Forum:Alternate View of Creation of the Blight

Forums: Index > Lore DiscussionAlternate View of Creation of the Blight

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So the question of how the blight came about seems pretty easily defined within the game by the Chantry. But even they admit that the Old Gods are buried deep under the earth so why are the Tevinter Mages going through the Fade to the Golden City to free them?

There's also the question of why do Archdemons who are obviously of dragon origin look different than standard High Dragons? Current belief in the game tells that it's Old Gods or High Dragons that are tainted by the blight.

So where does the blight come from? It couldn't come from the Golden City if it had no signs of taint before the Tevinter Mages and it couldn't come from the game world if it also showed no signs of blight or taint before or after the creation of the Black City by anything other than the Darkspawn.

Here's a theory.

If dragons are intelligent then it's completely possible that they are also capable of dreaming and thus entering the Fade by some degree or another. Just add a touch of magical ability, something that pretty much all dragons in role-playing games like Dragon Age are, and any dragon could become an Abomination. Since Abomination's often become twisted and malformed this would account for the change in the form of each of the five Old Gods from natural dragons. However there is no certainty that dragons inhabit only the game world.

If the Fade is more of a space between planes of existence then dragons from another plane could have become Abominations; learning blood magic from demons, like you gain the blood mage specialization, in the process. The specialization Reaver is also a form of blood magic where the Reaver uses the magic from the dragon blood to taint himself and give himself blood abilities. A skill which was likely learned from a demon who appeared as Andraste to one of the cult members within the game. This would intone that dragons, even in the game world, likely come from a different plane since the Reaver specialization is so much like Avernus' improvement on the taint. Blood from a different plane creates a taint.

The only reason that Darkspawn are so easily found underground is the increase in lyrium which would allow for a physical transfer from a Darkspawn plane to Fereldan much easier. Darkspawn don't dig for Old Gods but massive lyrium deposits which are much more likely to be found than a single body. In fact it's completely possible that Darkspawn mine lyrium and bring it to a central summoning spot.

So either the taint was created by way of learning blood magic or because the Tevinter Mages accidentally tainted the dragons, who demons appeared as in the Fade, when invading the Golden City. Either way it was likely demons that caused the blight in the first place, although the motives are uncertain. What did happen after the dragons became tainted, or Abominations, is easily deducible. The dragons tied the Darkspawn to them by way of getting the creatures to drink their blood. This made the Darkspawn slaves to the tainted dragons/Archdemons and incapable of singular, independent thought.

Much like Grey Wardens who survive the taint eventually become Darkspawn so do Darkspawn who drink Grey Warden blood become more human. They regain their independence by way of distorting their original blood source and watering down the taint that allows them to be easily controllable. Either way they are no longer dupes of the demons who started the entire genocide in the first place by teaching blood magic to either the dragons or the Tevinter Mages.

Since only five dragons seem to have flourished in the Darkspawn's alternate plane it is obvious that the final Archdemon likely chose to aid the Darkspawn gain their independence to continue the war against the humans, elves, and dwarves. In fact, it is likely that such a paltry blight was brought forth only so that Fereldans didn't realize that the death of the final Archdemon was necessary to set the Darkspawn's freedom in stone.

Finally, Morrigan doesn't bring forth the soul of an Old God in her child but brings forth the soul of an very, very, very old dragon who would have an inherent understanding of the Darkspawn and would understand how to control them or defeat them better than any other person.

Nathan.loiselle (talk) 21:35, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

"why are the Tevinter Mages going through the Fade to the Golden City to free them?" They were not, the opening sceen of DA:O will correct you in this matter. "They regain their independence by way of distorting their original blood source and watering down the taint" No, they take the Wardens resistance to the taint, talking to Arch well correct you in this matter. "So where does the blight come from?" From the Golden City, tainted black by sin. "In fact it's completely possible that Darkspawn mine lyrium and bring it to a central summoning spot." NO, this is corrected by reading about "The Calling" Novel or playing Awakining. (153.107.97.152 (talk) 23:59, November 22, 2010 (UTC))

It's a nice theory, but I have to agree with the above post. Most of your points are corrected by in-game sources, or by the novels. It is a very interesting theory, though. Moloko Symboro (talk) 00:49, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

In all fairness the Archdemons look different because they are corrupted. A lot more light is shed on this if you read the second book. (King of the Dusters (talk) 16:45, November 23, 2010 (UTC))

