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Forums: Index > Game Discussion > Conclusion for Hawke's story: Where is it? Is it needed?
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Back in the days when Bioware decided to pull the plug on DA2, Mark Darrah stated, that "conclusion for Hawke's story will be presented, but not in a playable way". Three months have passed, but we didn't see or hear about said "conclusion". Are you interested in it? Don't you think, that "the most important person in Thedas" (sarcasm, of course) deserves some closure?

Or you don't really care about Hawke and all that "conclusion" stuff, and don't think it's necessary?

However, if you do like to see it, then in which way? -Algol- (talk) 15:43, July 31, 2012 (UTC)


I may be one of the few people who was disappointed that they decided to cancel the Exalted March DLC. I did want to see a conclusion to Hawke's story. I remember when I first completed DA2 thinking to myself 'wait? is it over? It was just getting exciting! Let's fight this war!' Though I do prefer that they are moving on to DA3. At this point though if Hawke's story will no longer playable, I hope he or she just disappears. So far I've been very disappointed with what happens to Bioware protagonists when future games or other mediums drop hints about them. Sure, one of my Warden's went through the Eluvian with Morrigan- but some of the others were a Prince of Ferelden, and stalwart Wardens. They wouldn't just disappear (for at least one of them, especially without letting Leliana know what was up). So I would have liked to see a conclusion to Hawke's story, I just don't have faith that it can be done well. --Liam Sionnach (talk) 17:03, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

"...I just don't have faith that it can be done well" - Bioware tends to disappoint as of late, doesn't it? -Algol- (talk) 18:13, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

Mike Laidlaw reiterated on Twitter that Hawke would be featured again to give closure but not in a playable way. To be perfectly honest, I'd be more disgruntled if Hawke was given closure in the three month period, since I think it does need to be in a game (which I'm happy to wait upwards of 2 to 3 years for). Beyond that however, I'm not particularly fussed how they choose to handle it as I never really felt a connection to Hawke anyway (that being said, I can understand that if it was done cheaply with an absolutely unchangeable fate for Hawke, I can understand that some fans of Hawke would be upset, (and I wouldn't blame them) so I can only hope that that isn't the direction the go with). Chantry symbol King Cousland | Talk   17:45, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, so Laidlaw even reiterated. Well that's just great. I think mentioning Hawke in DA3 is the most viable solution, but I wonder if they'd do it in some other way? Like releasing a short story, or even a comic. Gaider likes comics, after all. -Algol- (talk) 18:13, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

I fine with Hawke's story not being resolved. In fact, I want to forget it as soon as possible. Aleksandr the Great (talk) 18:42, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

Frankly speaking, me too. I'm interested in Bioware's logic (or the lack of one), however. If Hawke is their "ideal protagonist" (s/he's voiced, omg!!!) and "the most important in Thedas", why not stand up to this? Why not give Hawke some closure? Instead, they focus on other characters, like in Adventures of Japanese Schoolgirl by FUNimation, or Player's choices? In MY canon? by D. Gaider. Where's the logic in that? -Algol- (talk) 18:52, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

Hawke ended up just like the Warden isn't it. Only difference was that BW did not want to present playable conclusion for the Warden, and the majority of fans weren't interested in a playable conclusion for Hawke.
Honestly speaking, I lost interest in DA2 pretty early and never got around to buying the DLCs. Hawke and his retinue had nothing of interest for me. But to be fair, a conclusion was needed for those who connected to Hawke, because his story was indeed ended abruptly. But the way I see it, Hawke is luckier in this matter than the Warden. They cannot show the Warden as a NPC in a voiced cutscene, but I'm pretty sure we will see Hawke, dialogue and all, in one of the future DA installments, as a NPC, and that will probably provide closure for the fans. Diain (talk) 18:45, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not fussed about Hawke in DA3. It was a shame that DA2 ended so poorly and so abruptly (and so the Mass Effect ending scandal probably shouldn't have been a surprise). I actually thought the DLC for DA2 showed the direction that the game could have moved in, with more time and money. But I don't particularly care if Hawke returns. Now, if you asked me if I want my Warden to return.... 4 words for you: "BRING BACK THE WARDEN!" --NickyStuu (talk) 20:10, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

