Forum:Anders' Future Role In Dragon Age

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So... This is an idea that I thought of when talking about Anders on the chat. My first thread too.

Anyway, according to Anders' backstory for DA 2 he was stabbed in the heart in the short story that was written for him.

In this short story he is stabbed in the heart by a templar.

By this I mean that Anders might be "immortal" as it were...

So even if you do kill him, keep in mind 'tis all hypothetical, Anders MIGHT return even if he dies by the end of your game.

Thoughts?

Gaiden96 (talk) 18:15, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

I don't want him to come back regardless of player choice. There was precious little choice available in DA2, I'd hate to be told that my decisions once again don't matter. That said, if he does come back I'll gladly kill him again. Michael Largness (talk) 18:37, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Michael 100%. Anders must be dead, or die again. LVTDUDE (talk) 18:46, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Anders is easily the most unlikable character in DA. Ascension87 (talk) 18:48, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

I think Anders has served his purpose. If a player spared him, I'd expect to see a cameo in DA3. If a player killed him, I'd expect Anders to remain dead. Maybe there would be a Justice cameo instead in that case, with Justice talking about how altered his perspective had been while he was in a living human host, and how much he regrets his actions as Vengeance.--DarkAger (talk) 18:52, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

I thought he might come back as an antagonist, as in, Justice takes over Anders' body and tries to fight everything(one?) or Anders does die but comes back somehow, not as a bad retcon but like ACTUALLY comes back. Since him and Justice are one he is technically a spirit in physical form. Gaiden96 (talk) 19:25, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

I would actually like Justice to come back possessing Ander's corpse and looking for redemption for what Vengeance did. Probably as a future companion, would be a nice way to make an Arcane Warrior companion, as Justice was a Warrior, now possessing a dead mage... But that's quite unlikely to happen I suppose. Noctarius (talk) 20:04, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Zombie Anders, leading an army of zombie mages, demons and abominations...I might support this. The Grey Unknown (talk) 20:22, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Most of you are a bunch of Templar nazis, Anders is the best character in the series.HomelyDrugAddict (talk) 20:32, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Agree with Addict--NoRuleSix (talk) 01:57, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Hippy dippy mage hugger! Michael Largness (talk) 20:41, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Ignorant Zealot Faggot!Waffles (talk) 02:43, August 11, 2011 (UTC) SUPOGB

Hopefully the emo mage wont have a role at all as I killed him the second he decided to blow up the chantry.... god what a retard. Aleksandr the Great (talk) 20:53, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Only a retard would allow an organization like the Chantry to exist when they have the power to stop it. The guy's a Grey Warden (active duty or not), a Grey Warden that helped kill the Mother, helped save Kal'Hirol, took care of the Black Marsh, cleared the trouble out of the wending wood, and either saved Vigil's Keep or the City of Amaranthine. The guy's a hero, and blowing up the chantry was just another heroic move.HomelyDrugAddict (talk) 21:30, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Again, agree with Addict--NoRuleSix (talk) 01:57, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Reply to HomelyDrugAddict: are you the guy that comments on every video on youtube about how anders is a hero? In the videos of the killing or sparing sequence of anders? because if you are then I advise everyone to ignore him, because he would say something very similar to what he just said above me, if you are not then I am sorry for the little distraction. I forgot how to sign this stuff but my username on this is Ubiyosu123, there.

Uhhh.. Nope. Never actually saw him get killed yet. I'm going to do that in my current playthrough, I don't like watching spoilers on youtube even if I know what's going to happen (Still haven't seen Alistair's execution either, lol). I only ever call Anders a hero on YouTube on Norwegian right-wing nutjob videos to see if anyone gets the joke.HomelyDrugAddict (talk) 21:59, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Reply to HomelyDrugAddict: ohhh oki, because I remember a guy on youtube by the name of narnia something and he has been pestering me for a very longgg time about how he was a hero and how the chantry is a fascist, totalitarian, nazi ass**** government blah blah blah. But I don't really see all the hate for the chantry, they're cool in my honest opinion, I only really beleive they should loosen their grip on mages but that topic is for another thread. Ubiyosu123

