Skrim is an AMAZING game and is hands down the best RPG ever. I am a diahard Dragon Age fan but Skyrim has blown me away. The story, the depth, the variety, is second to none. I really dont know how DA3 could top it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.138.234.15 (talk) 21:06, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
I personally believe that to be an unfair comparison, as they are both different styles of game. It's like comparing a bicycle to a motorcycle. They both have two wheels and blah blah blah, but they are definately not the same thing. (Please pardon the bad analogy) --Isolationistmagi (talk) 03:07, December 3, 2011 (UTC)
- Oh, that is perfect analogy - they both are rpg and meant for entertainment, but Skyrim just like motorcycle, has a lot more effort, money put into it, and it performs better, it also consists of many more parts ^_^.
- Now i just like to add to that, that art, models, soundtracks and overall quality of the game is higher in Skyrim than in DA2.
Frozenkex (talk) 17:42, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
You do realize there are at least three complete wikis devoted entirely to Skyrim, right? Why do you feel the need to post here about it at all? You lost, little troll?
EDIT: Isolationmagi, a better analogy would be comparing a baked potato to mashed potatoesRathian Warrior (talk) 03:11, December 3, 2011 (UTC)
- ...They both taste delicious?71.200.129.183 (talk) 03:22, December 3, 2011 (UTC)
Both potatoes and both delicious, but both different meals with different strengths. Rathian Warrior (talk) 03:33, December 3, 2011 (UTC)
- That is most definately a better analogy.--Isolationistmagi (talk) 04:01, December 3, 2011 (UTC)
Skyrim has a huge open world and a lot of freedom for the player, but its story is extremely shallow and pointless. NPCs are not at all interesting, with every character about as lifelike as a mannequin. DA's strength is in its story and strategic combat. The comparison is very inapt. Whocares65 (talk) 03:44, December 3, 2011 (UTC)
meh, it's cool that you love the game and you're definitely not alone in that regard, but the two series aren't really THAT similar style wise. One being open world, incredibly non-linear, and not super character driven, and the other being Dragon Age. That said, Bioware still needs to step it up because I doubt there will be anything past DA3 (assuming it's made) if they're as disappointed by its sales as they were with DA2's. TKismyname (talk) 04:32, December 3, 2011 (UTC)
Like everyone else has said. They're both great games, but for different reasons. My analogy would be athletes. You have the bulky weight lifter and the scrawny marathon runner. They are both very different in body type, strengths, and weaknesses. But you can't point to one and say they are any less an athlete. They are strong competitors in their own events.GoldenNightKnight (talk) 07:12, December 3, 2011 (UTC)
Like everyone else has said, you can't compare to TES with DA. Granted Skyrim has received better reviews and such like for their game but you can't compare. I personally agree that it's a better game, but that's due to personal taste (and the fact that as stand alone game DA2 may have been good but as a sequel it was piss-poor). They may be similar in the sense that there is magic and elves and what not, but they are both very different types of game. But I used to be like the OP; I used to post everywhere that Skyrim is awesome... then I took an arrow in the knee. :P (DDragonfly1990 (talk) 12:02, December 3, 2011 (UTC))
I agree that the two games, Skyrim and DA, are different in many ways, but the target audiences are largely the same now. So you can compare them. So few RPG's exist now, that it is impossible NOT to compare them at this point. That said, personally, I did not like Morrowind at all, quitting about ten hours in. I played oblivion to completion once and still have no idea whatsoever what the story really was, or what I was doing most of the time, so TES games are not my thing really. They're pretty and worth exploring, but have usually failed to hold my attention. That said, having played Skyrim now for about a week (my first game since DA2 by the way), I admit freely it is a far superior product than DA2 was. The production and care put into the game alone slams DA2 to the ground so hard, Bioware actually should be embarrassed. So in that sense, I completely agree that Bioware had better step it up. Bioware can compete financially in the sense that TOR will sell very well (we'll see if it sustains though) and ME3 will be hyped as the second coming (I personally doubt it will be as well received as the first two, as they have tinkered too much probably here also) but as far as being top dog in the RPG community? Honestly, Bioware may cede that title inside of the next six months. If they haven't already. It just goes to show that commercializing and dumbing down products in an attempt to bring in the larger audience may seem to make sense, financially, but it doesn't always work. And disagree if you want, but this is Bioware, and EA's, strategy now. Making a truly great game now may end up being more of a happy accident from here on out. Here's hoping I'm wrong though. We'll see when ME3 hits... The Grey Unknown (talk) 14:56, December 3, 2011 (UTC)
