Forum:Anyone else regret their decision to kill......((Spoilers))

Forums: Index > Game DiscussionAnyone else regret their decision to kill......((Spoilers))

Note: This topic has been unedited for 4418 days. It is considered archived - the discussion is over. Do not continue it unless it really needs a response.

Did anyone really regret their decision to kill Loghain Mac Tir after reading the Stolen Throne? I know this thread is way overdue, but it just hit me as I was re-reading the Stolen Throne. I found that I geniunely regretted killing Loghain after reading the novel; I realized what Loghain had lost and I felt horribly. I had just killed a hero; the best friend of the most respected King of Ferelden known: Maric Theirin. After reading that book, I have never let him die even though Alistair is quite possibly my favorite character in Origins.--Sjelen Kain (talk) 01:12, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

Not really. The only time I've spared Loghain is for achievements. And I have read the Stolen Throne and yes, Loghain is a sympathetic character due to the events of the novel. But any sympathy I had for him evaporated after Ostagar. Whatever was heroic in Loghain died when he left Cailan behind and left the army to die. The hero is long gone, and now there is just a man consumed by bitterness, anger, hatred who plunged a country into civil war and nearly allowed it to be destroyed by the Blight. And then there were the City Elves being sold as slaves to the Tevinters and Howe's torture of the Grey Wardens and nobles who stood against Loghain. Even if he didn't order either atrocity, he knew about them and let Howe continue on his way. No justification can actually make that right. Not to mention that regicide is a crime that warrants death (he made absolutely no effort to at least get Cailan out of the battle, regardless of Cailan being a gloryseeking moron). In the end, a man like that, and its more of a mercy to kill him at the Landsmeet. --Madasamadthing (talk) 01:44, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

That's what I used to believe too; but over time I've come to the conclusion that he really does just want to keep Fereldan safe. He did so by any means neccessary; keeping to his character with nearly exact precision. I personally think that something just snapped in him when Maric died. When you do spare him, I find him to be an infinitely interesting character compared to Sten, Shale or Zevran. (Yes, I have gotten approval to 100 with them several times. They are not that interesting.) He truly shows signs of regret and wanting to atone for his crimes, especially when he volunteers to take the final blow to the Archdemon. I know many of his actions are unforgivable, but I just can't bear to end his life after reading The Stolen Throne.--Sjelen Kain (talk) 02:02, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

Loghain was the Hero of Ferelden before the Warden, sure. That's the key word. He WAS the hero! he lost his way. Without Maric as a guide, Loghain was like a lost puppy, biting and clawing his way through the slums, trying to find the little piece of light and happiness. He never did. He let himself be dragged into a darkness and refused to come out. Only a strong kick in the head like becoming a Warden would give him a chance to come back to the light, but I wasn't willing to lose Alistair for someone I(my Warden) didn't even knew. I killed Loghain and i'd do it again.--Markurion (talk) 02:24, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

After reading this, nope, not at all. GabrielleduVent (talk) 02:43, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

Not really, it made for a good story in the grand scheme of things. ----Isolationistmagi 04:08, March 14, 2012 (UTC) I guess I am alone in my opinion. I mean from time to time I let Alistair kill him, but I flinch everytime.....I used to hate Loghain with a passion before reading the book. I liked Alistair, but Loghain's dry humor made me laugh harder than anything most of the other party members said. There used to be an option to keep both Alistair and Loghain alive and in your party, but sadly; it was taken out. The dialogue can be found though.--Sjelen Kain (talk) 04:32, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

I do, and I totally wish Alistair wasn't such a brat so you could convince him to spare Loghain =p. But alas, it wouldn't work for game balance due to so many warriors plus I'm sure having to make such a decision as to one or the other is done for good reason. I think Alistair is the only reason why I regrettably killed Loghain though, and I made him do it since he was so dead set for it. I think after understanding Loghain's pragmatism, in both the books and the game, I can understand his choices even if I don't agree with them and therefore I’m able to sympathize with him. He had his reasons for everything, and they weren't done out of cruelty or spite toward anyone or anything, but out of pure pragmatism to the point of not looking to hope or faith or anything like that as plausible reasoning because those concepts are not something tangibly logical to him, and therefore cannot be counted on. This is the very definition of pragmatism, he just has it to a fine point, to which his actions through that ultimately lead to his downfall. I’d point out a bunch of examples to his reasoning behind everything, which I have done in the past, including abandoning Cailan, but then I’d make another essay out of his choices. So while I dislike what he’s done and the outcome of it all, I wouldn’t condemn him to death, especially when he’s so redeemable, and it’d be a waste of resources otherwise as Riordan mentions when suggested he be conscripted. Celsis (talk) 05:46, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

Never read books, spared Loghain on the very first playthrough because he seemed much more interesting than Alistair (whose temper tantrum at that point did not help his case any). Had problems not sparing him in subsequent playthroughs because he proved to be more interesting than Alistair. Dorquemada (talk) 08:18, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

