According to Mary Kirby, you did (thanks to tommyspa for finding the video).
"The scene plays differently if Hawke has slept with Serendipity. In that version, she greets Hawke familiarly, and hints that everyone at the Blooming Rose is looking forward to Hawke's next visit. That's what Tallis and Hawke are responding to, because I thoughtlessly did not write an alternate version of the middle or end of the conversation in the event that the player hadn't slept with Serendiptiy. I just linked around the familiar part of the conversation to the same ending. So yes, in this version, the most reasonable assumption would be that the source of the awkwardness is not a discussion of Hawke's popularity at the Rose in front of both their dates, it seems to be Serendipty herself, because no conversation has occured in this version of the scene." Futonrevoltion (talk) 02:23, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
Heeeeeeeeeel no! Canon to me is a dirty word. As I said in the original blog, this is just one writer messing up a bit. No need to start saying it's canon. Andy the Black (talk) 02:31, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
With what Mary said, I don't think the scene really implies directly that Hawke does sleep with Serendipity canonically (her comment does though, a little) but that it puts Trans* folks down to a whoreish and dirty view, but to me it is simply that she's a prostitute at an upscale Orlesian party. I may just be a little insensitive though. Interpretations are aplenty with this sort of thing though. I found the scene amusing, however even if some people find it tasteless. /Slight off topic. But no, My Hawke's do not sleep with Serendipity, I did it once and busted out laughing because I was not expecting it to be that obvious, my Hawke totally made this face O_O. Tommyspa (talk) 02:46, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- I have no problem with the scene, per se, except that - to perhaps unfairly staple my training, onto your original comment - it's yet another "trans-community = freak show prostitution" insult to add to the heap.
- Kirby's apology details that the entire scene hinges upon Hawke having sex with Serendipity. It was the original assumption and "the familiar part of the conversation." Anything else would be "an alternate version" of the conversation. She's not apologizing for that being the only choice, she's apologizing for the joke not firing correctly, if you'd somehow screwed it up, by not having sex with Serendipity... because transexual = funny, amirite? Futonrevoltion (talk) 03:01, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
I don't understand why BW keeps putting things like this in their games. I mean everyone at this point has heard of a transexual it's not like it's some big shock to anyone.DarkDabber (talk) 03:21, October 10, 2011 (UTC)DarkDabber
- You can apply the same thought or rule to how people are always overreacting to something in the same way, over and over. People are people, even if they are game developers. The implications of BioWare and sex are usually unpleasant to someone, you still see DA2's all bi haters out there. Tommyspa (talk) 03:31, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- I'll bet you 5 to 1 that, whether or not it airs, the scene has already crossed a few desks at FOX. They've been labeling the BioWare fanbase as uniformly tri-sexual, for years... and now BioWare is doing the same thing? Futonrevoltion (talk) 03:45, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- Lol, I'm waiting for an omnisexual character like Jack Harkness to be the hero of DA3, sort of like Shepard, deviant alien lover. Tommyspa (talk) 03:58, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- The official forums have, at least, had the "decency" to delete threads about having Dog be romanceable. Or, at least, they did, during the time I bothered hanging around there. Futonrevoltion (talk) 04:04, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- I've never seen a Dog romance thread, but I have seen Sandal romance threads, I do not think I am ready for that to be honest. I do not want him yelling OH ENCHANTMENT! at me during coitus. Just no... Tommyspa (talk) 04:21, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- ...and it's the same forum that calls the Dragon Age Nexus modders perverts. Futonrevoltion (talk) 04:42, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
I'm just not sure if they are trying to shock folks with it or trying to appeal to people like that or trying to make a laughing stock out of them, either way someones going to be butt hurt over it (no pun intended.)DarkDabber (talk) 04:11, October 10, 2011 (UTC)DarkDabber
- The first two. Bisexuality has been a selling point by BioWare, in this century. What's especially galling to me is, partially, that what little gameplay choice I had left is now dictated to me... but, mostly, that - in a game that trumpets its wide variety of personal relationships and your freedom in pursuing them, as you see fit (even as Rivals) - I'm being told that, "Nope. You've been paying to be sub to a comic relief character. C'mon, we all know that's the only real reason that you'd play $60 for a <ahem> "fantasy" game. Besides, the humor of the situation is totally up your alley, so to speak!" Futonrevoltion (talk) 04:35, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
I didn't see anything funny about it at all. But if they are just catering to people like that what about all the other folk who isn't like that? I don't know why everyone else plays DA but I like to play in for it's fantasy elements like Ogres, Darkspawn, Dragons and undead. To many folks focus on that sort of things and they end up missing the whole point of the game.DarkDabber (talk) 04:55, October 10, 2011 (UTC)DarkDabber
- I don't think it's been this bad, in any BW game, other than DA2. The first Mass Effect made some weird assumptions about what gets the player hot and bothered (and the lamentable decision to try it out), and it took some real effort to avoid having a sexual relationship, but it didn't infringe upon the main plot and the ways you could make decisions that affected the entire galaxy.