That does sound exactly like what I would say.HomelyDrugAddict (talk) 22:07, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

If he does return, it just cements his status as the DA troll. If anything, they should have his face change again, to the troll face, his name changed to Anderp, and to always be naked, as it's abnormal, which he clearly is. It was shit me to tears if he comes back. S13Kuro (talk) 22:54, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

I agree, if he's dead he should stay dead. But seeing how dead doesn't seem to be the most permanent state of being in Thedas I would not be that surprised if he turned up in DA3. Infact I might just bet on it. Andy the Black (talk) 01:00, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, Anders wasn't that bad. I admire the fact that he was ballzy enough to do something that no one else would do. If you think about it, yeah, blowing up the chantry and killing innocent people is wrong and he does deserve to die. But, innocent people were dying anyway and all the Grand Claric was doing was chilling in the Chantry waiting for everyone to work it out even though she had the ultimate power to do something about it. Meanwhile, more and more people kept dying. What????? I felt like her priorities were a bit off. If the Divine is frickin' telling you to hide for safety, you should consider the fact that something was going to happen!!!! Anders did it to get rid of that tension that was obviously getting worse. He had reason if a bit extreme. However, to get back to the original topic of this forum, I never did like the joint combo of Justice and Anders. It was a bit much. When he started to irritate me, I just ignored him. Selective hearing or not bringing him everywhere was the key. If the player did kill him, he should stay dead. He has done his time and that should be that. Justice isn't a demon, he is a spirit and to my understanding, only demons can revive the dead. Them or blood mages. I could be getting this wrong however. Overall, I felt like Anders was the most complex companion and I wouldn't mind him returning but only if he was spared by your character's decision.--Fantasyeve87 01:04, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

I assume the DA3 confrontation with Anders will involve Wynne, both Spirit Healers, Both Sharing their bodies with (atleast formerly) benevolent spirits of the fade, kindred spirits that happen to have completely different viewpoints on the mages. Im guessing that it will be a sidequest where Wynne and a group of mages has tracked down Anders and a group of apostates, and the PC will have to decide who to help, and possibly have to kill one of them. 74.75.248.127 (talk) 01:27, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

What is more dangerous, a lyrium addicted Templar or a possible blood Mage? I do not know but Anders proves one vital fact, homosexuals are indeed dangerous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by NoRuleSix (talk • contribs) 01:57, August 9, 2011

NoRuleSix, that comment could be a little inflammatory. Be careful what you post. King Cousland | Talk 02:02, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

???????????--NoRuleSix (talk) 02:10, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Well, I left him in a pool of his own blood in front of the chantry. As long as that stays consistent, I'll be happy with his "future role".--XeroSnake (talk) 03:53, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Oh god another thread about Anders. Between this and all the DA 2 suxxors talk is the reason why I don't do forums as often as I used to.--B. Dynamite Tabris (talk) 04:24, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

People for Christ's sake keep the thread about what your opinions are on his future role(if you believe he will eve be a part of events to come if you kill him). No Anders hate, stick with the original topic.Gaiden96 (talk) 07:41, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Please no. Look I actually like Anders, I liked that they gave him a distinctive personality, instead of just making a happy go lucky mage. I killed him once, because it fitted my Hawke's personality. Now if Bioware brings him back. It will mean that NONE of the choices/quests in DA2 had an impact. Let's look at the choices: final battle mages or templars (epilouge same) All that remains (outcome the same) and killing anders or not. Shepard-commander (talk) 09:30, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Please don’t! Anders is not just some possessed mage with big WANTED on his forehead but also a Grey Warden, so he will not last much longer even if Hawke spared him in DA2.--DarnArletis (talk) 09:51, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

It's just tough because Anders is such an important character in DA2 and is in love with Hawke regardless of whether you hate him or love him. And if Hawke stays with him, how is he not important if he's alive? Venegeance's actions were the spark for an entire revolution. His role is likely over, but he still means a lot, either as a martyr or as a living legend for mages. As for my own opinion about him, I liked him in DA:A, disliked him in my first playthrough and now...I have mixed feelings, but I feel as if I really understand him and I feel bad for him now. He never wanted any of that to happen, he is the real Anders that has been changed by the douchebag he took into his soul. Xelestial (talk) 20:24, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

