The... rather high opinion that two of your mages in the Inner Circle have of themselves is a point of contention. From what I gather, most people are okay with Dorian, but get rubbed the wrong way by Vivienne. I think I can succinctly summarize why:
Dorian says "I am AWESOME!"
Vivienne says "I am AWESOME... and you're not."
--MadCat221 (talk) 16:41, October 19, 2015 (UTC)
- Agreed to a point, the point is that Vivienne is annoying, but as Sera said, she's a bitch, there is nothing much more to it then that.
- And that's the thing, she IS a bitch, but at least she is honest about it.
- Solas on the other hand, he robbed me the wrong way from the very first time I saw him, the way he talked about spirits, his mysterious non disclosed background, and his mandatory participation.
- As far as I know only three companions are mandatory parts of the inqvisition, him, Cassandra and Veric, and we know both of their backstories.
- Of course, the last DLC Traspasser confirmed what I at least, felt from the very first time I saw him, he is dangerous and will betray us, turns out that he was the bigger treat all along and Corypheus was just a stone in the road-rphb- (talk) 17:08, October 19, 2015 (UTC)
That, and Vivienne is a huge hypocrite, a liar, and a manipulative PoS. And she's a mage hating mage. Sera is an elf hating elf but at least she's funny. Vivienne has zero redeeming qualities. Silver Warden (talk) 19:43, October 19, 2015 (UTC)
- Mage hating mage? Since when? She knows you can't get rid of the circle she said that protesting the injustices of the templars is good and that the circle chose the wrong time. 0 redeeming qualities my ass, she knows the lay of the land and how best to use it. I'm sorry you live in some lala land where you can get rid of institutions with a snap of the finger and everything is hunky dori. As for why people hate vivienne and like dorian it's because dorian's gay and your not allowed to not like him. Tragic really considering he's an awful stereotype--BriefSeduction (talk) 20:41, October 19, 2015 (UTC).
- People like Dorian because he's a well devolved character, his sexuality has nothing to do with it. Anyway, Vivienne clearly mistrusts mages to a high degree. Perhaps 'hate' is a bit strong, but she definitely has a very low opinion of her own people. Otherwise she would trust them to be free of the circle. It's one thing for someone who isn't a mage to think that way, but Vivienne is aware that mages can and do control their powers for the most part. Yet she sees only the worst in them. On top of that, she is willing to sacrifice their freedom for her own personal gain, though that has just as much to do with her selfishness as it does with her disdain for mages.
- I don't think Vivienne is a poorly written character. I just don't like the character, and I don't think you're supposed to. But then, I have a very low tolerance for hypocrites and pretentious bitches. Silver Warden (talk) 21:26, October 20, 2015 (UTC)
- Ha! Funny. Dorian is only his sexuality, he has almost no other character traits. I believe his only non stereotypical trait is he's an alcoholic. Vivienne doesn't "hate mages". She knows, unlike most here, that abolishing the circle isn't possible. You can't just get rid of these institutions you should instead fix them. It's not my fault nor biowares that you've failed to read her properly.--BriefSeduction (talk) 21:40, October 20, 2015 (UTC)
I will say I dislike Viv, but I dunno if I would say she has NO redeeming qualities. A lot (if not most) mages are arrogant by nature, it's practically a character trait. Yeah, she's got it a bit heavier then most, but she's also a first enchanter, she reformed her court position from scratch (as she put it, it was practically a joke before she showed up) she wielded power and influence for loyalist mages since the Chantry had all the power at that time. She makes good points even if the way she says it is irritating, the mages NEED Templars, but the Templars need to be reformed before they can help anyone. If you actually do her personal quests and get a good approval with her, she treats you much better (including the spa day she paid for months in advance during the trespasser DLC). She's definitely not for everyone, and again I dont particularly like her, but its still good to have her perspective, and her respect. [edit] forgot to sign my post, sorry. Warden Mage: Ferris (talk) 23:27, October 20, 2015 (UTC)