- What makes Origins, so special, is that you can mold it to what you want your takeaway to be, from fighting baddies, to exploration, to "Tee-hee! Boobies!" A toolset was specifically created for even casual modders to personalize the experience even further.
- It looks like we need to drag BioWare, kicking and screaming, away from the path of interactive movies and sexual pandering. If they're so desperate to make a dating sim, then less power to them. Futonrevoltion (talk) 05:13, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
I could care less if the Romance option was there or not. I mean some liked it and thats their right, but it was never something that appealed to me. Only time I used the option at all was to go through the mirror thing with Morrigan (only then because I felt that was the Canon reason for the Warden not to be around) If It dont have no place in the story then I ignore it.DarkDabber (talk) 05:24, October 10, 2011 (UTC)DarkDabber
My canon Warden (male) and my canon Hawke (female) sleep with everything, so yeah my Hawke slept with Serendipity. With that said I don't see why everyone must assume that this is a slap at an IRL orientation/identity issue. BioWare's efforts to include differing orientations is the most visible I've seen from a Top Tier company. Besides has no one heard of context?! High ranking, butt tight, political figure is bumped into during off hours and seen to be in the company of a prostitute and a transgender one. This is a Law & Order "ripped from the headlines" angle. There is nothing new or insulting here. Lame hyper sensitive peeples in this world. The rub IS NOT AT THE TRANSGENDER COMMUNITY. The dig is at hypocritical "conservative" "Maker Believing" politicians. Serendipity doesn't care that she's discovered. Serendipity is happy with herself. Zambingo (talk) 05:06, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- "The dig is at hypocritical "conservative" "Maker Believing" politicians. Serendipity doesn't care that she's discovered."
- It was established early on in the lore of this world that homosexuality is not any where near as chastised as it is in the "real world", it was even noted that orlesian nobles sometimes used it to flaunt their own appearances in front of others.174.45.9.40 (talk) 06:48, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
Well, that's what you get for emphasizing romances in your game, I guess, but I really, really wish those perpetually offended ~*activists*~ took their fight for rights where's appropriate (as in, not in a discussion about bloody one dialogue line in one tiny cutscene in one short videogame's DLC). They are just perfect excuse for Bioware to dismiss any complaint from fandom altogether, including valid ones. Like,
- Interviewer: "Say, Bioware, fans are having complaints about this game of yours, what's your say?"