The problem that everyone here has, one that I have noticed throughout my observations of threads, is the constant complaint that your decisions don't matter. I'm sorry, but this isn't Mass Effect: Fantasy Edition, people. This isn't one main character's story where the decisions you make should have a major impact. Three Dragon Age core games, three different main characters. Stop getting attached to your character like they're Commander Shepard. Accept the fact that Dragon Age is more about the setting than it is the Player Character. Once you realize that, then perhaps you will be able to appreciate these games for what they do offer - A world far more warm and inviting than any other created before or since. Dragon Age is about Thedas, Mass Effect is about Shepard. You're just giving yourself an excuse to get worked up otherwise.--Archon Gaius Lucius Vindicus Caesar III (talk) 23:33, August 9, 2011 (UTC)--70.230.243.10 (talk) 22:45, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

If you can play through DA without getting attached to the Warden or Hawke, then good for you. Other people like to express themselves through the PC, so of course they will get pissy if Bioware comes up with a new PC for every game (myself included). --LordRevan25 (talk) 22:52, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

It isn't for lack of being attached to my characters. I have merely come to the understanding that Dragon Age has a different method of story-telling than Mass Effect, and I choose to love both for what they are instead of trying to eliminate successful methods of story-telling for the sake of appeasing Dragon Age fans who wish it was like Mass Effect. When you strip away all the arguments, and get to the core of the issue that is what you are left with. Two beloved games from the same developer, and you guys just wish there was only one way of telling the story.--Archon Gaius Lucius Vindicus Caesar III (talk) 23:38, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

EDIT: I <3 you, LordRevan25. Don't be mad at me~--Archon Gaius Lucius Vindicus Caesar III (talk) 23:45, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Didn't mean to sound dickish there....I suppose I'm just ticked at Bioware that they want to get rid of the PC at the end of every game (an element of KOTOR that I detested). Even though it does make sense that they might want to tell the story through a world instead of a person like ME. ANYway....I'mma shutup now :P.--LordRevan25 (talk) 00:46, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

Except that a world where player choice matters and our decisions have an impact is what we were promised. :P Oops. Seems the complaining is rather justified given the circumstances. Michael Largness (talk) 00:14, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think complaining is ever justified unless it's to the developer. I mean, we aren't BioWare, why should readers have to see it all the time? Aaaaaand we are now all totally off topic as this is about Anders in future DA games. Xelestial (talk) 13:21, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

Welcome to the internet, where topics change when people go off on tangents.

Outing a problem on a public forum, where a large user base can make a consensus on an issue has an impact, as we've already seen evidenced by Bioware's acknowledgement of our complaints. User reviews and public discussion, in addition to direct developer feedback are all important. The more of it there is, the more seriously these complaints will be taken. It's a no brainer. Just like promising somebody something then failing to produce it is going to generate negative backlash.

And the most obvious thing of all; Those with dissenting opinions are just as entitled to voice them as those who wish to decry them for daring to question something they hold in high regard. Some users may not want to hear them, but by the maker; they're going to have to. Michael Largness (talk) 13:42, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

In an ideal expansion (barring the realities of EA and Bioware's budget and deadline restrictions...I mean, why beat a dead horse?), I'd like to see all of romancable characters return if they were in a romance with Hawke, since it makes sense that they would continue to travel together. And I would especially like to see Anders return, since he's my character's romance, and I supported him in the end. In terms of plot, he could certainly play an important role in the mage revolution, since he's the one who sparked it. I personally felt that his struggle with Vengeance never quite resolved itself, either; seeing him come under complete control of Vengeance could be an interesting story, and whether he can accomplish this (with the help of Hawke) could have an impact on mages that doubt the cause of the revolution. 66.57.57.90 (talk) 15:49, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

Everybody is judging Anders on what he did. Though what he did was wrong in my eyes, I think he should disappear for being a whiny douche bag. Awakenings Anders was cool, good-looking and funny. Everybody liked him. DA2 Anders is just a lame ass. Keep him dead, please. LVTDUDE (talk) 22:56, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

Firstly. WTF. Fans didn't want DA to go more ME, BIOWARE DID. If anything, fans are pissed they went a cheap option and brought the two franchises so close that 2 sort of lost track of what made Origins unique.