Nope, not at all. I was a human noble in my first playthrough and spoke to him in Ostagar where he told me that he knew what Howe did to my family. After he betrayed the king, wardens and allied himself with Howe, I couldn't help but think that he, like Howe, betrayed the king to gain power. On top of that, he put a bounty on my head when I did nothing wrong, plunged Fereldan into civil war, attempted to kill Eamon and partook in several other bad stuff. This was enough for me alone to want him dead, not to mention how my most loyal comrade, Alistair, who stood by me no matter how much he disagreed with my choices, felt about him. Even if I didn't want vengence on Loghain, I wouldn't betray Alistair to have him recruited. I understand that Loghain was really trying to save Fereldan and that his fear and hatred to Orlay is justified, but the bottom line is that he crossed me and Alistair. --R0B45 (talk) 08:41, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

I have absolutelly no regret in executing him. He's a hero who became a villain. I could give him a chance to redempiton, but had absolutelly no desire. Any of my human nobles or elves cannot forgive him. My Cousland hated only Howe more and my Mahariel ans Tabris hated Caladrius only more. He allowed willingly them both to commit their crimes. I hate him for his treachery, but not so much to his daughter with his blood in her veins. I gave his daughter and Alistair the crown.

---

No. My Dalish elf Warden would always kill Loghain simply because he sells elves into slavery, and even dares to try and justify it. After reading the books, if it would be possible, I would like to call him out on how f*cking stupid he is before killing him again. I mean, seriously... he helped the elves and made the best archer squad in the damn rebellion, yet suddenly the elves only worth to be slaves?! Also there is absolutely no reason for him to give up on Rowan other than “woe is me, I value my country more than my own happiness”. At that point Maric would have gotten over losing his love even without a pity f*ck from Rowan and would have become a great ruler. That said, if my Warden was told that a warden is needed for killing the archdemon at that point in the game, she might have spared him.--SunyiNyufi (talk) 14:19, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

My Warden is also an Elf, but from the Alienage. So when he finds out about his own friends, neighbours, family being sold into slavery and then hears Loghain try to justify it he always kills him (Loghain) personally. I would've done it more slowly if the game had allowed it. EzzyD (talk) 14:31, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

No. Never. Actually, reading Stolen Throne made me hate him more, not less. Whatever Katriel had done, Loghain had no right to withhold from Maric vital information. I do not forgive such betrayals, especially because he never atoned for that. Besides, my Cousland was dead sure that Loghain orchestrated the Highever massacre as a preparation for his coup at Ostagar, and having barely recovered from the Fort Drakon experience, he very much wanted to kill Loghain with his own hands. The fact that he himself was developing a tendency to brutal pragmatism only fuelled the decision. - A little off-topic: anyone thinks that Alistair overreacted at the idea that the man who was responsible for the deaths of the only family he ever had was to be spared? Try suggesting Ned Cousland that he should spare Howe - or rather not, you don't want to see what would follow. --Ygrain (talk) 16:19, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

I spare him not because I am symphathetic towards him,but because I see him as another body to place between the darkspawn and my King (Alistair).The fact that he now has to take orders from someone He's done his damndest to kill is just a bonus.Oso27us (talk) 21:06, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

Always thought he was respectable. It's always said that he was doing what he thought that was right not caring for the cost, as if that justified it. I call it bullshit. Slavery, conspiracy, dividing the country, performing a coup d'état, mass murdering and a allowing a pscopathic mass murderer to do what he wanted is unjustifiable in ANY circunstances. You know what they say: "If that's what the world needs to be saved, perhaps it would be better that it perish".

Mandalore 22:16, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe the original poster and I are either just oddballs, or perhaps we just see the bigger picture, but it seems like no one here is the type to forgive those who are willing to atone for their crimes or those who are willing to admit when they were wrong (which Loghain does both). Well, what about all those potentially and sometimes unavoidable horrible things the Warden or Hawke can or must do? Why shouldn't your Warden pay for those crimes with death if you so believe that doing horrible things justifies death? Some unavoidable difficult decisions that the Warden must make is killing either the rightful heir to the Dwarven throne or killing the former Kings favored successor when both are loved by certain people. Having to choose between saving Amaranthine or the Vigil, leading to people dying in either one regardless, to which you get blamed for not saving the other. Siding with or against the Architect, doing either leads to both good and bad consequences. How about all those quests where you have to side with the Mages or the Templars? All of the damned if you do or damned if you don't types of quests lead you to make tough choices. You can argue your justifications of your choices all you'd like, but just like Loghain, he had to make tough choices and he made the decisions that he believed was for the betterment of Ferelden, just as the Warden or Hawke had to make theirs for the betterment of whatever cause they followed. Can you safely say that either choices are entirely right or wrong? All of their actions can be considered condemnable in some way, especially to the opposing side but yet, those choices are made. It just depends upon the perspective one is looking at.

Now for some of the more optional choices you can choose, things like killing an entire elven settlement with werewolves so they can help you defeat the darkspawn? Keeping Golems as slaves to use against the darkspawn? Killing innocent mages in the Circle of Magi to stop them? What about if you chose to spare Anders, or even recruit Sten? Both killed innocent people and did it to their knowledge with little remorse, and both admit to their crimes. If any one of you posters actually chose to do those types of things, how do you explain that without thinking of whom you've just killed or that you've supported people who have killed innocents? What if those people wanted vengeance on you or wanted your death? They'd have every right to condemn you just as you do against Loghain at that point. Even if you didn't chose any of those, simply look to my first paragraph on other decisions you've had to make. All I'm saying is, put yourselves in other people's shoes for once and maybe there will be more understanding. Celsis (talk) 07:07, March 15, 2012 (UTC)