- Bioware: "Fans? Like, these fans? Like, this sort of complaints? *gives links and quotes and smugface*
- I: "Oh. Oooooh. Oooookay. Well, this cleared up now, lets talk about other things..." Dorquemada (talk) 10:07, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- As opposed to the complaints that aren't being dismissed? I may be perpetually offensive, but would you really describe me, as a perpetually-offended activist? Futonrevoltion (talk) 10:23, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- Eh, that wasn't about you, but about some rather...passionate about their causes people in that shitstorm of thread at Bioware's Spastic Network (whywhywhy I keep clicking links to it why). As for complaints, Laidlaw kinda-sorta owned up to at least some, like paratrooping ninja squads and The One Cave (tm), no? But more complaints like this one means more excuses to them not to take any fans' opinions seriously. Note I said excuses, not reasons. Dorquemada (talk) 10:53, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- As opposed to the complaints that aren't being dismissed? I may be perpetually offensive, but would you really describe me, as a perpetually-offended activist? Futonrevoltion (talk) 10:23, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- 99 people voting on this, on a Sunday night, with comments that would be perma-banned on BSN for non-creepiness, provides some hope. I believe that the most effective protests that have been done, so far, is by holding game reviewers' feet to the fire. The Escapist critic who gave it an absolutely perfect score, being practically burned in effigy, seemed to really shake things up. Being caught using ringers on Metacritic caused more backpedaling, than being pilloried for banning that kid from playing his own game. Laidlaw and Gaider seem to feel that they're honest-to-goodness taking this, in the proper direction - Ferelden is played out with nothing to offer, Hawke was badly received, so s/he will be tossed out with the bathwater, etc. Forcing the press to ask real questions, with their mouths free, is my bet on the best way for them to actually reevaluate their decisions.
- I've got to say, though... this is the first time that I've felt personally insulted by the team, rather than disappointed into apathy. And certainly the only time that a writer's opinion of me caused a stomachache. Futonrevoltion (talk) 13:53, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
None of my Hawkes have ever used the Blooming Rose's services. So while I don't quite have a "canon" Hawke yet, the answer is "No". Gruedragon (talk) 13:05, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
I watched this, surprisingly. And I have to say, it does not bother me really personally, aside from the implication that BW is again forcing decisions on you. But that said, telling people that their character is basically nailing trannies, whether you want to or not, is probably not the best move for them at this point. I would have thought they would believe that at this point they would have lost enough fans, and not try to drive away even more, but eh...maybe they're doing it intentionally at this point. A big F U to everyone as the ship slowly sinks. Sometimes I get that impression I think. Anyway....I do think the sexuality issues in the games are starting to get a bit preachy in some ways at this point. Too prevalent and distracting. Maybe intentionally? I personally could not give a $hit about anyone's sexuality, in game or not, and I enjoy having the opportunity to play a whorish character from time to time, but sometimes it feels like BW is trying harder to make a social statement, rather than making an overall good and interesting game. As interesting as these discussions can get, volatile too, ultimately it's just slight of hand. A distraction, leading many away from the real issues with the product they made. Can't fault them though...sex and controversy sells, and draws attention, but it can't make up for the lackluster sales and the enormous exodus of fans from the series. The Grey Unknown (talk) 13:37, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- I don't yet see EA/BW, as twirling their mustaches. The fanboys who remain rabid are mostly obsessed with slash fiction and there not being enough sexual partners. Small wonder, then, that Isabela whipped out every self-referential meme, short of "I'm the Juggernaut!" Also, the shock at being criticized for the very things the fans "asked" for. And Gaider, eyes lighting up, after being told of the eye-scorching Cullen fan-fic.
- I've serious problems with the claims (not from you, but you know the dozens of folks that I mean) that not supporting BioWare spells the death of CRPGs. That's like claiming that point-and-click adventure games declined, because Sierra and Lucasarts fans were impossible to please. The death of mainstream point-and-click adventure games were because the market was over-saturated and they started getting really, really awful. People would buy bad games, simply to keep the genre afloat... eventually the games get so lazy, that fanboys leave, and no one's left to buy them.