I must congratulate the work you had to create all this but... Dragons have the intelligence of an avarege donphin. This has been confirmed even before Origins was launched, so yup, they ain't very smart. Or are, depends on your standard of smart (I know people dumber than dolphins, so...) The Bard From Hell (talk) 00:50, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

I give you credit for your effort and while it may be wrong it has me wondering... If the various beliefs of the Maker not being an All-being are to be true, then how did the Blight start if not divine (and somewhat psychotic) punishment? --Xiorath (talk) 03:44, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

Idea: The Golden city contained the taint and infected the spirit of the Mages who entered, thus escaping into the world. Think of it as the magical version of Ebola (Ebola is believed to have come from a cave) with the Golden City being the cave. As for how archdemons factor into it, they could just be dragons who have slept for so long that the lad has changed around them, what was once a cave is now part of the Deep. Or these are the Dragons known as Old Gods, and they fear and hide from the taint. Hmmm, not a bad explanation if I say so myself, but it doesn't explain why Darkspawn are called to the Old Gods (the mages connection lingering just raises more questions), Why the Golden city turned black, why the taint was only in the city and it doesn't mesh with Awakening at all.

(Knight Templar (talk) 04:11, November 24, 2010 (UTC))

There are various ancient (from almost 6 months ago) treads about the origin of darkspawn here on the wiki. My personal theory is that they were never created, but were always there, hiding in the depts until they were unleashed upon the world. As for the Old Gods I don't think they are dragons, but something in the body of dragons, like a very powerful spirit (hey, there's a God after the Old) or demon. But well, we'll have to wait until some definitive, official answer comes. The Bard From Hell (talk) 14:55, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

hey just on a side note you do realise dolghins are as smart as humans smarter even they just cant create things like we do.--(Darkhands55 (talk) 16:31, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

Intelligence is nigh-on impossible to quantify. It's a broad and loose defintion, of which most 'tests' for it only cover limited portions of it. Dolphins may exhibit much behaviour similar to humans, but can they do mathematics or understand Newton's 3rd law? Whilst certainly remarkable as far as animals go, it's still not enough to place them fully 'equal' to humans. But the debate is extremely off-topic. Phylarion (talk) 16:58, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

Well if you go by educational boards definition, dolphins could be our equal since they were never given the opportunity of education, that's how they justify the millions of humans in third world countries who can't do math and have no clue who Newton even is. (Besides dolphins are one of the only other animal proven to have sex for pleasure which is a sign of higher cognation) But back on topic, I could see some weight in the theory about a disease (taint) trapped within the Golden City. It could've been that the Golden City was turned Black before then and the "Black" was the taint. Going by various references that the Black City is separate from the Fade it could be that the Fade creatures sealed it off long ago to prevent the taint spreading through the Fade. Then for some reason the mage's go there and turn all Darkspawnish and.... (okay so I have no clue what happens next but its a start :P) --Xiorath (talk) 19:49, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

So the question of how the blight came about seems pretty easily defined within the game by the Chantry. But even they admit that the Old Gods are buried deep under the earth so why are the Tevinter Mages going through the Fade to the Golden City to free them?

The Old Gold the Mages to take the golden city for themselves to gain the power of the maker, similar to what Adam and Eve tried to do by eating the Forbidden Fruit.

There's also the question of why do Archdemons who are obviously of dragon origin look different than standard High Dragons? Current belief in the game tells that it's Old Gods or High Dragons that are tainted by the blight.

The game tells us it's Old Gods, never says anything about High Dragons being tainted by the Blight. As to why they look different, look at a tainted bear or wolf. They sure do look different than a regular bear or wolf.

So where does the blight come from? It couldn't come from the Golden City if it had no signs of taint before the Tevinter Mages and it couldn't come from the game world if it also showed no signs of blight or taint before or after the creation of the Black City by anything other than the Darkspawn.

From the Maker's wrath. And your next statement is contradictory: of course the Golden City didn't show any taint before the Tevinter Mages: the game makes it perfectly clear they taint it with their sin. And No, the Black City was the Golden City tainted and cursed by the Tevinter Mages.

Here's a theory.

If dragons are intelligent then it's completely possible that they are also capable of dreaming and thus entering the Fade by some degree or another.

The game makes it perfectly clear as well that dragons are not intelligent. Clever yes, intelligent, no. The Old Gods are a completely different subject, since no one has ever seen an untainted Old God to tell us what it really is, but I'm quite sure they're not your average High Dragon, fearsome as they may be.

Just add a touch of magical ability, something that pretty much all dragons in role-playing games like Dragon Age are, and any dragon could become an Abomination. Since Abomination's often become twisted and malformed this would account for the change in the form of each of the five Old Gods from natural dragons. However there is no certainty that dragons inhabit only the game world.