But anyway. I thought what Anders did was a totally immoral action, regardless of his reasons. But in what I consider my 'canon' I spared him, and had him come with, to oust the Templars. So he would still be running around in my DA canon world. But logically, he won't have a major role in 3, as they wouldn't throw resources into furthering his character when some people won't even have him in their playthrough as he's gone. It's a similar situation to Loghain. S13Kuro (talk) 23:17, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, I'm pretty sure Anders "dies" in the Templar ending. As in executed. If you are in a romance with Anders and you do the Templar ending, he pretty much sounds final as he kisses your character goodbye. And in the epilogue Varric says "They all left Hawke's side", no bug with patch, and you can't break up with him in that ending. Xelestial (talk) 18:17, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think Anders' story is over yet because the war he's partially responsible for starting has just begun, and in regards to the chantry bombing I do agree it was extreme but when you factor in everything that was done to the mages (mass tranqils, terrorising families, executions etc) it is understandable the Grand Cleric was Meridith's boss and she could have at least tried to restrain her, anyway there does seem to be a lot of loose ends with Anders like his feelings about the war and what he did in kirkwall (as he didn't seem happy about either), his role in the war and the Anders/Justice problems aren't resolved yet.--Gboy4 (talk) 23:34, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

Has anybody considered what Anders/Justice did was actual justice, and not vengeance? I stand by Anders completely, action was needed. Justice wouldn't be ashamed or upset. 81.141.230.130 (talk) 23:42, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

I seem to recall Anders almost killing (killing in some playthroughs) a mage he was trying to rescue from a templar just because she called him a demon. (this was during his personal quest dealing with the Tranquil Solution) IMO the ends doesn't justify the means, and Anders/Justice/Vengeance was doing more harm than good.--LordRevan25 (talk) 23:51, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

Revan has it down. In his mission *looks* ... Dissent, at the end, the poor little mage girl freaks out when Justice shines through. Ander/Justice, AJ? loses his shit and is like "Can't you tell the difference?!" And either attempts to kill her, only to have Hawke intervene and save her, or evil Hawke lets him do his thing. Which shows AJ isn't exactly in complete control, or even in a state of sanity. But I put it all down to he and Justice not being able to handle their union. I played 2 before Awakening, so my first dealings with both Anders and Justice were the storyline of DA2. Going through Awakening, it really opened my eyes to a few things. Firstly, upon fusing with Justice, his attitude, demeanor, and actions are all altered. Awakening Anders was a fairly carefree type of dude, whereas 2 Anders has a weight on his shoulders nonstop.

Justice, he was a completely benevolent entity, seeking only to help those in need, he stands up to the evil mage in the fade, he's their only line of defense until you and your merry band arrive. He unintentionally ends up in our world through means not his own. He ends up stuck here, and in my play through of Awakening, Justice dies, or, the body of Kristoff he inhabits does, which, I'm guessing, must've left him in a spirit form in our world, otherwise he would've just been sent back to the fade. So he and Anders have a nice little chat, and end up fusificated. But this sort of thing had never happened before, and it had adverse affects on both separate entities. Justice was changed by Anders' rage, the rage Anders had held deep within him, regarding the oppression of mages. Justice had never experienced this kind of feeling before. I've read that these benevolent spirits of the fade were among the Maker's first creations, before man, and were somewhat incomplete. So I'm guessing Justice had no notion of anger, of rage, the opposite of demons, which are made entirely of those types of emotions. So Justice, almost like a naive child, was now exposed to things he had never encountered before, and due to the state he and Anders were in, changed, for the worse. Unfortunately for Anders, this meant he was slowly consumed by Justice, Justice began to take over, at times, entirely.