- Rebooting "Sam & Max" sells, like hotcakes; the adventure game market was under-nourished and 90s nostalgia remains high. "Dark Spire" does not... people who played Bard's Tale, religiously, aren't exactly in the core DS market. If "Sam & Max" catered only to those who haunt ancient forums, dedicated to the original game, it would have bombed, and the takeaway for the company would (erroneously) be that the market simply wasn't there and/or couldn't be satisfied. BW seems utterly convinced that BSN is their entire market, when those folks couldn't maintain a lemonade stand. Futonrevoltion (talk) 14:22, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
As for the "BioWare is saying all Hawkes banged Serendipity and used the whore house" side of the convo... I don't believe that is the case. Even with that part of the convo having been admitted to be specifically written for more sexually explorative Hawkes that does not mean it's incorrect firing must mean all Hawkes are that way. Just look at it like I explained above; Bran was particularly uptight and butthurt about the rules and being proper, he seems like a traditionalist etc. So the "awkwardness" bit can be seen as everyone except Bran knowing what Serendipity is. Zambingo (talk) 14:20, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
It's just a mistake, no one is telling you your Hawke has done anything. Is this conversation going to be a big factor towards the story of DA3? Probably not. It's a glitch. They've probably already started working on a patch and yelled at Mary. --Alexiolio (talk) 16:05, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- That's where you're wrong! This conversation will have world changing impact on the future of Thedas. Hawke is after all such a 'happening' person that even small things like this can mean the life or death of thousands! Infact I'll wager that we'll find out that the final fate of DA universe will be decided by this conversation. ;D Diain (talk) 16:17, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
this is a mistake, this has been confirmed as a mistake and yet people are still convinced this is another attempt by bioware to limit hawkes choices? colour me confused. Its hardly even biowares biggest conversation screw up (witch hunt anyone?) I really don't understand what the fuss is all about, even as a mistake the line isn't that offensive, it's not like hawke screamed "I HATE YOU YOU DIRTY TRANNY THE MAKER WILL PUNISH YOU"...although that'd be something to talk about :P --Tabristhegreat (talk) 17:02, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
Eventually I stopped reading everyone’s comments because this just got too muddled so I don’t know if anyone else said this, but, without playing it, how can we be sure that the familiarity is sexual? How many of your Hawke’s have NEVER stepped foot in the blooming rose to help anyone? I know my Hawke frequented the place and she never got down ‘n’ dirty. Mrs.AlistairTheirin 18:05, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
I quit reading comments cause it got all jumbled...I haven't played it yet and I have not seen the video. My Hawke did step foot in the Rose a few times but that was to help people. Not only that but we can't help but not to step in the Rose for a few quests??? If I am not mistaken don't we have to go in there for a main quest in Act 1? "Enemies Among Us" I do believe...So for the few times my Hawke went in there NOT ONCE did she ever pay for "services". The only people my Hawke ever slept with was whoever she was in a romance(Anders or Fenris) with during that playthrough. Emmalee (talk) 20:19, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
Just thought I bring it up, but according to Mike Laidlaw the Hawke doing the deed with Serendipity thing is not canon. Unless you want it to be. Andy the Black (talk) 22:51, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- What exactly did he write? Because he certainly missed that boat, during the writers' meetings and editing process. Futonrevoltion (talk) 23:00, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- I asked him over Twitter if it was and he said "Ahhh! No, not canon. Unless you want it to be, which is cool by me". Not sure how to link to the Tweet itself but if I figure it out I'll post the link. Andy the Black (talk) 23:06, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- I'm petty enough that I'm imagining the next line was going to be: "I mean, I've got transsexual friends. Just not black ones." Futonrevoltion (talk) 23:12, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- lol. Nah, petty is going to the top man for answers... Oh wait... Andy the Black (talk) 23:23, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- I'm petty enough that I'm imagining the next line was going to be: "I mean, I've got transsexual friends. Just not black ones." Futonrevoltion (talk) 23:12, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- I asked him over Twitter if it was and he said "Ahhh! No, not canon. Unless you want it to be, which is cool by me". Not sure how to link to the Tweet itself but if I figure it out I'll post the link. Andy the Black (talk) 23:06, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
Here we go, from http://twitter.com/#!/mike_laidlaw:
- Spotted a few early impressions for Mark of the Assassin from folks who've completed it. Seem very positive. Glad they enjoyed!
- @Mike_Laidlaw Looking forward to playing this. However as Im sure you know a certain conversation has raised some eyebrows. Love your input.