Do you hear that sound? I think it's the players, who sacrificed their Warden, screaming in protest.-Algol- (talk) 21:40, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

I was probably one of the few really really bummed by the fact that DA2 and it's DLC ended so quickly. Still if they are able to provide a conclusion to Hawke's story (making sure to give him an ambiguous background of course)then I'll be satisfied. I'd have liked it to be playable but no use crying over spilled milk. VanisKael (talk) 20:27, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

If they do give us a conclusion, I hope they won't make Hawke seem more important (s)he actually is.

Anyway, I just had a thought about the Warden being voiced. What if the Warden is no longer him/herself and his/her body is morphed, or she/he speaks to you through someone, i.e. eluvian or something. Not a perfect solution, but better than adding a generic voice and trying to make us believe that this was how the warden sounded always. Henio0 (talk) 20:46, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

I can't say I care anymore. Hawke never managed to really endear him/herself to me anyway so it isn't all that important to me as long as the next game is actually really good... But thinking back on Bioware's past games, closure isn't really a strong point. I have no idea where most of my Wardens are, and while I'd still like to know, something tells me the ones I ended up sacrificing are probably happier. We don't need to get into Shepard again, and the mere mention of Revan is just....painful. I wouldn't really expect much for hawke, but making it a part of a game, even if not a playable part, really should be mandatory. The Grey Unknown (talk) 21:56, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

Being honest I always thought the Warden needed more closure than Hawke I myself have never finished DAII still on Act 3 but know what happens and what the endings are. The reason I beleive the Warden needs more closure is for those of us who diden't sacrafice their Warden I took Morrigan's Ritual and romanced her and then when I did Witch Hunt before I finished Awakening which I'm close to beating I went through the Portal. Considering the endings it's not one of those "And he walked off into the wind" moments. I want to see the OGB and for those who diden't go with Morrigan at the end of Witch Hunt the Warden dosen't die or go off into the Deep Roads knowing their time has come. For me in games like this the character's story should not be closed until they are dead. As for Hawke I did not feel a connection but yes a proper closure would be nice for the Lore and finishing the story of Hawke could open up the story of the PC in DAIII. Lord Warden (talk) 22:36, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

Making a final end for such a powerful character is necesary. However, I am mainly tallking about the Warden. Bioware has failed to give their three greatest Heroes the ending they deserve. It still bewilders me how Revan, the greatest Jedi/Sith Lord of his time can just simply be defeated by a bunch of MMO nobodies in such a casual manner. I won't even get into what happened with shepard. Which brings me to the warden. Someone like him/her couldn't just vanish into obscurity. There has to be an ending. And i mean a no ambiguity type of ending. Hawke i don't mind as much, but it would be nice. User:Warrior Tabris

I don't care if they finish Hawke's tale. To me Hawke's tale will never be finished because life is a tale, so by that logic the only end to Hawke's story is when he dies, same with the wardens. you can never finish ones tale when ones alive seen or not seen, The warden and Hawke maybe on their own quest and don't want to be found. Well thats how i see it. 203.45.127.20 (talk) 00:25, August 1, 2012 (UTC)Darkside

I honestly couldn't care less about Hawke's fate, I never really got attached to that character. I just wish they'd taken the Warden out of whatever stupid ominous business s/he is apparently involved in. They could've just left it at your Warden's doing whatever s/he was doing at the end of Origins (going with Morrigan, traveling Antiva, back to Orzammar, governing the Alienage, WHATEVER) and I would've been more content with that.I mean, if they're not bothering to bring the Warden back, WHY bother to reopen question about her/his fate after Origin's epilogue?! That's what pisses me off far more. Then again, same goes for Hawke I guess. If the games are about Thedas, not our previous protagonists, why have Hawke 'disappear' at all? I know we're supposed to think that Hawke's all THAT, but seriously. Just let him/her govern the damn city of idiots (I for one found the excuse for Kirkwall being overrun by nuts really silly) or be on the run for the rest of his/her life. That way one could've just imagined the conclusion you wanted for him/her and would've been free to move on to a new protagonist. No DLC or comics required. 91.22.159.206 (talk) 00:59, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

