Forum:Broodmother images

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Recently an image on our wiki was deleted by a Wikia staff member because she felt that it violated the terms of condition of Wikia. The image in question is one of the Broodmother. In the opinions of the administrators of Dragon Age Wiki, we do not feel that the image violates the TOC because the image is derived from a monster from the game. And, we feel that by including that image, we keep true to the spirit of the game.

In addition, traditional monsters such as mermaids, sirens, harpies are also depicted in the nude as like other fictional beasts. In such a fantastic context, the depiction of the Broodmother are quite in line with the rest of the mythical beasts as well.

So, let us know how you feel. Do you think that as an encyclopedia for the game, we should keep true to the look and feel of the game? Or do you feel that this image is visually offensive to you? -- tierrie talk contr 20:40, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Just in case someone asks... this is not a joke. This a serious issue. --D. (talk · contr) 13:00, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Comments

I, of course, do not support the deletion of the picture or even changing it to a headshot. Doing so is a disservice to the fans and people who want to know about the game. It is not meant to offend anyone, but to document the creature as it appears.

Note that supporting or changing this particular image means we will have to take down other images depicting broodmothers since they have full frontal nudity. --D. (talk · contr) 20:49, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

I am fervently opposed to the deletion. By deciding what is and is not offensive, we can no longer do our job; making a free encyclopaedia of information. Because this image was used in a proper manner, and not simply for the purposes of being pornographic, I believe this does not constitute a deletion. Not only that, but it is not an actual image of a human being. It's purpose was not to be pornographic, but rather to be complete in it's description of our topic. --The Milkman | I always deliver. 21:00, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

I too oppose the deletion of this image as it is no more than an accurate picture of a Dragon Age monster. It is in no way gratuitous and removing lessens the ability of our wiki to provide information. A head shot would not provide an correct impression of the Mother as it does not show her bestial qualities. Loleil ^Talk 21:21, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

I too oppose the deletion because, like others have said, it injures the wiki's ability to give an accurate representation of the mother. ----Isolationistmagi 21:24, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

I shall skip my usual diatribe on the absurdity of censoring tasteful images of the human body, since this situation is even more bonkers than that. I'm no regular article editor here on the wiki, so I can't lay any claim to being afraid of having the integrity of my work compromised as the other users can. However, I find the removal of images of The Mother to be completely baffling. The image in question is that of a monster, and it's certainly frightening and grotesque to behold, but I can't for the life of me figure out how anyone could see past the monstrosity that it is, and simply take issue with the "frontal nudity" of something that isn't designed to be even remotely erotic or pornographic. Are we doing this for the children? Protecting their innocent hearts and minds from giggle fits directed at pictures of monsters with multiple rows of boobies? Please don't continue this madness, Wikia... There's a colossal difference between obscenity and anatomy, and an even bigger difference between human and... that. Or are we going to start censoring images of udders too?

Tekka Ijuin | Talk

21:47, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

I concur. The image's purpose is clearly not to cause offence, but to portray an accurate depiction. Furthermore, the image comes from an 18-rated game, and so images like this are to be expected surely? Or should we simply censor or shut down all wikis based on mature material? A head shot would not suffice as it does not present (as Loleil mentioned) the monstrous details of the Mother. This clogs wikia with yet more bureaucracy and red tape, and is inconsistent with the purpose of our (and most) wikis. King Cousland | Talk   22:09, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

So... What, it's darkspawn porn now? Why didn't she delete desire demon screenshots then? I oppose, of course.-Algol- (talk) 22:15, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with everyone else. There is absolutely NOTHING offensive about this picture. Both Dragon Age games were rated M for MATURE. It even lists "partial nudity" next to the rating. Anyone on this site is only on here because they have played Dragon Age, or are looking into playing it. They should make themselves aware of the rating if they find things like breasts offensive. Please keep the picture.--Turbotwistedfire (talk) 22:18, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

I oppose the deletion of this image or any of the original images of the game. I could see if it was a mod that showed nudity but it is not.  Hollowness | Talk | Contr 23:06, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

I honestly think this is ridiculous. This is a normal in-game image from DA, why delete it? Shall we remove various pictures of desire demons as well? Delete the pages about the brothels and all characters found there? Asherinka (talk) 23:13, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

If someone finds the Mother sexually titillating (I mean, that's why it's problem, isn't it? Nobody censors belly buttons), then that man has a far larger problem than the Mother being on this wiki. He needs a psych eval. GabrielleduVent 23:29, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Why do you think it is necessarily a man?-Algol- (talk) 10:16, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