- @AndytheBlack Which one?
- @Mike_Laidlaw Sorry. The one with Bran and Serendipity. Some people believe that Hawke doing the 'wink wink' with Serendipity is now canon.
- @AndytheBlack Ahhh! No, not canon. Unless you want it to be, which is cool by me.
Thanks for asking him! I really should get into the 21st century and twitter, to get questions to people in ways that they'll respond to, before censoring themselves. (Answers I get are closer to the "bawww!" end of the spectrum.) Futonrevoltion (talk) 23:12, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- I'm just lucky he was good enough to give me an answer. A lot of devs can't or just wont answer questions over Twitter. The BioWare dudes seem to be just cool like that. Andy the Black (talk) 23:40, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- I genuinely like Laidlaw, but I get the impression that he's been steadily frozen out of most of the development schedule and, so, always a few beats behind everyone else. I don't actually dislike that Gaider doofus, either, but it's a safe bet that I've blown any chance of being on his Christmas card list... my detailed explanations on what a "Head Writer" is and helpful suggestions on good seminars to attend didn't get very articulate responses. Futonrevoltion (talk) 00:01, October 11, 2011 (UTC)
Are any of the others on twitter or is it just Mike? 216.221.96.202 (talk) 23:52, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
Oh poop I forgot to log in when I posted..^^^^^^^^...the post above me is mine...sorry bout that. Emmalee (talk) 23:56, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- http://twitter.com/#!/davidgaider Having breasts gets questions answered. Ugh... of course, I made the mistake of reading "So eventually you'll say goodbye to all your friends and play Origins to death? Gosh. Good luck with that. :)" Futonrevoltion (talk) 00:05, October 11, 2011 (UTC)
@ Futonrevoltion. I like Laidlaw as well, he seems quite accommodating to the fans and I think has a genuine passion for the franchise. My opinion of Gaider has gone up a lot as well in recent months.
@ Emmalee. Theres quite a few BioWarerions on Twitter. Andy the Black (talk) 00:21, October 11, 2011 (UTC)
I've seen DG recently on Twitter talking about females mages in qunari society simply being Bas, holding true to women do not wish to be men thing, they simply are not qunari. A quite literal folk. Tommyspa (talk) 00:35, October 11, 2011 (UTC)
My opinion of Gaider is still dropping like a rock. I keep trying to find excuses to feel, otherwise, but then he goes and makes fun of people with innocent questions or says that Origins is holding him back or creepily hits on Dahlialynn. Actually, that's probably why Mary Kirby gets away with so much. Futonrevoltion (talk) 01:24, October 11, 2011 (UTC)
I don't get it. She messed up and assumed that all players had slept with the tranny and people are making a big deal out of it? Xelestial (talk) 22:30, October 12, 2011 (UTC)
- Ever had someone assume you, in Real Life, had sex with someone that you didn't? There are few things more infuriating than that. Now imagine that it was with a prostitute. Now imagine that you just found out that, not only did this rumor exist... but that it'd been "common knowledge" for the past three years. Now imagine that you found out about this at a workplace dinner party. From your boss. Futonrevoltion (talk) 22:40, October 12, 2011 (UTC)
- "Few things more infuriating"? Whoa, dude. Your life gotta be a flow of peaceful, steady, relaxed bliss if things like that not just infuriate you, but infuriate so bad. Well, that, or you are American. You people are very funny about sex. Dorquemada (talk) 10:18, October 13, 2011 (UTC)
- Kirby is saying that if you didn't realize the scene was referring to everyone thinking you'd had sex on a regular basis with Serendipity, it was because you had both neglected to do so (thereby ruining her view of what any right-minded player would do) and that you'd somehow managed to misinterpret the conversation. Futonrevoltion (talk) 22:51, October 12, 2011 (UTC)