Okay, I love Dragon Age because of the witty banter. I loved DAO's story and was one of the people that actually thought DA2's multiple story lines was a good thing. All that said, SKYRIM is head and shoulders above Dragon Age. You can just get totally lost in this world. Want to slay a dragon? Okay. Want to be a werewolf? Okay. Want to craft your own armor from scratch, even smelting the ore? Okay. Wanna catch some butterflies to make a potion? Yep! How about walk in a completely different direction so you don't get massacred by the giant that will pummel you senseless? Yes, you can. What I love about SKYRIM is that I don't feel like I'm being led by the hand. I could die at any moment. And, if you haven't experienced the thrill of walking into a an underground chamber and hearing the chanting that signifies you are about to discover a new dragon shout...well you're missing out. So, for the correct analogy. Dragon Age is being pushed at high speed through a parking lot, in a rickety shopping cart, by your best friend. SKYRIM is being handed the keys to a brand new Ferrari and being told- "Enjoy my friend. Go where you will. Have a blast." Oh yeah, they're both fun, but which would you choose? LVTDUDE (talk) 15:10, December 3, 2011 (UTC)
I haven't beat Skyrim yet, but I'm pretty far into the main quest, and Origins is still a better game. That being said, Skyrim is leagues above Dragon Age 2. The Elder Scrolls can't touch Dragon Age's writing though, even all the crappy plot holes and subpar writing in DA2 left me with a more vested interest in the characters than Skyrim's GOOD writing. I care far more about the struggle for mage freedom more than I do about either side in Skyrim's rebellion. It's apples and oranges though, if you ask me. OneDeadTemplar (talk) 16:43, December 3, 2011 (UTC)
I concur on the 'apples and oranges' point of OneDeadTemplar's. Myself, I'm not that extremely impressed by Skyrim - it has good visuals and such, but the plot and writing don't create any feeling remotely resembling the one I had while playing DA:O. And nice graphics don't allow a game to have a subpar plot. I've finished the Mage, Thief and Assassin lines and approaching the end of the Warrior one, and while the Thief one was comparatively nice, and the Assassin one somewhere below it, the rest are not exactly impressive at all (only bits of the Warrior one); I haven't gone down the main quest path yet, though that means I'm not fighting dragons yet. Skyrim's writing is, yes, still better than DA2's, but only in some ways, while in others it's no better. As a whole, Bethesda games never fail to create that sense of metagaming detachment that may or may not accompany immersion. Bioware games don't do that. But again, their games are built along different lines. Comparing them on the same criteria is like comparing apples and oranges. Myself, I'm only comparing my impressions of them.The Ranged Man (talk) 19:53, December 3, 2011 (UTC)
I'd like to repeat my original question of why this was brought up in the first place. Rathian Warrior (talk) 19:57, December 3, 2011 (UTC)
- Very good question. So we're down to this writing walls of pointless comparisons?-Algol- (talk) 00:34, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
- Someone got bored. --Isolationistmagi (talk) 04:12, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
comparing the two games is like comparing night and day... the elder scrolls series has always been a great sandbox RPG that lets you just go and explore the world. However, that being said, Bioware is known for story... and I know its been mentioned before but I'll go ahead and say it again, The narrative i got in DAO, more then makes up for ANYTHING the elder scrolls series brings to the table... I've beaten Skyrim, not just the main story, I'm talking main story multiple faction quests, etc etc, and i gotta say at some point.. its just boring... How many times am I expected to kill the same kind of dragon "randomly" in the world? You pick a side in the rebellion and then what? everyone just talks about "how the war is going" but there was never any real closure.. Skyrim didnt set any sort of standard with RPGs that needs to be followed... Bethesda made a good game to be sure, but nothing from it needs to carry over into the Dragon Age franchise. DAO offered great characters with deep backgrounds.. hidden secrets, personality changes, surrounded by so much lost lore... Skyrim? Skyrim has what elder scrolls has always had.. "lost dwarves" DA2 was a misstep to be sure, but the way i see it, bioware can learn from it, and provide better whenever 3 comes out... "Legacy" gave me the most hope to date... Warden Mage: Ferris (talk) 05:56, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
