing why fantasy worlds nearly always use British accents that you might like to read. Alexsau1991 (talk page) File:Goddammit.svg 16:40, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, the very blatantly "This is what Americans think french sounds like..." aspect to the Orleasians was a little ridiculous, but then again, what about dear old Zevran? I mean, his Spanish is quite the same I feel. I just think DA needs to be more consistent about these accents, and maybe add stronger emphasis to who these countries are supposed to be. I mean...is Rivain supposed to be Romania? The Wiki says that it's Spain equivalent but that just doesn't make sense with Antiva. I really want, no I NEED, more definitive information on these countries. I want to do a map by map comparison of the locations of these countries. Konous (talk) 18:11, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

With regards to the dwarves, they do have some slavic-sounding names, but there are many clearly Scandinavian names (Sigrun, Hugin, Dagna) and even a few Finnish names (Helmi, Jukka). -- Gissur the Sailor (talk) 18:58, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

"hardened warriors, forests, winters." How does that automatically make the Anderfels based on Russia? Those geographic and cultural traits aren't exclusive to Russia, since other countries like Poland, Ukraine, Northern Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, and others also had harsh winters, dense forests and hardened warriors. As David Gaider said in the wiki The Anders and Anderfels are based on German and Visigoth culture. Geographic names in Anderfels are mostly based on German with lots of references to mountains. "Anderfels" would roughly translate as 'other rock' and "Weisshaupt" as 'white head', or more idiomatically 'white peak'. "Hossberg" means 'Hoss Mountain or Hill'. "Lattenfluss" could be translated as 'Planks River' and might be a reference to transporting lumber downstream. "Kassel" is the name of an actual major city in central Germany and "Nordbotten" the Swedish name for a region of Finland that roughly means northern flatlands. However, locations like Tallz, Laysh, and Merdaine have no similarity to any Germanic language.

Anders relationship with the Grey Wardens is also inspired by The State Of The Teutonic Order, or Ordenstaat, whose borders comprised the modern countries of Estonia, Germany, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, part of Russia and Sweden. This was a crusader state formed and governed by the Teutonic Knights, and this parallels the Grey Wardens because although the Anders have a King, many Anders look on the Wardens as the real rulers. --JordanHawker (talk) 02:23, April 11, 2013 (UTC) JordanHawker

I would not worry about the names or where they are located because you know if Bio-Ware keeps doing what they did in the Mass Effect Series and Dragon Age 2, you they will just screw it up anyways.--Merlinpendragon (talk) 05:11, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

I doubt there is much room to add an Easter European-based culture to DA. If you want a game heavily inspired by Slavic culture, go Witcher. It's got all kinds of Polish-like medieval feel and whatnot. And I have to disagree about there not being much to draw upon. Polish culture and legends are plenty on its own, just as rich as any other folklore culture, and quite alien to the West, to boot. Especially back from pre-Christian era of Poland, gods like Svetovid with four heads looking into every corner of the world, or striga and other monsters (again, present in the Witcher), the legend of how the founders of Poland, Russia and Czech were brothers. It's not just accents and heavy drinking. Henio0 (talk) 08:12, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

Some compared dwarven goverment to Polish one - corrupt and incompetent nobles rule and ruin last lands they have.156.17.71.249 (talk) 08:15, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
More like nobles with too much power. Right before it all fell apart with the Partitions of Poland, the king tried to make everybody happy and that's just not how the world works. The nobles got greedy and mad with power (what with a whole meeting lasting days could be cancelled because one guy said "veto"). Not all of them were like that, though. Some, say like Jan Zamoyski, were smart people who improved the life of their subjects. Anyway, I agree that the dwarven politics are somewhat based on Polish ones of like 16th century or so. And definitely the names are based on Polish names, but pronouncation is all English. Henio0 (talk) 08:29, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

I should apologize to everyone out there for being upset with Bio-Ware and then posting a negative comment. I am just upset with the FACT that Bio-Ware whom says they follow a very strict story line, when in fact they have screwed up some of the very basic story line. In Dragon Age 2 Aveline Vallen is married to a Templar, but in Dragon age Redemption the Templar Cairn tells Tallis that Templars can not marry. That's just one of the many story lines that Bio-Ware has not followed correctly. I would like to say the question of involving more Eastern European Names into the game is a very good one. But you know if Bio-Ware has anything to do with the games structure, specifically David Gaider, and no I am not just picking on him but I have read his Novels and he is no R.A. Salvator or Steven King. Look Dragon Age Origins was an excellent game, well thought out and designed, but the biggest mistake they made in creating Dragon Age 2 was not allowing the game player to carry over there Warden into Dragon Age 2, and not taking there time in creating it. They rushed it to production and then did not provide much in the way of Down Loadable Content like they did in Dragon Age Origins. In the next installment of Dragon Age 3 I hope one the take there time in the design and production of the game. I was disappointed to find out that we as players where once again being restricted bye what we will be able to play for a Character. At this point from what I have read it looks like we will either be a mage or some kind of templar, I was hoping it would be like it was in Dragon Age Origins and we could choose our Character, Race and Class. I was hoping that in possibly in talking about incorporating Eastern European Names and Language, that it might be more like German, Romany, or Hungarian. Maybe they could make more of the Qunari Language, maybe they could incorporate some Turkish, or Mongolian Language into Dragon Age 3. But I say again if Bio-Ware, Electronic Arts, wants to make a good game this time and avoid the mistakes of Dragon Age 2, the they will do a few things different this time. Then first they should be consistent and follow a story line through, take the time to design a game where caves, buildings, and dungeons are not reused over and over. Granted we are going to be limited on what we can be, but they should allow us to create a background similar to the way we did in Dragon Age Origins. They should also allow us to multi-class such rogue-mage or rogue-warrior. Most importantly the choices that we made in Dragon Age Origins and Dragon Age 2 should mean something in Dragon Age 3.--Merlinpendragon (talk) 09:08, April 12, 2013 (UTC)

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