I see Anders' journey in DA2 as detailing his eventual change from the pretty easy going dude we first see, to the downright homicidal one we see by the end of it. He was no longer only affected by Justice in bursts, but at all times. He says you wouldn't be able to figure out where he ends and Justice begins, by the end of DA2, they've completely overlapped, and who Anders used to be, is pretty much entirely lost. I don't think Awakening Anders would've done what DA2 Anders did. So even if he and Justice were somehow separated, who he was in Awakening, would no longer be the person he would then be. Think back to Marethari's conversation with Hawke while trying to save Feynriel. She says that if he were to become possessed, even if you delete the demon from him, he would always be scarred. Maybe Justice being a part of Anders had the same type of affect, as a benevolent spirit had never been in the situation with a man (in the species sense) before. S13Kuro (talk) 02:32, August 11, 2011 (UTC)

Most of the peeps here are fucking zealot tools. Some of the greatest change in our world were brought about by actions like what Anders did. Anders is a revolutionary hero, and he was a sort of Robin Hood. The Chantry and it's Templar puppets deserve whatever comes to them and their supporters. ANDERS TO THE END! - Unsigned ___

Zealots? What are you assuming we believe in? I for one, as a player, and the characters I play as have no belief in the Chantry's teachings. That doesn't mean I, or the character's I play as think anyone can justify killing them, no matter what their opinion of them. You can't justify potentially killing completely innocent people who just happened to be in the Chantry building at the time of its destruction. It's a place of worship, chances are there were people there praying, or paying their respects to loved one who have passed, or doing some sort of charity work, or people actually in the Chantry like sisters who were completely innocent of any wrong doing the Chantry had a hand in, chances are there were children in there. If only one innocent person died due to what Anders did, he's a murderer. In fact, if even one guilty person died, he's a murderer. No one has the right to take another person's life. Even if you have a very strong reason to, you still put yourself in the firing line for punishment if you do. It doesn't matter what the Chantry as a whole had done, or what it represents, Anders made what I believe to be a very stupid choice in doing what he did. But I don't blame him. In my post above, I've said why I think he did what he did.

Yes, something needed to change. Killing people wasn't the way to go about that. If the Circle had someone at the head who wasn't as bad as anyone he opposed, maybe the Circle could've been united. If the Templars weren't lead by a person with unwavering fear of mages, and who was slowly being corrupted by an outside influence, maybe they could've been united. Had both factions been willing to come together and discuss the situation, maybe they could've both acknowledged that something needed to be done to improve the situation. But no, this wasn't the case. Anders/Justice decided to step in and make a move. I don't think this move was the right choice. S13Kuro (talk) 03:33, August 11, 2011 (UTC)

Anders should go face his calling. Go to the deep roads, kill as many darkspawn as he can before he dies. I think that's the right punishment for him.

Still, his actions are understandable. Blowing a building up is wrong, but so are many actions during wars.Gothic90 (talk) 15:17, August 11, 2011 (UTC)

My guess is that Anders will only have a small role in DA3 as a deathseeker if spared, hoping that he can die doing something positive for the world and so the people he killed in the Chantry can finally have some justice. As for the morality of what he did, it's a much more complicated issue. On one hand there were innocents in the chantry, but on the other hand the Chantry by it's sheer existence was allowing the Templars to get away with violating their own laws (the big one was no turning Mages who had passed their harrowing into Tranquil, yet that happened fairly frequently and nobody cared. The Mages were getting more and more oppressed, yet nobody was willing to admit that anything was wrong. So I give Anders a pass on this one; Meredith was only one bad day away from annuling the circle and killing every Mage in Kirkwall, and nobody was willing to do anything. Anders forced the issue so people couldn't ignore it anymore. --Shaoken (talk) 10:58, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

---

Going back to the original post at hand, I finally read Anders' short story. Don't know why I didn't before. Only helps me to feel worse about the whole thing and...I don't understand how he kept Justice under control for 7 years. He barely could right after they merged. I actually respect Anders more, because he never, ever wanted to do what Vengeance did and fought so long to understand what was himself, what was right, what was wrong. But how can you fight yourself, your own thoughts? Anders seems almost to have faded away or fully merged with with Vengeance except for some last vestiges of his old self, which rarely show. Can't understand how Hawke dealt with that.

