Hello everyone im new to the wiki or any forum for that matter so bear with me here. Anyways as the title says do you think do you think the grand cleric could have helped in quelling the war? Feel free to express your opinions.....User:TO1000
I think she could've. Meredith seemed like she'd do anything she said. I actually think there may have been something else to Elthina we don't know, maybe even further involvement by her. She just didn't seem right to me, not 'normal'. S13Kuro (talk) 04:47, August 13, 2011 (UTC)
I definately agree my friend maybe adlc might be in order "wink wink bioware wink wink"? User:TO1000
The best Elthina could of done was delay the inevitable, due to the corruption of the idol, Meredith's insanity was steadily increasing and the situation was a powder keg just waiting to erupt, it was only a matter of time by act 3. This was very evident if you played the Templar's side of things and got the "A dish served cold" quest from Meredith instead of Orsino. When resolving the quest all Meredith was interested in was wether or not you found proof that Orsino was involved. She was looking for anything to use as an excuse to attack in full force. Meredith's sanity would of shattered sooner or later and Orsino was no saint either. The Green One (talk) 05:36, August 13, 2011 (UTC)
The fact that she refused to do something about either of them for so long proved that she couldn't do anything. The situation was so bad, the Divine tried to get her to leave Kirkwall. Granted, she refused, believing diplomacy could still be used to settle it, but after Meredith seized power after the Qunari fiasco and Orsino demanding freedom (we know the extent of what he would go to to achieve this, though not without good cause), she still didn't bring either of them back into line. And like The Green One said, Meredith was too far gone. If Elthina actually had tried to do something about it, Meredith would've labeled her as a Apostate conspirator and locked her up in the chantry at the very least.--LordRevan25 (talk) 05:55, August 13, 2011 (UTC)
I see each of your points though one thing i dont get is i (although i hated myself 4 doin it) tried templar side adn mereedith is like i know and it pains me to do this but i must (when talking about killing all the mages) to orsino but she obviously is ruthlesly killing all mages with no remorse as seen swhen 2 circle mages surrender. User:TO1000
Thing is, by Act 3's end it was too late for Elthina to do anything, she should've done something much, much earlier. It was still a salvageable situation at the start of Act 3, when Meridith and Arseholino are mud wrestling, Elthina reasons with Meridith and she obeys. Elthina knew exactly what was happening, she should've listened to the mages and their concerns, instead she ignores it gets a bomb to the face for it. S13Kuro (talk) 06:16, August 13, 2011 (UTC)
Meredith said something about it seeming cruel that Elthina was stringing the mages along and her duty being to the templars and the mages plight being secondary. (I don't recall the actual quote.) This was sort of disheartening playing as mage Hawke because I talked to Elthina each time about being humane and helpful towards the mages, her making a difference. But Meredith knew the situation better even though she was bat**** crazy. Tommyspa (talk) 07:02, August 13, 2011 (UTC)
After Elthina refused to talk about supporting mages during the Justice quest, it was all but inevitable. Even had Elthina managed to escape the Chantry and told Meredith not to take an act commited by an apostate out on the Circle, Meredith was probably crazy enough at this point to assume the grand cleric had been taken over by blood mages and killed her. Then again, that probably would hav turned the whole city against her, and her templars may have turned on her right there. Who knows?HomelyDrugAddict (talk) 07:19, August 13, 2011 (UTC)
Bitches be crazy S13Kuro (talk) 07:29, August 13, 2011 (UTC)
I remember a good amount of time ago on the Bioware forums from Gaider that Merideth had requested from Elthina to invoke the right of annulment on the circle but was denied. She thus tried to go around the grand cleric and get permission from the divine (this is alluded to if a certain templar in act 1 is spared. The thing is that when Elthina was killed Merideth had the authority to declare the annulment. If this is the case, it really seems that its the Grand Cleric that was keeping the lid on the pot. I will just say in advance though that I will not go hunting for this post, it is neither recent or easy to find. And S13Kuro, you probably should remove that before any admins tell you to remove that. Balitant (talk) 07:38, August 13, 2011 (UTC)
I don't think she could have averted it, just postponed it for a lot longer. Meredith was one step away from falling into insanity. I think she'd be too insane to listen to her forever. Xelestial (talk) 00:33, August 15, 2011 (UTC)
Could Elthina have averted the war?
Not if Anders came to Kirkwall with a steadfast purpose.
As Jerrick tells the story, the troubles between the Templars and the Mages only heat up after Anders arrives in Kirkwall and joins or starts his underground.
In the Bioware short story, Anders, after joining with Justice, says, “Before Justice I was alone.”
He goes on to ask, “Why must the circle stand?”
He ponders, “Why has there never been a revolution?” (As aside, there had been a revolution and that was how the Circle came to be.)
He makes a bone chilling declaration while standing in a dark forest among the bodies of his fellow wardens and templars whom he has killed, “They will all die. Every templar, every holy sister who stands in the way of our freedom will die in agony and their deaths will be our fuel. We will have justice. We will have our vengeance.”
Before Anders even comes to Kirkwall, he has declared his war on the Circle, on the Templars, and on the Chantry.
In DA2, he tells Hawke, if Justice disapproves, it is wrong.
Then he warns Hawke that the Chantry must change or it must be purged from society. No amount of pleading from Hawke or his friends will change him from the course he has set himself upon. He has become beyond reason, and even exaggerates the plight of the mages in the circles elsewhere when justifying himself to Hawke and the others.
Could Elthina have averted the war?
Not if Anders came to Kirkwall to start a war. Not if Anders came to Kirkwall to purge the Chantry, which was not going to give into the demands of a Mage Abomination, from society. Not if Anders came to Kirkwall to destroy the Circle because, “…Others live with what I will not.”
In the short story, Anders says Justice has much to offer him. “A world with no circle. No templars. A world where every mage can learn to use their gifts and still return home at night.”
A world that can never and will never exist in the complex world of Dragon Age except in the twilight mind of irresponsible Anders who fled responsibility all his life and can’t even bring himself to understand that not all Mages would desire what he desires, and that he does not have the power or authority to remake Thedas into his own image.--Diosprometheus (talk) 20:54, August 19, 2011 (UTC)
- Captain Anders.. He's a hero.. Going to take the number of Templars down to zero. :D HomelyDrugAddict (talk) 21:07, August 19, 2011 (UTC)
Only in your mind may he be a hero. In my mind, he was a zero even before DA2. Valena was hotter anyway. After my frist playthrough I side with the Templars every time even if I play as a mage. Anders isn't a hero in DA2, he is psychopathic killer and dead.--Diosprometheus (talk) 21:16, August 19, 2011 (UTC)