Okay? Just because something exists elsewhere doesn't mean it exists in Dragon Age. Cars exist here, guns exist in Mass Effect, and elves are short and scrawny in Santa's Castle, but that doesn't mean here it has to be. There's no in game proof to say Dragons have magic (Old Gods aside) so I say they don't have magic. Until you prove otherwise, then this entire theory stops here. And again, Old Gods are not natural dragons. And again, we must assume dragons have the same laws applying to them as the other creatures of this world, Humans included, until proven otherwise. We have no proof, besides Queen of the Blackmarsh, that dragons can inhabit the Fade, and that was only done with the help of a powerful bloodmage.

If the Fade is more of a space between planes of existence then dragons from another plane could have become Abominations;

Noooooooooooooooooo. The fade IS the other plane of existance. There is our world, and then beyond the Veil, there is the Fade. These two worlds are the only two referenced in the Game, and they're the only ones that exist until proven otherwise (various heaven/hell scenarios aside). The Maker created the Fade to be the realm of spirits, and created our world to be the realm of physical things, dragons included.

learning blood magic from demons, like you gain the blood mage specialization, in the process. The specialization Reaver is also a form of blood magic where the Reaver uses the magic from the dragon blood to taint himself and give himself blood abilities. A skill which was likely learned from a demon who appeared as Andraste to one of the cult members within the game. This would intone that dragons, even in the game world, likely come from a different plane since the Reaver specialization is so much like Avernus' improvement on the taint. Blood from a different plane creates a taint.

You're giving me a headache. First, the blood from the Dragon, with blood magic performed on it, does allow for the memories of the Reavers to come into the Warden's head, which he can then use to be a Reaver. If you read the actual description, it says Demonic Spirits teach the skills to be a Reaver, not Dragon blood. Actually, I'm glad you brought Avernus up. Because, Avernus says that the taint is alien both to the demons, and the people of this world. So, that means it has no origins in fade spirits at all.

The only reason that Darkspawn are so easily found underground is the increase in lyrium which would allow for a physical transfer from a Darkspawn plane to Fereldan much easier. Darkspawn don't dig for Old Gods but massive lyrium deposits which are much more likely to be found than a single body. In fact it's completely possible that Darkspawn mine lyrium and bring it to a central summoning spot.

A direct quote from the Architect says he found the actual archdemon. Like, the actual dragon thing. He tried his reverse taint on it and it became tainted anyway. Sad.

So either the taint was created by way of learning blood magic or because the Tevinter Mages accidentally tainted the dragons, who demons appeared as in the Fade, when invading the Golden City. Either way it was likely demons that caused the blight in the first place, although the motives are uncertain. What did happen after the dragons became tainted, or Abominations, is easily deducible. The dragons tied the Darkspawn to them by way of getting the creatures to drink their blood. This made the Darkspawn slaves to the tainted dragons/Archdemons and incapable of singular, independent thought.

Wow, there is so much wrong here. One, the taint is pretty much said to come from tevinter mages trying to bust into the GOlden City, not dragons. Second, Avernus tells us that demons are afraid of Darkspawn. The rest of your argument is irrelevant because of what I have told you here.--Rathian Warrior (talk) 16:35, November 25, 2010 (UTC)

Man, I was missing your destruction of theories around here! The Bard From Hell (talk) 20:18, November 25, 2010 (UTC)

heres a rthing what if the taint is just a disease a disease that just randomly happned and started to infect peopl wouldent that make more sence. and on a side note dhow do you know if dolphins cant do maths we dont exactlly have the ability to ask them.--(Darkhands55 (talk) 00:23, November 26, 2010 (UTC))

The Blight is not "just a disease... that just randomly happned", it's so much more than any illness, it creates illness in addition to the taint. The Call of the Old Gods for example, the Golden city turning Black, the Architect and his followers do not stop being Darkspawn once they gain resistance. In refrence to the comment on dolphins: It doesn't matter what they might be able to learn because even if a dolphin could understand Trig that doesn't mean Dragons could and vice versa. (Knight Templar (talk) 01:43, November 26, 2010 (UTC))

whats to say it isnt a disease their is no proof that it is not mayby the dwafes dug to greedly and too deep (lol lord of the rings) and they released a disease that had been underground for centuries the black death was a disease and that was so much more than any illness and the call of the old gods whos to say thats not just a halucanation a side effect that gives them a connection to the old gods basically what im trying to say here is YOU HAVE NO PROOF THAT IT AINT.--(Darkhands55 (talk) 00:12, November 27, 2010 (UTC))