I oppose, because this very obviously doesn't make any sense at all.--SunyiNyufi (talk) 23:37, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Adding my opposition for the already stated reasons above. There was no reason to remove the image. Period. This is just plain ignorance. I suppose next they'll contact BioWare and demand it be edited in the game itself? It's a MONSTER in a game not a p0rn. Vhardamis (talk) 23:46, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Once again, "sensibilities" overrides common sense. No one ever says anything about the fact that her face splits apart, because she's a monster, but the sight of a breast and its "Omg! There's a breast! Won't someone please think of the children!" In case you can't guess, I oppose the deletion of the image. It is from a mature game that deals with mature themes. It is an undoctored image, there is nothing scintillating about it, nor is it by any means pornographic, it is simply an image of a monster. --Madasamadthing (talk) 00:36, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

I oppose the deletion, and support our admins. What are we going to do next, cover the ceiling of the Sistine chappel? Drape the classical statues? Forbid anatomy at schools? Besides, such censorship is unacceptable in an encyclopaedia. The purpose of DA wiki is to collect information about the game; messing with this purpose makes us a tool of someone's philosophy, and I shall not tolerate that. --Ygrain (talk) 06:28, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

I think this issue of thoughtless censorship can have far reaching consequences and should be brought to the attention of as many community members as possible. Is there a way to pin it somewhere at the top of the Recent Activity page, or something like that? --Ygrain (talk) 07:09, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

I knew we forgot something! Thanks. :]

A notice has been added on the Recent Changes and as a site notice for Monobook users. We might stick a notice on the front page, but I think this should be okay. --D. (talk · contr) 13:00, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

I also oppose deletion, accuracy of images is important. On the other hand, if the erotic nature of the image is an issue to more than just the one that complained, we don't want to ostracize or exclude some viewers, everyone who wants to should be able to use this. A compromise would be to use the headshot as the main picture and but the less appropriate images in the gallery behind something akin to a spoiler tag --CarloGrimaldi (talk) 07:45, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

"Eroticism (from the Greek ἔρως, eros—"desire") is generally understood to refer to a state of sexual arousal or anticipation of such" (wikipedia)

I fail to see how the picture of Mother could be perceived as erotic. I don't agree that nudity automatically equals erotic, and especially in this particular case. I also fail to see how users could be offended by genuine in-game content on the wiki if they have played the game and seen much more of the Mother than a single shot; has there ever been criticism towards Bioware for creating the content? Those who haven't played the game yet and might possibly come to the wiki to learn something about it beforehands, should IMHO have access to full and unabridged game information to make an informed decision whether and on what basis they want to play the game or not.

Besides, if I understand the post that started this correctly, the issue was not someone feeling offended by the image but confused why the picture was deleted on another wiki while still being displayed here. There might be a point to restricting other wikis to the headshot, to avoid controversy among users who are not familiar with DA, but here, on the very DA wiki, the information should stay true to the game. --Ygrain (talk) 11:01, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

The Broodmother is part of the game. A game which is rated as "Mature". If we want to keep wiki's true encyclopedic nature, then we should not take down such images. Those who use this wiki, obviously realize and comply that they will find material which can be found in the game as well, thus some of them may be rated as M Viktoria Landers (talk) 13:32, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Seriously? Leave it as is. If something offends you, exercise your right to click on another page, or change the channel, or not play it. For those of us with kids, and worried about your kids seeing it, then here's a suggestion: BE A PARENT! The game is rated M after all. The internet isn't raising your kids. And if it is, you shouldn't be a parent. The Grey Unknown (talk) 13:53, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

I don't really need to say anything other than "I oppose deletion" - everybody else has already said everything I planned to say on the matter. Matt-256 (talk) 14:04, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Agree with all the above. People who frequent the Dragon Age wiki are well aware of the game's M-rating and thus the wiki should be free to accurately portray any image especially with a vital character. No one likes to look at her...but she has to be seen in all her disgusting glory! Badgley (talk) 15:16, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

I figure I'll add something since I somehow started this - as stated above I wasn't offended, I was confused as the image was deleted for being "against the ToS": which I felt was weird as Broodmothers are not in the slightest bit "attractive" so the argument of porn gets thrown out rather fast.. however from the response I got it seems bared breasts is enough to be considered offensive now: I'm sorry if my question caused problems for you guys, I was geniunely confused as to what was so "wrong" with the image and wanted an answer.. then this happens. --Inferno Pendragon (talk) 15:58, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with all the above and strongly oppose the deletion of any images taken directly from the game. We have all played the game or are trying to learn about it before buying it and are well aware of the M rating. I agree that the Brood Mother is not attractive or erotic and so is not pornographic.--CouslandRogue (talk) 16:06, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

The interpretation of the terms of condition by the two Wikia staff member involved and the immediate deletion of the image is quite worrying. As pointed out by everyone before me all used materials that derived from the games are M-rated, there is no reason to gloss over or even censor. I hope these issues are at rest now. --ShardofTruth (talk) 17:03, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Well, congrats to that offended chick for letting people know what a dirty filthy mind she has. :-) Dorquemada (talk) 17:26, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Errhh that is a pretty weak reason to delete a picture. It is how the creature is presented in the game, why should some nipples be cause for deletion?--Ser Mea (talk) 17:32, April 1, 2012 (UTC)