The two games are like a lover... or maybe a burglar. Either they ravish you or runs off with all your jewelry. And you have to run them down and stab them in the heart. And... that metaphor got a bit away from me, didn't it? --Occam's Razor 06:22, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
If we want to continue wasting cyberspace we may as well do something more interesting than this. Who wants to argue over Loghain? I think if he was in charge of the Empire in Skyrim, he'd have totally bossed Alduin in the opening scene and then personally beheded Ulfric. Thoughts?Rathian Warrior (talk) 07:11, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
Loghain bowls overhand. Tommyspa (talk) 07:19, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
Troll more MR. who doesn't dare to sign your own name. Away with you troll. --NobleHumanRocks (talk) 10:15, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
I'm just gonna say this Skyrim is a GREAT GAME but NOT A GREAT RPG. There is a difference. Skyrim's RPG elements have become far more shallow and suitable to a wider audience than those of previous TES games. Authsaelor (talk) 13:14, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
- Not to mention that the majority of audience, who now screams "SKYRIM TEH BEST RPG EVAR!!!" wasn't even born, when Daggerfall came out.-Algol- (talk) 13:23, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
- Exactly, some people aren't even familiar with the TES series, not to mention the RPG genre as a whole, and already claim Skyrim is the best one ever. Authsaelor (talk) 13:49, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
Comparing Dragon Age and Skyrim is a natural thing to do; indeed, I find myself comparing the two as I play. They do both feature dragons btw. :) Sure, they're very different in many ways but the target audience is basically the same as The Grey Unknown pointed out earlier.
There's good news for BioWare here btw; namely, there's still lots of money to be made in RPG video games. TES 5 (aka Skyrim) shipped 7 million units worldwide for launch and sold more than 50% of those in two days. Big money and no need to become a COD FPS. The bad news for BioWare is they do need to step it up as per the OP.
Skyrim has defects and lots of shortcomings btw. But with what you DO GET compared to what you DON'T GOT, most of the fanbase has been pretty forgiving and supportive so far. BW would likely find a similar forgiving and supportive fanbase for their type of RPG given a similar level of effort/product-result on their end.
Regards to all. WarPaint (talk) 15:00, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
- Well said WarPaint. Compare the games, or styles, or gameplay or not, I agree, who cares really? But compare the production value, care and obvious time spent on each game and you have a grand canyon of differences between the two. I think THAT is what really jumps out at you, whether you like either of the games or not. As I said, TES is not my thing, I'm a week into Skyrim and already a tad bored with it (I doubt I will finish, but may play occasionally as nothing else out sparks any interest for me), but I am still very impressed with the game overall anyway. I played DA2 more for sure, and probably liked it more as it was closer to a game I would like to play, but I was not impressed at all with the game itself and ultimately disappointed overall. DAO is another story, and even being a differing style of RPG from Skyrim, DA2 also really, it evokes the same level of impressibility found in a game. I can appreciate that more I think, even if I won't spend as much time playing, or don't get into it at the same level. (Odd to comment anymore, isn't it WarPaint? two posts for me in a month or more, I'm stepping up my game....or not. Take care.) The Grey Unknown (talk) 16:10, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
- The two games have been, are being, and will be compared. Indeed, a Google search for Skyrim plus "Dragon Age" gives 44 million hits. Its a no-brainer that the two are being compared currently at BW headquarters and at EA headquarters. But just to be clear; there's lots of good news here for BW and for all RPG fans. Investment in an RPG project has the potential to pay off big time! One result for BW should be that getting a bigger budget for DA3 has probably become significantly easier.