...Who's Hawke?WafflesAreSuspended (talk) 02:40, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

Supposed to be someone important up North in Kirkwall. I heard he fled Lothering and then bumbled about for a decade in one single city, and managed to screw up a lot of stuff. Diain (talk) 06:52, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

I thought it was that one guy, Orison's second in command that dresses up in a black suit fighting crime...oh wait, that was fan-fiction...WafflesAreSuspended (talk) 18:30, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

Well, closure would be nice, but I think fading into obscurity is thematically fitting with the character of Hawke, unlucky everydude who didn't make things happen but had things happening to him and who was party member and friend/frenemy/lover of two important characters in Kirkwall incident, Isabela and Anders. Dorquemada (talk) 09:33, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

I can do without a wrap-up. If DA2 never made Hawke feel significant during the years that he was supposed to have been affecting the DA universe, I can’t imagine it’d be all that interesting or fulfilling to see what he was doing after all that. I say everyone (including BioWare) should just start pretending that the “Hawke matters!” spiel was always just some desperate rumor-chasing on Cassandra’s part. HELO (talk) 16:05, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

I still really like Hawke and I thought she deserved some closure. Yes, they WAY oversold her role in the DA story canon but I still thought she was a good character. I hope we get to see her and the Warden again. Wsowen02 (talk) 17:19, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

Ummmm... "She"? "Her"?:) -Algol- (talk) 17:39, August 1, 2012 (UTC)
I LOVE Jo Wyatt's voice. Wsowen02 (talk) 17:54, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I pretend that female Hawke is the only Hawke that exists..male Hawke looks like a 40-year-old pervert.WafflesAreSuspended (talk) 18:30, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

Aww come on. I remember this time not long past when everyone said M!Hakwe looked like Duncan.....from that to a 40 year old perv.....steep fall for poor Garrett. Diain (talk) 19:34, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

For those who care for Hawke, it's a pity that BioWare scrapped Hawke's story and any attempt at a plausible conclusion, especially considering the way Hawke had been thrust upon us as the most important person in Thedas (Really? More important than than the Warden who arguably saved the world?). I think it's partly because BioWare realized how much the majority of the players disliked Hawke and Hawke's dull story. Or, in BioWare fashion, they simply dumped Hawke, as they tend to to with all protagonists, because THEY were done with him/her, whether the players were done or not. That being said, I'm grateful the Exalted March DLC fizzled. It is WAY TOO SOON for a holy war between mages and templars and WAY, WAY TOO SOON for a bloody Exalted March! BioWare has no notion of how to let ideas and narratives foment before blowing them up and wasting the potential. Maybe they'll rein it in a little in DA3 and allow the story to develop naturally. Personally, they need to handle the Warden's story and the OGB before they tackle Hawke's story. LadyAeducan (talk) 19:12, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

Except that even if (and that's a pretty big 'if', I vaguely remember hearing they were done with the Warden, and definitely remember hearing that they were sticking with voiced protagonists) they go back to to the Warden what makes you think they'll deal with the OGB? That completely railroads the plot for anyone that chose not to perform the Dark Ritual.--Liam Sionnach (talk) 00:11, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

Liam, yeah, I doubt they'll deal with the OGB--I don't think BioWare has any idea what to do with the OGB, really--but for my Warden, and for the sake of handling what could potentially be a huge narrative element in the future, I want it handled. It railroads the plot, but the possibility of the OGB can't just be ignored. Morrigan, at least, must be dealt with in some way. It's all a gigantic dangling plot thread--not just a "loose end" as BioWare would like it to be. And personally I don't think the Warden's story is over at all, with all due respect to Ultimate Sacrificers.LadyAeducan (talk) 02:49, August 4, 2012 (UTC)

