It's becoming increasingly apparent that many supposed "fans" of Biowares games are incredibly immature and downright offensive.
First evidenced with the J.Heppler insult incident, now the ME3 ending one, there have been many "fans" who instead of offering constructive criticism, decide to simply rip into Bioware and deliver incredibly offensive comments for no real reason.
While the vast majority of Bioware fans are perfectly civilised and helpful, this minority is giving us a bad name. Thoughts? --GamerGuy27 (talk) 18:41, March 24, 2012 (UTC)
People are assholes. The difference here is that BioWare has given them a forum and made a big deal about how they listen to fan feedback. Most other devs give only occasional lip service to their fans at most and maybe that's the smart way to do it. Wsowen02 (talk) 19:56, March 24, 2012 (UTC)
The internet allows a perceived degree of anonymity that people think gives them license to act like, well, pigs. In all honesty, if you took people away from their computers where they think they can get away with ripping into someone's work and their livelihood and brought them to meet the developers face to face, you're going to find that they'll become very apologetic, very quickly. --Madasamadthing (talk) 20:16, March 24, 2012 (UTC)
It's a facet of... just about every position people can take on something that on every single side there's going to be a couple of borderline-retarded mouth-breathers who just yell out idiotic, straw-man versions of their group's actual argument (especially on the internet), thus giving them a bad name, since most people only pay attention to whoever's yelling louder than everyone else. It's a sad (though kind of funny) quirk of human nature that the ones who are always the loudest and most virulent are the ones who either don't really know what they're talking about, or they're trolls. The only real way to counter that is simply to make sure we tell everyone when we hold a certain position that such people do not speak for us and are a small minority. Oh, and pro-tip: if more than half of a given message or response is in ALL CAPS or is ritin lik sum 4 yr ld id it, then it probably fits into that category. --68.8.43.135 (talk) 21:08, March 24, 2012 (UTC)
What disturbs me the most, is the fact, that the latest Bioware's products are in dire need of critcism, but with with that amount of immaturity, if not downright stupidity, Bioware would be less likely to respond and improve. Seriously, DA2 with its numerous plot-holes, this feeling, that the game was rushed in production and, therefore unfinished and many more problems you sure can add yourself, needs to be criticised and improved. Mass Effect 3 endings? I won't even start here, because excessive swearing is probably not encouraged by Siari religion. Those endings need to be improved or re-written, or at least somehow changed. Now here's an example of civilised criticism I always like to give [1]. Here's Bioware's response [2]. Everything is ok, right? Fans will get their quality product in new editions, and EA/Bioware will get their money from new editions. Everyone benefits. But in the case of blind rage and hatred, Bioware would respond accordingly, and that's perfectly understandable. Not to mention, that in the matter of DA, David Gaider wasn't very responsible even to constructive criticism. The a-holes are putting the chances of improving at huge risk. That's very bad, my dear friends:( -Algol- (talk) 21:14, March 24, 2012 (UTC)
You have a good point. A lot of times when creators (film directors, authors, game designers, etc.) get input from their fans, they end up pulling the plug on it because some of those "fans" are blithering assholes who rant and rave about how much they suck and how horrible a person they are for not catering to their every whim, and are incapable of offering anything resembling constructive criticism. And unfortunately, it's those types of people who scream the loudest every time, so that mature, reasonable fans are drowned out and thus go unheard. In fact, you'll find this exact phenomena on TVTropes under "Why Fandom Can't Have Nice Things". Also, I did the anonymous post preceding the one above me; I didn't notice I was logged out. --UrLeingod (talk) 21:26, March 24, 2012 (UTC)