- 7 million copies, 44 million hits.. What the point of all these statistics? No point at all, as there is absolutely no point in comparing two different games, even if they are being compared now. Yes, sometimes millions of people do absolutely pointless things.-Algol- (talk) 23:08, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
- A lie - a big lie - an even bigger lie - statistics ;-) If I'm not mistaken in interpreting the numbers, then Skyrim has sold in _two days_ the same number as DAO in a couple of months. No idea if this means doing well on Bethesda' scales but one thing can be concluded for sure: huge fan expectations, and trust in Bethesda. To an extent over which Bioware can only pale with envy. Broken trust is never fixed easily, and I hope that this finally helps to dawn on some heads the importance of reputation. --Ygrain (talk) 13:00, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
To me I like to think that when you play Dragon Ages it's like you're reading a book and when you play Skyrim it's like you're writing the book. So with that in mind both games have different priorities, so I think you shouldn't really compare the styles of both the games.
--Daniwars (talk) 17:19, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
I think Skyrim is getting so much attention on the Dragon Age Wiki because, the one for Skyrim doesn't have a forum. I don't know why it doesn't, but I think some people are coming here because they know there are people with similar tastes. Just my 2 cents. LVTDUDE (talk) 19:36, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
The Skyrim Wiki, the Elder Scrolls Wiki, and the Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages all have forums. People who talk about skyrim here are just too stupid or too lazy to look for them elsewhere.Rathian Warrior (talk) 20:25, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
- Keep it civil, please.
King Cousland | Talk 21:00, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
From the Elder Scrolls Wikia...
":This is not a place to ask general questions about The Elder Scrolls universe.
- The Council Club is a site-wide discussion area meant for topics concerning TESWiki. Please feel free to post questions, suggestions, and comments not related to specific articles. Questions related to specific articles should be asked on the talk page for that article.
- TESWiki is not a general discussion board. Elder Scrolls questions may be asked at the Library or referred to an external forum such as the Message Boards on Elderscrolls.com Off-topic posts are subject to deletion.
- For live TESWiki support and general discussion about TESWiki, you can also try our official chat room. See The Elder Scrolls Wiki:IRC for details."
They have a chatroom, and something called "The Library", but nothing that resembles a forum like this. Yes, there are other forums, but people that use wikia use it for a reason- the same reason we use it for Dragon Age. Besides, I was just making an observation. I'd be willing to bet that over half the Dragon Agers here have tried, or are going to try Skyrim. I just find it surprising that they don't have a wikia forum for Skyrim players.
For the record, I think it's a good thing for us to compare the two games. It lets the producers of the games know what we like and don't like. That (hopefully) provides the impetus for them to produce a better product. Competition is good. It is my hope that DA3 would have all the elements of Bioware's story-telling, and the free-roaming environments of Bethesda games. They both make great games, and I'm glad I don't have to choose between them. I love 'em both. Kind of like being a fan of baseball and football. I'd choose baseball if someone held a gun to my head, but I'm glad that won't happen. LVTDUDE (talk) 05:52, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
I think its impossible not to compare the two games. If you've played both and care about at least one of them, you subcontiously start comparing. SKYRIM gave a lot of what DA2 failed. As, for example someone talked about chants before - I've actually had goosebumps when I heard them, or the shadow of a dragon above your head. I've never had any such feeling in DA2. Throughout the whole game I just went "so what". So yes, I agree that Bioware should try to at least learn *something* from SKYRIM. Also, I believe the toolset contributes a lot to the game longevity. SKYRIM is great as a vanilla game, but the mods will be make it even better. Bethesda is confident they made a great game and they are not afraid the modders will steal its later glory. DA2 is still a good game, but the toolset would have prolonged its life substantially. Mods are important, they build a dedicated fan community and keep the game alive for long time. I'm still keeping the first NWN on my computer just for the sake of two mods for example. --Ascendra (talk) 07:03, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