Really liked LadyAeducan's comment, so commenting back:
"For those who care for Hawke..." - If I may, "For those very few who care for Hawke":)
"I think it's partly because BioWare realized how much the majority of the players disliked Hawke and Hawke's dull story" - Fat chance. They are so full of... artistic integrity, that they failed to realise how much the majority of players disliked what they done to Mass Effect and it's universe.
"Or, in BioWare fashion, they simply dumped Hawke, as they tend to to with all protagonists" - So true. Cmdr. Shepard was the latest casualty.
"WAY, WAY TOO SOON for a bloody Exalted March!" - Ummmmm... The possibility of said Exalted March was being seriously discussed in the "Exiled Prince" DLC between Hawke, Sebastian and Elthina. It was kinda hinted about from the middle of DA2 story. Guess the war would have started anyways, even without the involvement of Anders' Demolition Services (tm)
So about Warden's story, OGB's story and, ultimately Hawke's story. I totally agree with you about this sequence of the needed conclusions. But I see a huge problem here: Bioware's writers somehow contrived to slip their own lore out of their control. Because seriously, with DA2 and subsequent media spin-offs (like the "brilliant" tSG and DotS), we got so many lore inconsistencies, that now we simply wander blind. Does teleportation exist? Because the Codex says it doesn't, yet every little enemy spellcasting f*cker uses it in DA2 combat. Are dragons formidable foes? Because the Codex says they sooo are, but Cassandra's butter knife proves otherwise. Do qunari hunt their rogue mages deploying specially trained and equipped Arvaads with their squads? Because DA2 says they do, but "Redemption" features a bunch of random people. The list can go on and on. A key to solving all this stuff would be simple retconning, but it seems, that Bioware is too "artistically integrant" (aka too arrogant) to do this. They could have simply retconned Leliana back into existence, but noooo, they decided to go with the ridiculous "it wasn't my time", and Gaider talking on BSN about how ignorant jackasses do not understand fine art of writing. Also I was very surprised to see Alistair in tSG not only alive, but holy sh*t, king of Ferelden!!! Again, they could have simply made this canon for the gameworld, but nooo, Gaider says, that tSG is "a canon in it's own universe". It's like a dream within a dream in another dream, get it? Now, given the importance of both protagonisits and the OGB, and how they are basically shaping the gameworld and creating the lore, the only way out for Bioware to pull this lore back together would be creating a canon. Otherwise, there will be too much variabilities, that in no way can be accounted for in this position. Look at the OGB example: you want his story, I want his story, but that guy over there doesn't, because he never took the Ritual path in DA:O, therefore the OGB doesn't exist for him. But the OGB exists for us. And DA3, the game, should exist for all of us. That's why I see creating a canon as the only way out, but again, fat chance they will do this. Because the apparent "player decisions" are too lucrative as a marketing ploy, while in reality they mean little to nothing, yet Bioware wants to avoid rough spots. Well they can't avoid them anymore, because too much is too much. And that is exactly why I'm curious about whether they conclude Hawke's story (and if they do, how exactly?), because that would be a good indicator as to whether they understand all the aforementioned.-Algol- (talk) 01:06, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

-Algol-, thanks for commenting on my comments, it is appreciated! I think a great deal of the problem BioWare is experiencing now with both DA and Mass Effect is, as you noted, arrogance and a misinformed sense of "auteurism." They think they are above criticism and they have developed a strangely confrontational attitude toward their fans of late. In terms of their handling of their IPs, to me, and as many have mentioned, it is the retconning, the lack of consistent lore, and the total lack of any canon that make it so hard for BioWare to make any strides in both salvaging and improving the series. They need a worldmaster so badly--it should be Gaider but he won't/can't do it. That was part of my concern with the Exalted March business--BioWare is still developing the world and they want to blow it up! Same with the mage war! We are still learning about Thedas and BioWare has turned it all into a world war because they seem to think (IMO) that the only stories that are meaningful occur in complete chaos. This aggravates me so much. I think mage war and an Exalted March are plausible--they are hinted at, as you said, and we are getting them no matter what--but much farther down the line, after the world has been developed more than it is. The second game isn't the time to start total anarchy in the game world.LadyAeducan (talk) 02:49, August 4, 2012 (UTC)