That explination doesn't account for the Black city, the call of the Old Gods is real, as are the Dragons themselves. It also does not account for The BLight. A disease that afftects everything, even the sky? It cannot be something so mundane, ergo I do have proof. The taint is a sickness by analogy. (Knight Templar (talk) 01:09, November 27, 2010 (UTC))

@Knight Templar, You do of course realize that the part about the Black City could be made up crap from the Chantry, right? Also seeing as the taint is transfered by blood or bodily fluids it could very well be a disease. Then your bit about the sky, could be explained by tainted magic (The powers Avernus was trying to unlock in Warden Blood). The dragons, archdemons, Old Gods, whatever, could be using magic to control creatures that is far more effective against tainted creatures who could have far less willpower due to the taints (or diseases) effect on the brain. Notice that in DSC that the archdemon was quite intelligent so I'd say its not an ordinary dragon. It might be magic it uses to enthrall creatures. The Grey Wardens still hear the Archdemon and have its magic over them, but over time the resistance wears thin therefore they go seek the creature and disappear or marauder themselves. The darkspawn who are freed by the Architect can't hear the call anymore, but this could be from chemical reactions in the brain (taint vs. resistance) causing it to block out the call completely like some sort of psych drug.

Now that I have made my sort of half hearted point that it is possibly a disease, it will probably be brutally massacred by Rathian Warrior. But the true point of this is... we don't have all the pieces therefore we don't have PROOF of anything dealing with lore. --Xiorath (talk) 01:44, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

The Blight is divided between a disease, such as what Ruck and possibly Wesley (DAII, Aveline's husband) have, which is called taint, and the true Blight, the corruption of the very realm of reallity. Old Gods are GODS for a reason! They are powerful, it's not so hard to imagine that such a being, even in all the insanity that is caused by the taint (Archdemons are tainted) a creature that powerful can still affect many things, like the sky. No disease f*cks the very lifeless sand! I mean, one thing is the ground becoming infertile, but just look at one image of the Blightlands from any concept art or those screenshots from DAII and tell me: is there any disease that can do that? Or is it even possible for a disease to do that. Besides, darkspawn are no ordinary people driven mad by a sickness, they are a totally different race with their own subdivisions. They are in itself parasites that procriate by rape and puke (Broodmothers), but to say they are just people who catch a disease is too far fetched. They aren't mindless beast or insane people like victims of say, T-Virus, they are simply another species, like dogs, humans, darkspawn...

I know I might have exceded myself in this, but really, saying it's "just a disease" is a bit too much. I don't believe in the "Maker's Wrath" crap, but trying to come up with a scientific explanation for events in a fantasy setting rarelly ends well. The Bard From Hell (talk) 02:20, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

Everyone has read the codex entry for lyrium. right?

"Mages have additionally been known to suffer physical mutation: The magister lords of the Tevinter Imperium were widely reputed to have been so affected by their years of lyrium use that they could not be recognized by their own kin, nor even as creatures that had once been human."

Could this have anything to do with the origin of darkspawn? Isn't the description of the magisters returning from the Golden City (who became the first darkspawn) similar to the description of magisters corrupted by lyrium overexposure? Seems like a blatant clue... Binary-Fishing (talk) 14:41, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

The effects of long-term excessive Lyrium use are not catching, and don't even make you look like Darkspawn. Furthermore that fails to account for Grey Wardens, the Call, the Blight and the Taint itself. (Knight Templar (talk) 01:37, December 1, 2010 (UTC))

IF the Archdemons are are actually the Old Gods turned into abominations, their offspring(modern living Dragons) might have had their connections to the Fade severed by the Maker when he sealed the OG's away to prevent new ones from emerging becoming posessed and tainting more mages. You could certainly argue Dragons being intelligent, then.

It also makes Morrigan's endgame choice and DLC ending make more sense... (Snake Gryphon (talk) 13:39, December 2, 2010 (UTC))

It dosn't makes sense if the Maker don't exist (and there are quite a few hints that he don't exist, along with a few that he is real. Besides, if memory serves me right, the devs said that we're yet to find out the truth, and makes me doubt the Maker is real in first place). The Bard From Hell (talk) 21:41, December 1, 2010 (UTC)

Well if popular opinion is any indication, it seems quite likely that the Maker is indeed not real. --Xiorath (talk) 05:30, December 2, 2010 (UTC)

heres a rthing what if the taint is just a disease a disease that just randomly happned and started to infect peopl wouldent that make more sence.