- I think you might be reading a little to far into it and the power of dev neglect relating to defined canon, or a correct way to play. The fact the Mary wrote the scene with that intention, and neglecting to write an alternative doesn't always equate to the one true interpretation of the scene always being tranny sex addict Hawke. As there is no actual conversation talking about the Blooming Rose waiting for Hawke's next visit, like in the version with sleeping with Serendipity. That's what I've heard on the road anyhow, take it for what it is. Tommyspa (talk) 23:22, October 12, 2011 (UTC)
- Kirby is saying that if you didn't realize the scene was referring to everyone thinking you'd had sex on a regular basis with Serendipity, it was because you had both neglected to do so (thereby ruining her view of what any right-minded player would do) and that you'd somehow managed to misinterpret the conversation. Futonrevoltion (talk) 22:51, October 12, 2011 (UTC)
It's not the fact he/she is a prostitute or the fact that he/she is a he/she. It's the fact she made an assumption at all. To assume that anyone made a certain decision, any decision, in a Dragon Age (or Mass Effect) game is totally against the spirt of the series. Just be happy this has not been made canon, unlike the decision of what to do with a certain redhead in DA:O. Andy the Black (talk) 22:51, October 12, 2011 (UTC)
- ^^ This. The sheer weight of all these walls, keeping DA2 from being "your" game, is staggering. EA treats you, as renting the game, and can suspend your ability to play it - at all - at any time. It's a voiced protagonist. It's a framed narrative... told by someone else, so you're playing someone else's story of someone else's story of someone else. The whole premise of said narrative is to explain why you aren't responsible for the event Hawke is being blamed for. There's no toolset, and never will be. EA is actively hostile to modders. Etc., etc., etc. The list goes on and on.
- I'm so fixated on the prostitute angle, because it drives home the fact that the only way Hawke can get sex without 7 years of begging, bribing and bootlicking, is to pay for it. Futonrevoltion (talk) 23:25, October 12, 2011 (UTC)
- At the risk of hijacking this thread: I think the biggest factor stoping DA2 form feeling like "your" game is the lack of outcomes for some quests. I can see the rason for some quests having fixed outcomes for emotional impact or stroy progression, but why couldn't we save Ninette or just let the Winters rescue Saemus? The voiced protagonist thing never gets in the way of my Hawke being MY Hawke. Mass Effect has a voiced protagonist yet my Mass Effect games still feel way more unique than my DA2 game. Not to say that it dosen't still feel like my game, just it could have felt more unique. Andy the Black (talk) 00:08, October 13, 2011 (UTC)
- It's because of the inherent weaknesses in framed narrative and how completely unsuitable it is for fantasy, in general, high fantasy, in particular, and BioWare games reliant upon choice, in specific.
- Framed narratives are, at their best, when used for tragedies. And are most often seen in storytelling styles, like film noir. It comes with an inherent feeling of despair and inability to decide one's destiny. They are nearly always flashbacks and the laziest of them are bracketed by two halves of a police interrogation. The protagonist struggles "heroically" against their predetermined fate, but is helpless against it.
- Putting alternate solutions/endings to even the most minor subplots in framed narratives are incredibly difficult, because of how restrictive the main plot must be (since it's decided from the very beginning). And, if a writer somehow manages it... the victory/defeat cannot, by definition, have lasting/satisfying impact.