Fans are acting appropriately. It's similar to how anyone might act if his or her best friend (for instance) were suddenly corrupted by a greedy drug dealer and that friend subsequently stole all your money to feed his or her addiction, repeatedly lying to your face along the way. You would be pissed off too. Mass Effect 3's ending creates several unnecessary plot holes that could have been resolved had BioWare stuck to its original promises. Watch the following video for a little insight. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M0Cf864P7E The ending might have been intentional. It creates justification for additional DLC. If it wasn't for that purpose, then the developers committed creative oversight. But the rest of the game is spot-on (though several relationships felt incomplete), which leads me to conclude that the former is true. BioWare screwed up the ending to Mass Effect 3 intentionally for the purpose of justifying additional DLC. I'm not sure how this impacts Dragon Age III, but it is quite startling. ChomskyDisciple (talk) 05:41, March 25, 2012 (UTC)
Believe me, that's not what we're saying. BioWare screwed up the ending to ME3 and screwed up a lot of stuff in DA2, and that fact is more or less indisputable whatever the reason, so of course outrage from their loyal fans is totally justified. What we're talking about here, however, isn't the guys who say "this really pisses me off, you guys totally f*cked up, and here's why...", that's perfectly fine. What we're talking about are the guys who go "BIOWARE YOU F*CKTARDS! F*CK YOU! RUINED FOREVER! I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU MADE SHEPARD GAY!" because, while justified (except that last bit, the homophobia about that pisses me off a lot, since it's incredibly easy to avoid doing that and you'll really only see it if you want to), it's not remotely constructive, and the point of a fan's complaints about the game should be to get BioWare to realize how they f*cked up and give them ideas to fix it. Basically, if you want to say you hate some of the choices they've made or even the game itself, that's fine. If you tell them they've messed up and disappointed a lot of people, that's fine (and accurate) If you want to tell BioWare how you think they could improve it, that's great. If you're just going to bitch and moan about every little thing that didn't live up to your wildest expectations and troll or make death threats at BioWare, or basically just do everything that any sane, decent person would be unwilling to do face to face, that's not right, and it's becoming a bit of a problem. --UrLeingod (talk) 07:51, March 25, 2012 (UTC)
I agree with the above post. It's not so much the fact that people are criticising BioWare, but how they're doing it. We can all pretty much agree that they have made one greedy, inept choice after another. The flawed Dragon Age 2, the crap-fest that was Deception, the day-1 DLC on the disc that costs 10 dollars, photo shopping Tali's face, and the ultimate betrayal: The endings to Mass Effect 3. I'm tempted to say they made them that way just to provoke a reaction, so they can charge us even more for the DLC. I honestly find it difficult to believe that the same people who wrote the last five years of one of the greatest trilogy's in this industry can just suddenly do a 360 turn and make an ending they think is fine, whilst the entire fan base instantly recognises how wrong it is. Hell, I loved Dragon Age 2. I am not that fastidious. But with ME3.... --The Milkman | I always deliver. 08:24, March 25, 2012 (UTC)
Immature, dumb people exist? When did this happen!? This is a crisis for all humanity!
 Tekka Ijuin | Talk |
12:29, March 25, 2012 (UTC)
- The internet is a haven for these people?! By Andraste, someone shut the internet down NOW! ChomskyDisciple (talk) 16:43, March 25, 2012 (UTC)
Well everyone knows that ME series are shit compared with DA series. I know they are in different genres, but never the less DA is the flagship of Bioware. Mass Effect is just the sideshow game meaningless and just waste of money and time. --178.55.78.194 (talk) 16:18, March 25, 2012 (UTC) Jak Darckner
Truth hurts. --178.55.78.194 (talk) 19:46, March 25, 2012 (UTC) Jak Darckner
- On the other hand, obvious trolling attempts are amusing. 95.117.163.144 (talk) 19:55, March 25, 2012 (UTC)
- Your opinion on the DA series being Bioware's flagship really confuses me though. In another thread you have acknowledged that DA II was bad and that the future of the series isn't going to be any better, so how can you say the DA series is supposed to be Bioware's flagship? Makes no sense. 95.117.163.144 (talk) 20:04, March 25, 2012 (UTC)
Obvious and poor attempts at trolling are little more than people spouting garbage online. Keep that kind of thing off of a discussion page- Thank you. EzzyD (talk) 19:58, March 25, 2012 (U
DA II is still better than ME 3 so the DA series are better than ME series. --178.55.78.194 (talk) 20:48, March 25, 2012 (UTC) Jak Darckner