It would make about as much sense as your spelling. Read the codex entry on the broodmothers: it says clearly that the darkspawn don't grab and taint humans, they're born from broodmothers as a separate entity. Ghouls are what you're thinking of with the Taint, but ghouls=/=darkspawn.

and on a side note dhow do you know if dolphins cant do maths we dont exactlly have whats to say it isnt a disease their is no proof that it is not mayby the dwafes dug to greedly and too deep (lol lord of the rings) and they released a disease that had been underground for centuries the black death was a disease and that was so much more than any illness

The black death was not much more than a disease, it was a disease and that was it. The social upheaval and stuff that followed, that was mass hysteria, not the black death. And again, the dwarves would not have been driven back by some disease. Lots and lots of darkspawn, yes.

and the call of the old gods whos to say thats not just a halucanation a side effect that gives them a connection to the old gods basically what im trying to say here is YOU HAVE NO PROOF THAT IT AINT.the ability to ask them.

Errebuddeh forgets the Mother and the Architect, both of whom say they miss the call of the Archdemon. You can't. And if Grey Wardens have dreams about it, and darkspawn follow it, when they're usually killing each other, then I'm willing to bet it's a lot more than hallucination.

You do of course realize that the part about the Black City could be made up crap from the Chantry, right?

You can see the black city from the Fade. It's not made up.

Also seeing as the taint is transfered by blood or bodily fluids it could very well be a disease.

The taint is just a part of the Blight, which is the darkspawn wiping out everything. Yes, they transfer the taint, but it's unnatural and corrupting. The Tevinter mages and Duncan could see it! Elven healing magic couldn't get rid of it! That's not a simple sickness.

Then your bit about the sky, could be explained by tainted magic (The powers Avernus was trying to unlock in Warden Blood).

No, Avernus was working on unlocking the taint, not darkspawn magic.

The dragons, archdemons, Old Gods, whatever, could be using magic to control creatures that is far more effective against tainted creatures who could have far less willpower due to the taints (or diseases) effect on the brain.

The taint is not magic. The taint is alien to magic. Avernus says demons avoid it.

Notice that in DSC that the archdemon was quite intelligent so I'd say its not an ordinary dragon. It might be magic it uses to enthrall creatures. The Grey Wardens still hear the Archdemon and have its magic over them, but over time the resistance wears thin therefore they go seek the creature and disappear or marauder themselves. The darkspawn who are freed by the Architect can't hear the call anymore, but this could be from chemical reactions in the brain (taint vs. resistance) causing it to block out the call completely like some sort of psych drug.

The freed darkspawn aren't using Grey Warden blood like a drug. They're taking the resistance to the taint into themselves. I don't pretend to know how the Archdemon is able to command the darkspawn, but if it was simple magic, why couldn't an emissary do the same thing and lead a blight? Why does it have to be this great and terrible creature?

Now that I have made my sort of half hearted point that it is possibly a disease, it will probably be brutally massacred by Rathian Warrior. But the true point of this is... we don't have all the pieces therefore we don't have PROOF of anything dealing with lore.

At least you knew what was coming.

"Mages have additionally been known to suffer physical mutation: The magister lords of the Tevinter Imperium were widely reputed to have been so affected by their years of lyrium use that they could not be recognized by their own kin, nor even as creatures that had once been human." Could this have anything to do with the origin of darkspawn? Isn't the description of the magisters returning from the Golden City (who became the first darkspawn) similar to the description of magisters corrupted by lyrium overexposure? Seems like a blatant clue...

Lyrium addiction would not lead to the darkspawn, broodmothers, tainted old gods, or anything like that.

IF the Archdemons are are actually the Old Gods turned into abominations, their offspring(modern living Dragons) might have had their connections to the Fade severed by the Maker when he sealed the OG's away to prevent new ones from emerging becoming posessed and tainting more mages. You could certainly argue Dragons being intelligent, then.

The archdemons were thrown into the ground BEFORE the mages tried to bust into the fade. They wouldn't have created new dragons if they had been roaming the earth, assuming you're correct.Rathian Warrior (talk) 13:51, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

I meant the regular Dragons that were already born (Their offspring). If Old God was a stage in their life cycle, that is.

Sorry for not clarifying.

(talk) 19:29, December 4, 2010 (UTC)

since the chantry is a religion you shouldnt take it seriously, that means you shouldnt take the chant's version as truth unless the creators say so. Hakuteiken (talk) 20:44, December 4, 2010 (UTC)