Anyway, to the topic at hand: can Anders die? Look at this sentence: "And then his sword is level with my chest, and I let it come, because it is only steel and cannot hurt me, for I am not of mortal men. And when it sinks hilt-deep in my flesh with no reaction, that's when he gives up."

Hilt-deep? Wtf? Perhaps when he is in "Justice mode" his body is more ethereal than real- like he is a part of the Fade more than the real world. He also tears off a man's head in this mode with his bare hands. Pretty hard to do for a regular human, especially a physically weak mage.

"And suddenly I'm alone, standing in a burning forest, with the bodies of templars and wardens at my feet. So many, and I didn't even know they were there. Didn't even know I had killed them, but the evidence is all around me. Not the aftermath of a battle as I've known it, but a bloody abattoir of rent limbs and torn and eaten flesh."

This shows Anders was always pretty much an abomination, he just controlled it well for a long time. But...I don't think Anders can die. I'm not even sure if when you stab him in human mode and he appears to die if he's really dead or has taken any damage. Perhaps all we've done there is kill Anders, and let Vengeance completely take over. A disturbing thought, as Anders was mostly innocent in all of it, barring the initial mistake he had to take Justice into his soul. And now we might have a terrible abomination on the loose with no conscience, no soul to keep it in check any longer. That could be the future of Justice. But if you let him live, maybe it's better if Hawke could only keep an eye on him. Stabbing him or letting him loose seems like it will only bring further death to innocents. Xelestial (talk) 17:05, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

I am curious what justification there is to give Anders this level of invincibility. Templars and other mortals have spent a long time hunting and killing abominations, so what makes the Anders/Justice combination more powerful than say, the Uldred/Pride combination? Are we supposed to believe Justice spirits are just that much more powerful than, Pride demons? Or what? Were the people who tried to take him down just that weak? I don't even know anymore. Michael Largness (talk) 17:56, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

My guess is that Anders may be channeling a direct piece of the fade, (remember what Karl said? "It's like you brought a piece of the Fade here!") instead of having a Fade creature take over and inhabit his body? Also, maybe spirits can't be killed? I am unsure to be honest, as we have never tried to kill a Fade creature I think. Perhaps spirits are more powerful since they are the beings that embody the "best" virtues of mortals. There are too many unknowns to say "Hey that's totally impossible/possible". I am just going to assume it would be like trying to injure a Fade creature in the outside world, which would be more ethereal in nature I would assume. It's a little confusing because we never see spirits outside the fade, although we see their possibly much weaker counterparts, known as demons, and we know we can kill them inside or outside. Xelestial (talk) 18:09, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

From what I remember, you had to use some magical thingy against Uldred to prevent him from regenerating by sucking out life of hostage mages. Maybe it's the same with Janders - the moment he got poked, some poor sod nearby found himself life-free. As for his future fate, no chance he'll go on and into 3 - his story arc is clearly finished. If Bioware continues with mage revolution line though, it's a safe bet he'll be mentioned. Dorquemada (talk) 18:15, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

Good memory, that's true. Plus perhaps Justice and Anders are a particularly powerful abomination, they sure appear to be. Anyway, while his story arc may be over as a part of the main story, I can't see them letting him run around being an abomination without making something of it. It's pretty clear to me that unless BioWare contradicts themselves, he can't be killed easily. By easily I mean by execution or by a knife in his back. Xelestial (talk) 18:20, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

It may be different this time, because he - well, they - wants to die. However twisted Vengeance is, I believe he retained at least some aspects of his former Justice entity and realizes what was done by him was an injustice to people who died in explosion. Enough a reason for a single purpose spirit to self-terminate, and take Anders along. Dorquemada (talk) 18:27, August 12, 2011 (UTC)