I get the feeling Hawke's story will be wrapped up via third party conversations, if at all. If not that, then some non-game entry where PromoHawke becomes canon Hawke (no matter what your Hawke looked like). As for the Warden, that one was wrapped up too soon (if you consider it wrapped up at all) to make way for Hawke, so there you go... DAWUSS (talk) 03:11, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

DAWUSS, I totally agree. Hawke's fate will be determined by a gossipy NPC probably. And the Warden's story was not concluded at all in Witch Hunt. Not by a long shot. And Awakening too blew the Warden's story open and there are so many things left to know now. The Warden's story is in no way finished to me, but I'm a die-hard Warden person, the kind of fan BioWare would like to ignore.LadyAeducan (talk) 02:49, August 4, 2012 (UTC)

I absolutely prefer the Warden as well. And part of me would love to see a new game pick up where I left my Cousland, having gone with Morrigan through the Eluvian and raising his reincarnated old god son. It's just that I think the direction Bioware has taken the series, I dread what the result would be if they tried to bring the Warden back. They're committed to the voiced protagonist, and there is just no way I could reconcile a voice actor with my Warden(s) at this point. Also a lot of the returning characters from Origins in DA2 looked really weird, not to mention the import face fail from ME3 (I know it was a different team, but still a worrying trend). And most importantly, if the Warden comes back, and Morrigan and OGB show up- which Warden will it be? Would they bother with a save import? Some people are speculating that DA3 will release for the next gen systems, and if so could they even import if they wanted to? Or would they make a generic/official Warden? These are the kind of things that I worry about. Before DA2 I would have loved nothing more than to continue the Warden's story, but now I just can't see how they could pull it off without being a train wreck. So now I'd rather they come up with a new protagonist, hopefully one that is less annoying than Hawke. I'd also like if they didn't hype the character up as the most important person in the world and then completely fail to deliver.--Liam Sionnach (talk) 05:13, August 4, 2012 (UTC)
Save imports won't be affected by next gen consoles, because they're simply importing triggers and values. Higher grade hardware is also normally created such that it can scale backwards, so it shouldn't be an issue.
But TBH I don't think the Warden's coming back. People should just accept that. I've been using headcanon for my Warden's ending ever since I finished DAO, and then changed it a little after Awakening and Witch Hunt. With Inon Zur's awesome music and an imagination cultivated by years of RPGs and books it isn't all that hard ;) The results (in my head) are all pretty satisfying. Diain (talk) 08:06, August 4, 2012 (UTC)


Id rather them just kil them of like they di our kotor chrecters.GarettTheBoy (talk) 23:40, August 4, 2012 (UTC)

In response to Diain: I sincerely doubt BioWare will go back to there pre-EA work(I consider DAO as pre-Ea as it was nearly finished when BioWare was bought). If DA3 is a next gen game, maybe (read: hopefully) we'll get something like ME2 got with the interactive "Genesis" comic, to set up the big choices (Warden's background, the entire party, LI, Possibly Awakening/Witch Hunt, whatever big plot choices there were in DA2), as narrarrated by, I don't know, that one mandatory companion.Avg Man (talk) 01:17, August 5, 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps you misunderstood me, scaling back hasn't got anything to do with EA/Marketing decisions. It's a purely technical thing, and basically unless it gets too complicated with next-gen consoles, there's no legitimate reason for them not to include it. And as far I can understand, it will not get complicated because importing saves is just the matter of importing a large number of triggers which hold value based on player's decisions. Diain (talk) 04:05, August 5, 2012 (UTC)
Alright, I'll own up to misunderstanding you. I'm just surprised that what I typed was coherent, considering I was half asleep.Avg Man (talk) 19:12, August 5, 2012 (UTC)

DA2 felt very rushed. Almost like they didn't pay attention to the story enough. Get a writer like Branden Sanderson(When he's done with Wheel of Time of course!) to write a story for the Mage vs. Templar war and make a totally new story. A sixth blight is something I would like to see or a group of explorer's leaving the mainland of Thedas and travelling across the ocean to a new continent or west from Orlais and settling a new land creating a new country away from the Influence of Templar and the Chantry, or a go back in history game and fight the Orlesians during the rebellion or back further and fighting the Tevinter Imperium alongside the Alamarri, Avvar, and Chasind. Or a war where the Dalish finally reclaim Arlathan or claim some Land for themselves. ---Player800--- August 5


There are more fans of Hawke and DA2 then you may realize...Origins was a great game but DA2 has its own charms. And Hawkes story does deserve to be concluded.


