Forum:Are the Archdemons the remaining Elven Gods?

Forums: Index > Lore DiscussionAre the Archdemons the remaining Elven Gods?

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Found this article that might explain a few things. Figured it'd make for some interesting ideas here. By remaining Elven Gods I mean besides Flemeth/Mythal and Solas/Fen'Harel.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/01/08/fan-reverses-dragon-age-audio-cracks-open-a-huge-secret?utm_source=zergnet&utm_medium=Web&utm_campaign=Zergnet_363548

Vampire Damian (talk) 01:45, January 14, 2015 (UTC)

It is possible, although I personally think "Mythal speaks... the calling" could mean practically anything and not necessarily that Mythal has "the calling". If we are to try and combine the old gods with the elven pantheon I find it far more likely that they are in fact the forgotten ones. Let us look at things this way:

• Shape: The Old Gods are draconic as I am sure you all know and while the Creators (Mythal and her kin) are stated as elven (Flemeth confirmed this), the shape of the forgotten is unknown. You might say that Flemeth can shapeshift into a dragon or that the Old Gods could be high dragons possessed by the elven gods. The first one does not prove anything because as I said the Creators are said to have elven shape and there is nothing indicating that Flemeth's ability is nothing more than a powerful form of shapeshifting. The second one holds more merit, although I still hold to my own theory, partly because the other one feel like it requires you to "fit the pieces yourself" instead of them fitting by themselves.

• Location: the creators are said to be locked in the heavens and the forgotten ones in the abyss. Deep underground certainly feels more like the abyss and it is there the Old Gods are locked.

• Personality: while the Creators are not always "benevolent" they still liked to help the elves while the Forgotten Ones were clearly malevolent, and of unknown number by the way. That make them far more likely to have helped the Tevinter Imperium, which even if it was not the true cause of the fall of Arlathan still enslaved the remaining elves. They are also shown to still interact with the world, even if the Creators do not, as there are a few elves who have struck deals with them in exchange for power. The Tevinter Imperium, similarily, did have people who were granted power and "wisdom" by the Old Gods.

These are the reasons why I think so. Caspoi (talk) 16:29, January 14, 2015 (UTC)

I've had a few theories involving the Old Gods being the Forgotten Ones as well. It wouldn't surprise me either way at this point honestly. I've always suspected that the archdemons were just dragons (likely great dragons) possessed by some type of being. The theory (of mine, at least) that always seemed to make the most sense was that the Old Gods were never really Gods, just high ranking demons (or arch-demons) that possessed great dragons. However the Forgotten Ones may be demons and if they were would likely be high ranking.

1 thing that still doesn't really make sense is why Flemeth has a human form rather than elven. Unless the stories are still partially true and the spirit of Mythal possessed the once human woman Flemeth. Flemeth/Mythal and Solas/Fen'Harel definitely seem to have some kind of connection to the archdemons, I'm just not sure what exactly. I also wouldn't be surprised if Flemeth was the one who taught the ancient Anders how to become Grey Wardens. Correct me if I'm wrong but they've always been rather vague about the details of how they figured it out. Vampire Damian (talk) 00:48, January 15, 2015 (UTC)

Another thing that Flemeth confirms is that the tale about Flemeth of old is, at least partially, true, which means that "Flemeth is just the possessed body of Mythal. Caspoi (talk) 02:01, January 15, 2015 (UTC)

The statues of Mythal at her temple actually look like a draconic-humanoid. I'm not sure the elven gods are generally elven in appearance. 12.146.29.230 (talk) 00:56, January 15, 2015 (UTC)

Flemeth said so. And her statue alone looks draconic (it has wings) so my argument still stands. Caspoi (talk) 02:01, January 15, 2015 (UTC)

There's a translated elven codex from the temple that refers to a punishment for a follower of Dirthamen for taking the shape of a dragon which is reserved for the elven gods and their priests (or something like that). The language is relatively vague though, so it could mean that the elven gods:

• are elven and shapeshift to dragonform exclusively (kind of a status symbol), or
• are draconic and privileged elves may shapeshift to emulate the gods.

At any rate, the way the lore is set up, it's strongly hinted that the Old Gods bear some relation to the elven pantheon. Even if we take a secular view to look at religious assimilation, it's quite likely that could be the case. (Ie: Dorian commenting on dreamer orbs which are all too similar to elven foci). Hopefully more story-based DLC will drop more lore for analysis. --Gabesinator (talk) 03:11, January 15, 2015 (UTC)

The elven gods and old gods/archdemons are two different things. In some party banter between Solas and Cassandra, Solas reveals that he believes in the existence of elven gods AND old gods. Given the fact that he is himself Fen'Harel, then him referring to them as separate groups makes it pretty clear that they can't be the same thing. Now in that same banter he does also say that he doesn't think of them as gods unless you expand the definition of the word to the point of absurdity but that's a different matter for another discussion. 174.19.181.92 (talk) 21:52, January 15, 2015 (UTC)

Depending on his wording, saying that he believed in both doesn't necessarily mean that they are separate groups. Especially if he talks anything like Flemeth. However if they are separate groups, then it seems likely based on his other comment about expanding the definition, that the Old Gods are either high ranking demons, the Forgotten Ones, both or possibly but less likely, a new kind of entity. Vampire Damian (talk) 23:00, January 15, 2015 (UTC)