Fans for everything are "immature and downright offensive" its not just bioware fans TheColourGreen (talk) 20:51, March 25, 2012 (UTC)
- I'd even say that people in general can be "immature and downright offensive", so it's not just fans for anything -Algol- (talk) 20:54, March 25, 2012 (UTC)
OP, I hope you realize that the backlash by the fans is justified. People can be immature and, as you would expect, a few have been, but the majority of the fanbase that is unsatisfied with the ending has been quite civil in revealing it. This is quite frankly, a very annoying situation for all of us. Bioware promises varied endings that would be dictated by our actions and wouldn't be and "ABC" type of conclusion and when we turn up on the forums voicing our displeasure for the endings we get told off by the many, as well as Bioware themselves that we are questioning their "artistic direction" and "creativity in art" when they have said they have been building the games with the fans, not the other way around. For them to know turn around and say "our game, our rules" goes against everything they have said in the past. Imagine if DA:O only had the one ending where you die and the only that changes is the color of the explosion when the Archdemon dies. That is roughly the same situation we have in this case.Gaiden96 (talk) 22:56, March 25, 2012 (UTC)
- Just to make things clearer...
- "OP, I hope you realize that the backlash by the fans is justified."
- Which exact part of the backlash are you referring to? The OP cited an example of personal attacks against J.Hepler. That can never be justified. I hope you realize that.
- "but the majority of the fanbase that is unsatisfied with the ending has been quite civil in revealing it" - they may be the majority in numbers, but their voices are drowned in the screams of the a-hole minority, as UrLeingod put it. That's kinda the whole point of this discussion.-Algol- (talk) 00:40, March 26, 2012 (UTC)
Contrary to popular belief, the internet doesn't show what the majority of people think, only what the loudest people think. I see a Neon Genesis Evangelion being pulled here. The fans were hateful towards the ending the writer had and complained about it, a lot. I see the same thing happening now. I think ME3's ending was in tune with the story, i.e. depressing. Granted, apparently there was promises of, 16?, different endings. I'm starting to see signs of schisms in the fan ranks, a lot of people are tired of the endless complaining and I agree.If you don't like the game don't buy it. That's no reason to try and trash the game for others.Friendlysociopath (talk) 15:49, March 26, 2012 (UTC)
- "I think ME3's ending was in tune with the story, i.e. depressing" - Nope. It wasn't in tune with the previously established game lore, like, at all. Weird god-starkids-whatever; space magic, that merges two completely different life forms into one; hostility between organics and synthetics, seemingly impossible to overcome, which you clearly proven wrong, were never in the story. That's why the ending is not depressing, it's ridiculous.
- "If you don't like the game don't buy it" - Imagine you've bought a car, because you actually like it. You drive it for a while, and then it suddenly stops. Turns out, that whoever manufactured it, put a crappy engine, but told you, that it was the new cutting edge one. Ah, and the test drive was alright. That's called how? Fraud?-Algol- (talk) 19:09, March 26, 2012 (UTC)
I agree with the original poster. It seems as though the internet has created a new generation and higher level of immaturity and depravity in some cases. Adults and adolescents alike need to realize that the internet does grant anyominity, but that is no excuse to be a complete and utter jerk. Since when has beating someone when they're down (Basically what "fans" have been doing to Bioware) been okay? It seems that people forget that they need to act civil the moment they log onto a computer. Constructive critism; fair critique = good, helpful which leads to better games and a stronger relationship from Developer to customer. Brutish insults and complete and utter disrespect = destruction of Developer-customer relationship which leads to horrible games. I struggle to understand why no one seems to get that.--Sjelen Kain (talk) 05:17, March 27, 2012 (UTC)
A company gets fandom exact as it deserves, as it largely shapes and influences its fans itself. Haven't seen any entitlement and wankery at, say, GoG's. Cry me a river, Bioware. Dorquemada (talk) 12:57, March 27, 2012 (UTC)