- Imagine if "Star Wars" had opened with Han Solo, being interrogated by a butch Leia about why Darth Vader set up the Battle of Endor, so he could assassinate the Emperor and hand control of the galaxy over to his son. "Well, Princess, <smirk> that's not exactly how it happened..." Futonrevoltion (talk) 00:25, October 13, 2011 (UTC)
- I can't blame the framed narrative. The story in this case is that of Hawke and his/her involvement in the mage upriseing, how and why said upriseing occurred. I see no reason why the events leading up the finale quset can't be different depending on the choices you make through out the game. Take Origins for example, the outcome of the game is always the same, you beat the Archdemon, but how you get there, who survives, and who you sleep with can be very different from game to game. Even though the destination is fixed there is no reason why we can't take a different route. Andy the Black (talk) 01:30, October 13, 2011 (UTC)
- And so begins the epic tale of Star Bores: following the story of Qwerty Skywalker, who mysteriously has pink hair and a green beard. --CommanderCousland (talk) 01:45, October 13, 2011 (UTC)
- If Origins had a framed narrative, it would begin with the epilogue slides for whatever origin you chose and then do a dissolve effect to the Human Noble origin story. You would be free to do things, like decide to side with the Werewolves, whereupon, on the way to the Dalish camp, Swiftrunner would slip on a banana peel and snap his neck. Then, Zathrian would send you back to kill Witherfang; however, you have the freedom to choose one of three dialogue lines before going back. Futonrevoltion (talk) 07:53, October 13, 2011 (UTC)
- Not really. Lets say that Origins starts the same way as DA2, with someone, lets say Bodahn, being hauled in for integration by Cass. She wants to find the Warden and needs Bodahn to tell her how he/she became the Hero of Ferelden. The game then plays the intro to whatever origin you choose, just like normal, except Bodahn is doing the VO and not Duncan. You then play you origan as normal. Cut to Cass expressing her feelings about Howes betrayal or the Eluvian, whatever. You then play Ostagar, Cass again expreses disbelief at Flemeth's involvement. You play Lothering and get on with your game. After every main quest we cut to Cass and Bodahn, she expreses shock/horror/disbelief at the Warden defiling the ashes/destroying the Anvil of the Void etc. Eventually we get to The Battle of Denerim, the Archdemon is killed and Cass has the info she needs. Game over. Basically you can fit DA:O into a framed narrative because although the quest you go on all have different outcomes, no matter who lives, who dies, whos king, whos queen, you always win. The Archdemon always dies. The Warden is alwas a hero. I see no reason why DA2 couldn't pull this off. Andy the Black (talk) 09:17, October 13, 2011 (UTC)
- At the risk of hijacking this thread: I think the biggest factor stoping DA2 form feeling like "your" game is the lack of outcomes for some quests. I can see the rason for some quests having fixed outcomes for emotional impact or stroy progression, but why couldn't we save Ninette or just let the Winters rescue Saemus? The voiced protagonist thing never gets in the way of my Hawke being MY Hawke. Mass Effect has a voiced protagonist yet my Mass Effect games still feel way more unique than my DA2 game. Not to say that it dosen't still feel like my game, just it could have felt more unique. Andy the Black (talk) 00:08, October 13, 2011 (UTC)
So from what you're saying Futonrevoltion, Hawke should be pissed at Kirby. For anyone in real life, it seems like they're taking it a bit too seriously. I would be more pissed that she forgot to wrote an alternative and made a huge mistake no one caught than what it means in-game. That just looks terrible on the developers that no one caught that. Side note: I'm surprised so many people didn't sleep with her/him. I certainly did I think. I slept with everyone at the Blooming Rose but mostly so I could get the surprise dialog and because I am a completionist :P
- That's an interesting way to view being a completionist. In any case, I'm talking about the decision being made for us, the reflection being cast on us (for it, apparently, being a no-brainer that we'd make such a decision), and that something caught within hours of pre-release eluded Gaider, Laidlaw, and all the in-house copy editors and (if they actually exist anymore) continuity folks. That and the official-ish apology would be so galling. Just because I mention France's losses in WW2, in one paragraph, doesn't mean I'm ignoring Russia's, from an earlier paragraph, silly. Futonrevoltion (talk) 23:42, October 12, 2011 (UTC)
I was a bit confused when I first heard her voice (I thought it was a voice mixup), but I'd go with no. Йура
00:26, October 13, 2011 (UTC)
Does the awkwardness really hinge on whether or not Hawke has slept with Serendipity? I think it's pretty damned awkward simply from the
"Oh, hey, it's Seneschal Bran! ... With a transsexual elven prostitute. So, Talis! Canapes are nice, eh?"
Unless I'm being totally insensitive and everyone brings transsexual prostitutes to high society parties. In which case, I may need to apologize for a faux-pa. 98.198.53.85 (talk) 06:52, October 13, 2011 (UTC)