Forums: Index > Lore DiscussionCircle mage oppression
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So, I'm aware a lot of people are sick of the Mages v Templars sort of discussions. Thats cool, this post wont be for you though, as a fair warning. Also sorry if this gets long...
- Anyways; I wanted to hear some feedback from other people, even if you didn't play a mage character. When I played Origins the first time, I understood the inherent rules of being a mage. The world fears/hates you, you're stuck in a tower and not allowed to leave, Templars will watch you every second, and before you can be considered "safe" you're to be thrown to the wolves (or demon rather) in order to pass a test, or get a magic lobotomy. At first I kinda shrugged it off...Rather I thought it was kinda cool to be considered so dangerous they've effectively removed you from society to practice your craft with other mages. ("You mean because I set this boy on fire, you're going to send me to a tower to learn how to set more things on fire? sign me up") This is when the Lore Kicks in, and says "Well, conditions are bad... Templars may verbally threaten you... You never really hit your full potential as a mage, you're just kinda taught basics.." etc etc. From a DA:O standpoint, I never once felt mages were oppressed. There's Apprentices in the market, mages hanging out in front of "Wonders of Thedas" and without additional reasoning, when Wynne asks to leave they just say "sure". So to me It seemed you could just be a good mage, and the "downside" of having to stay at the tower becomes meaningless. In DA2 they still mention Meredith "squeezing the mages" but that doesn't mean anything to me... it isn't until "The tranquil solution" I felt they were oppressed, but even that was going against what Meredith even wanted. This is probably just a case of Lore vs. gameplay, and I know things were supposedly different in the Ferelden Circle, But I've just never felt oppressed while playing as a mage. I was a proud Circle Mage Aequitarian. The Templars served a purpose in the tower. Am I missing huge plot points here? (as its been a while since I've done a play-through) Or does anyone else feel they could have done a bit better job conveying Mage "oppression"? Warden Mage: Ferris (talk) 23:33, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
There are a few comments made during party chatter in DA2. Anders mentions to Sebastian that Templars beat and rape mages in the circle, though it did not happen to him Alain will mention that letters of his are being burned rather than sens and that Karras has been in his chamber and threatened Tranquility on Alain if he says anything. So there are definitely abuses going on. 204.237.81.250 (talk) 03:42, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
What are you after? You wrote this to hear again from that it's a propaganda? It is and magic this topic only proobes your obsession on mage-templar topic. With same topic from same area of interest the forum becomes stagnat because of lack of new topics.78.9.0.93 (talk) 08:09, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
- As stated before, if you're tired of the mage/templar talk, this isnt for you. As that is the current state of the lore/games/books, that's as relevant as we can get. And since 'propaganda' seems to be the only word you know, I'm going to go ahead and skip over that part. What I am after is information. The Lore speaks a great deal of the mage oppression that I felt wasn't well represented in the games. That's a bit miss-leading. The Lore tells you things are bad for city elves, and in the origin story you're shown just how bad it can be. Later, you're shown how much worse it could get. In DA2 you're told all mages are dangerous, nearly every one you meet is a blood mage. The game hands you a personal reason for hating mages by having one kill your mother, the one mage you save kidnaps your sibling and tries to kill you. There is a lot (i feel) the games do with mages that feels bias. From a design standpoint, story, lore, and gameplay. I wanted additional information on the "why" of this revolution, as it feels it was mishandled with conflicting information.Warden Mage: Ferris (talk) 16:21, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
- Your "why" is part of the bigger problem called "Dragon Age 2". Among its faults, the one stands out quite noticeably when compared to "Origins" - that is, violation of "Show, don't tell" rule, which is especially important for a medium as visually dependent as a video game. In "Origins", as you stalk through creepy, haunted by demons Tower, encountering fine entities like Sloth demon and thinking it all was started by one man, it helps you understand that, maybe, those dangerous dudes and dudettes better stay where they can be easily isolated in case of emergency. The Templars mostly do their job, and their Commander understands that cooperating with people who can set everything on fire is smarter than oppressing them, and it makes sense - after all, it started with mages sort of choosing isolation themselves if I remember lore correctly. Of course, there are bad apples on the both sides, but nothing extreme. Trusted mages can move more or less freely, untrusted are very quietly lobotomized, there are factions, there are communication between the Towers - in short, everything's more or less sensible.
- Now, enter "Dragon Age 2", where everything serves the one purpose - to make stuff Something Awesome™! Of course lore gets thrown out of the window, because I imagine there were no time to work on nuances, so story's delivery is ham-fisted up to eleven. OMG Templars are all genocidal maniacs and rapists!!! But OMG all mages are blood-crazy demon summoners so dem Templars are right, amirite???? Voila, insta-dark'n'gritty "dark" fantasy! Add the complete disconnect between the story and game's mechanics, and you have the clusterfuck that makes no sense whatsoever, but is flashy, melodramatic and chock-full of frenzied akshun.
- In short - don't overthink anything that happened in DA2, because the reason of anything in it is "just because". Also, ignore 78.9.0.93, he seems to believe every topic regarding mages is made with the sole purpose to piss him off. Dorquemada (talk) 18:37, June 1, 2013 (UTC)