^There are more fans of Hawke and DA2 then you may realize... Yes very true, I agree with this.. again there are plenty of artists that support Hawke.--Kiwiih (talk) 12:33, August 6, 2012 (UTC)

I think "deserve" is a little too strong. The story was weak. I'd say the fans deserve a conclusion - if they care. Because caring about such a poor character is truly a feast deserving an award. Henio0 (talk) 13:12, August 6, 2012 (UTC)
No, I think "deserve" is fine. I really enjoyed Dragon Age II, and I love fem-Hawke as a character. To leave Hawke's story unfinished would be unfair to the Hakwe fans (and DA fans as a whole), but then I very much doubt further DLC or expansions would have finished Hawke's story; judging by the final scene of DA2, Hawke's fate will be revealed at the same time, and in the same method, as the (surviving) Warden.... It's so common for people to slag Hawke off with empty rhetoric, I'm genuinely interested as to why you think Hawke is such a "poor character", without regards to DA2 game mechanics or comparison to the Warden... just Hawke - as a character. Alexsau1991 (talk page) 20px 18:45, August 6, 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps a bad choice of words. Hawke was a poorly developed character. And I am judging the character in the scale of RPG protagonists. The character wasn't unique - he or she had three sets of behaviour, meaning 1 in 3 players had the same Hawke. Henio0 (talk) 19:30, August 6, 2012 (UTC)
But then, is being 'underdeveloped' surprising considering the short length of development time DA2 had? The character wasn't unique, but that's a close comparison to Origins; the vast majority of RPG protagonists are no more varied that Hawke is – and who's to say 'unique' (to the player) is what makes a good protagonist? Alexsau1991 (talk page) 20px 21:44, August 6, 2012 (UTC)
The vast majority of RPG protagonists are as varied as you, the player, are able to exercise your imagination. As for those few fixed ones...well, while I do like the fellow, I don't think he outshadows TNO, Geralt or Shepard. Dorquemada (talk) 13:58, August 7, 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't matter. We already know Hawke is over and done with as a playable character, so a playable story end is not coming. And as far as developed characters or whatever, to each his own really. I found Hawke ok, likable enough but not really mine. But nothing special really. Now as far as "there are more fans of Hawke and DA2 then you may realize..." goes? I'm afraid not. There are certainly a fair share here of course, but the game's been out long enough to definitively state that it seriously underwhelmed it's intended audience. We could debate why for days, but the bottom line is any game that fails to have a second production run after an initial of 2 million just frankly missed the mark when sales were reportedly expected to exceed at least 4 million. Not a total loss by any means, and certainly in the black given the development time spent, but not really popular or well received at all, especially considering just how many who did buy it did not enjoy it. Still, even despite all that, I too would have preferred a playable end to the character. But EA and Bioware can't really afford to put out an expansion for a game guaranteed to perform at a loss right now as projected sales company wide are below expectations, and EA is taking a bit of a hit financially of late with some bad investments and severely underperforming stock. Even more so than usual really. The Grey Unknown (talk) 23:48, August 6, 2012 (UTC)

I've just finished another playthrough of DAII (Sarcastic Hawke!) and though about just a small scene, after the Seeker leaves Varric and we see her Liliana leave, couldn't we just have a scene, a small scene where Varric returns to Hawke, the only other there will be the love interest, Hawke asks "what did they want?" Varric replies "what they always want, where next?" "Onwards" our hero replies as the scene fades to black.
I know it's not perfect, but it would lead to a third game, a game that will have to answer many questions from origins, awakening and DAII
Putowtin- Light Love and Peace 14:37, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

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