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So with the Dragon Age Keep's release we have some quests, some of them even side quests, which are taken into account in the Keep because they affect the world state and their outcome is based on the player's decisions.

I think we could use an icon at the top of the quest page to mark that a particular quest is involved with DA Keep. Furthermore, while hovering the mouse over the symbol, we receive more information about what this symbol is about. What do you guys think?

Example Viktoria Landers 17:05, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

It is entirely possible that some of the choices you can make in the Keep will not have any effect in the next game, and is just to make sure that people won't feel as if their small choices went completely ignored. I think, if we consider such a a change, it should be added once we know what choices have a lasting effect or not. However, I don't really support the idea of this being added. Let's look at it this way, would we add on articles that some DAO choices have a lasting effect on DA2's story? This would be pretty much the same - putting it on articles that this choice has a lasting effect in DAI. I don't believe just because there's the Keep to make these choices it's any different, and in my opinion most of the Keep related things (if not all) should belong to their respective articles (both the already existing and planned ones). --Margerard 17:41, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

Here are my thoughts on the proposal. If this goes through, Keep will need to be checked every so often for new quests. As new quest decisions are added, the corresponding wiki article will have to be updated. This might prove convenient if all these quests could be somehow categorized under "Decisions Reflected in Keep", because that way people who want to update their tapestries won't have to check through every single option, they can just come here for the info. The downside is that some editors will have to keep a close eye on any new changes. It's possible we might miss something.

As for what the icon states when you mouse_over it, I think it should say, "The decisions in this quest are reflected in Keep". It should not say anything about the long-lasting impacts, because not every Keep choice has long-lasting impacts. Some choices are just there to be represented for inclusion's sake. Some choices won't ever be mentioned again, but they are there just in case BioWare wants to do something with the story of those particular choices.

Regarding placement of the icon, I know it looks cool at the top of the page, but I think it should be placed elsewhere. Inside the article "table", I guess it's called, where the picture is, it shows where the quest appeared. I think having just the text of it appearing in the main game, and then under that in Keep, would be appropriate (not the icon, just the "Keep" text). Then the icon can go somewhere around where we place trivia. Before trivia perhaps? And that should be it's own section. Now, in this section you can have the icon at the beginning of it. The section can describe where in the tapestry this quest is located. In Burkel's case, it's located under Origins: A Paragon of Her Kind. You could also have the Keep's description and question, but then again they could change the Keep at any time. Plus, not all Keep messages are factually accurate. So I would leave that out.

Lastly, I would add a Keep category to the wiki (if this hasn't been done already), and then each quest that is reflected in Keep should have that category added to it so that people can just search the category and see all the Keep choices that are available.

So overall I am in favor of an icon being added, I would just prefer it be placed in it's own section, and perhaps have the Keep title included in the space informing as to where this quest appears. If that isn't the purpose of that descriptor then fine. But I think having a section above trivia indicating that a quest is shown in Keep would be good, and the icon should go in there. Also, a Keep category would be good so we can add that category to the quests that are reflected in Keep. Believe it! (talk) 17:51, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

Reading the suggestions above, I'm still in favor of not having any indication of the Keep on the article, since I still think it'd be as if we put it on DAO articles that these are reflected in DA2, but I think a category sounds like a good idea. --Margerard 18:02, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

I'm against it. It's putting too much emphasis on quests that might actually not having any lasting effect, as pointed out above. And, as Margerard says, we don't do this for Origins and DA2, so I don't think the keep should be treated differently. We also don't notate when things in the books or movies have a lasting impact on future things. And in this case, we don't even know what the impact is actually going to be, if any. A category would be fine. --Kelcat Talk 20:29, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Kelcat. We're not sure that the impact is in the game so it is too soon to tell if it is essential information or clutter on the article. I propose that we work on a Dragon Age Keep article that talks about the choices and provides context in that article. That way we do not have to retroactively create more work and the information is contained in a single page. As you can easily change your choices in Dragon Age Keep, it is much less important that a player gets the choice "right" in the playthrough. Margerard has been working on the Keep's choices and I believe that they will meet our needs for the Keep's articles.
I do not want to set a new precedence for "popup" like headers in an article. Let's keep all that information for the Keep in one single article. -- tierrie talk contr 20:55, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

I don't see the need of marking anything 'up stream' of the Keep. Especially since none of those choices actually import to the Keep and would need to be re-entered manually at the Keep. 'Down stream', however, is probably a good idea. A quick reference guide for how choices made in the Keep effect which quests, etc. are available in DAI would be nice. Maybe some icons next to the page links to the individual quests indicating which Keep choice is required for that quest to be available. AugustusC (talk) 21:03, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

I think a better solution, which reflects the sentiments espoused here, would be to use that icon on the character pages in a spoiler tag, or some other tag, in the involvement section. This indicates that their involvement in that game is currently queried in the Keep itself. Ex: {Insert pithy quote} - the following contains spoilers for Dragon Age Keep, though I don't think it has to be a spoiler tag, since at that point we're pretty much revealing that yes, the events here are called out in the Keep). At the same time it won't say that they actually affect anything, thus it doesn't exalt them as being more important to the overall story (for example Brother Burkel is now effectively more important than Raelnor and Taoran). Then we can explore Inquisition over the next month and see if they are reflected, amending the involvement sections of quest pages and character pages accordingly.

My second solution is a separate walkthrough page specifically for Dragon Age Keep, with a rundown of every character (separate headers for Origins, Awakening, and II) that is queried in the Keep. We can probably do both. RShepard227 (talk) 22:08, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

The first solution still indicates that the Keep is something like a game. It's just a tool used for importing your decisions made in the previous games, just like how you imported your DAO data into DA2. What is in the Keep isn't exactly special, the method how it imports the data into the next game is. You practically set the flags in your world state, but you don't do anything new or unique.
The second solution is already mentioned on the talk page of the Keep, and a draft for it is in progress, as Tierrie pointed out above. --Margerard 22:42, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

Really DA: Keep is nothing more than a bigger more advanced better version of the genesis thing for Mass Effect for people who haven't played the first 2 games. it allows those people to make certain choices that happen in the games they didn't play so that they can have their own playthrough customized to a certain extent so i don't think we need a keep pop-up telling people that this is in the keep or this isn't in the keep --WardenMaster (talk) 22:57, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

It would be nice to have some I dictation of which quests could potentially feature in upcoming games and dlc , and isn't it about compiling information? So I think they should be included even if it's just in trivia or notes sections Blitzbear93 (talk) 11:10, November 3, 2014 (UTC)Blitzbear93

Wether a previous quest or character has any involvement or effect in the next game is usually noted. We haven't been noting it on the quest articles of the previous games, but the articles of the next, under "Acquisition". Examples: Dark Epiphany, Last of His Line, Secret Rendezvous, The Conspirators, etc. Or, in case of characters, we simply added it under "Involvement", for example Sketch and many other characters that made an appearance or have been mentioned. Unless there are plans to change this, I don't see why we would do it any differently this time. --Margerard 16:13, November 3, 2014 (UTC)
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