- Exactly. These institutions won't be going away anytime soon so reform is the better approach. Remember how ser baris stopped a mob from tearing apart a mage just by being there? Remember how the chantry demilitarized magic? Remember how the circle provided food, water, shelter, and clothes? Vivienne even says that protesting templar abuses is ok and just you just need to do it at the right time and place. After Anders blew up the chantry was probably wrong on both accounts. It's not like she's ignorant that templars can get out of control or that reform needs to happen in some places either. Quite the opposite. Aside from that I've yet to see a plan to put any of those services in place and no mage could replicate the peoples respect.--BriefSeduction (talk) 23:14, October 20, 2015 (UTC)
- Well I dunno about you, but in my Trespasser ending, Fiona restarted the College of Enchanters, and Viv then in turn restarted the Circle of Magi, as an opposing force. So we have the beginnings of both change and conflict on the early horizon. The College needs to prove mages can be free, and integrated into society, while the Circle needs to prove the College is wrong, and a less strict version of the former circle is what mages need. Neither side being completely wrong, but both have the potential for disaster. Warden Mage: Ferris (talk) 23
- 32, October 20, 2015 (UTC)
- For me divine viv left the college well enough alone in not only OOC for her but for me as well. Devs seem to really want to beat the dead horse here. Of course I'm expecting a fairy tale ending where nothing goes wrong ever and there's never a bad mage ever until the end of time but maybe I'm alone in my opinion of the writers.--BriefSeduction (talk) 23:36, October 20, 2015 (UTC)
- "not allowed not to hate him because he is gay" that is a load of crap, Vivianne is a fucking negro, but these trait have nothing to do with why we hate or love the characters. She is an annoying conniving bitch.
- It does annoy me that she is a Negro with no explenation as to why, I'm sure that they should exist somewhere in Thedas, but it would have to be North of the Imperium, and there is absolutly no explenation as to why someone of so exotic race should be in Orlais, which is basically France. Maybe if one of her personal quest had revealed around that, like us helping her find her family, we might have gotten to like her better, simply because we would have gotten to know her better.
- Think about it. What does the nation of Thedas corrospond to:
- Ferelden = England
- Orlais = France
- Tevinter Imperium = Byzantine Imperium
- Qunari = Islam
- Andrestrian = Christianity
- The Donarks past the Anderfels is my best bet.
- Perhaps a sad story about she was captured by Tevinter slavers as a small child but then rescued by Anderfels warriers only to be driven away in fear when they discovered that she had magic,almost succumbing to hunger and cold until a nice Orlesian templar found her, who took her to the circle in Val Royeaux.
- We just never got to see that, we never got to see her vulnerable-rphb- (talk) 23:37, October 20, 2015 (UTC)
- I'm just gonna go ahead and ignore the racism. Aside from that she's from wycome in the free marches. And yes, we did.--BriefSeduction (talk) 00:00, October 21, 2015 (UTC)
As a character, Vivienne rubs me the wrong way. My first inquisitor (also a mage) agreed with her on most points - she also supported the circle as an organization and even chose the Templars instead of the rebel mages. And even she didn't like Vivienne... Now, I still haven't completed an entire playthrough (I keep getting side-tracked by creating new inquisitors/playing other games), but I feel like Viv was a good idea, but they just went too overboard on the whole "mages need to be kept under control" bit. Having her clearly have that opinion is fine, but it's like her entire character revolved around it.
As for Dorian, I enjoy him in the game, but mostly because he is amusing. I'm pretty sure if I knew him in real life, his arrogance would really annoy me. I do have to respect the fact that he is still very patriotic. Even though he was treated terribly, and thinks that as it is now, Tevinter is a disaster, he still believes that it can be turned around into something to be proud of. --CountSilvershroud (talk) 00:55, October 21, 2015 (UTC)