First, there are lots of IRC boards devoted to Skyrim discussion, such as this one: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/UESPWiki:IRC, and I'm sure you could find a forum if you looked hard enough, but that's not the point. There's a difference between a general comparison and "Wow Skyrim kicks DA's ass," which is entirely unnecessary and, as I've said, out of place. Personally, I've played DA:O, DA2, and Skyrim, and I disagree with everyone who says they're comparable. I don't see any reason to say they're like one another, because they're far more different than, say, CoD and Battlefield. My point remains the same: why are we even discussing this? People complain all the time about how one game borrows ideas from another, or how some game's ideas are unoriginal, and I thought what made DA special was its originality and innovation. Comparing this to some other game has no point, because neither is going to change to emulate the other, nor should they. I fail to see the logic of bringing up another game, from another developer, that has little to no bearing on this one (it doesn't even have dwarves for Maker's sake)Rathian Warrior (talk) 07:47, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
Well, a computer game is still a product, and like any product it competes on its own market as well as on a broader market. Apparently DA2 as a product seems to compete on the broader market with another product - Skyrim. As subtypes of RPGs they are different (one is story-based, another is open-world), but in a broader sense they are still classed as two RPGs. No matter how much we deny it, the two games have overlapping audiences and hence share the same market of general RPG-lovers (I bet a lot of people on the Wiki played all DA, Skyrim and also Dark Souls). So people who played both games understand the differences in main features of the products, but essentially classify them into one category - RPGs. While I'm trying not to compare the two games as they are different sub-types of RPGs, I still, like many other people, find myself comparing them on a subconscious level since for me they are at the core two RPGs on the same broader market. Add that on top of differences in their qualities. You have a company that you love and been following for ages, which released a half-done product showing you a middle finger in the process, and then you see another company you care less about but the quality of its product shines through. And then you have forumes on the Wiki dedicated specifically for dicsussion of that said first game. Wouldn't you compare? --Ascendra (talk) 08:50, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
- Nicely summed. When The Witcher 2 was released, it also got compared to DA2, even though they are different types of games, and I think that it's very natural that fantasy games get compared a lot, provided that you keep the comparison reasonable. And, if you focus on things like development time, attention paid to details etc., you can fairly compare even games of different genres. --Ygrain (talk) 13:00, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
Having pumped more hours into Skyrim during the past week than I have the entire time I've owned DA2, I completely agree with the OPs assessment.
 Tekka Ijuin | Talk |
10:16, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
To answer Ascendra's question: No, I wouldn't.Rathian Warrior (talk) 13:30, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
@Ascendra "You have a company that you love and been following for ages, which released a half-done product showing you a middle finger in the process" - great phrase, that's exactly what I feel about Bethesda. I played their game since Daggerfall, and Morrowind is one of my most favorite games ever. Now, what they've done with Oblivion and Fallout 3 was unacceptable perversion of a videogame. And they have to try a lot harder to redeem themselves in my eyes, than releasing Skyrim. So, my thoughts on Skyrim - it's a largely overhyped RPG, weak in its very core - the actual role-playing. In this matter Skyrim is inferior even to DAII and vastly inferior to Origins - for those, who want to compare so much. Also, I'm currently playing Modern Warfare 3, and it is a much better FPS than Skyrim - again, for those, who want to compare so much.-Algol- (talk) 13:53, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
I couldn't create a game worse than Skyrim even if I tried hard with a 1980 low end calculator hardware. I really really hope that Bioware ignores that 100% genuine shit game and concentrate on creating a game as good as Origins or even better and by this I mean STAY THE HELL AWAY OF Mass Effect, Skyrim and another franchises. NO Skyrim, NO Skyward Sword, NO World of Warcraft, NO Diablo 3, NO everything but Dragon Age Origins + Awakening + DLCs since everything before DA2 was just perfect. Raoniluna (talk) 13:58, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
- LOL. So many comments to the two poster's above... but I won't. This whole Skyrim-DA2 thing is getting dull. Let's just stick to what most of us on here do best. Go into big rants about religion and oppression and make some piss-poor attempt to relate it to events of Origins and DA2. (DDragonfly1990 (talk) 14:37, December 5, 2011 (UTC))
@Dragonfly I tried to keep it interesting, but no one wanted to be in my discussion about Loghain's sheer badassery. Oh well.Rathian Warrior (talk) 15:08, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
- I noticed... I would've contributed but alas, I had nothing witty to say :P I have to say though, if Lhogain had been in charge, Ulfric would'nt have got anywhere near Torygg and Alduin would be shitting himself! (DDragonfly1990 (talk))
If Loghain were in charge, The Reach would be a part of High Rock and the Aldmeri Dominion would be gone. Rathian Warrior (talk) 16:59, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
- If Loghain was in charge, I would be very curious about what he had been up to since the First Warden sent him to Orlais......hmmm. --CommanderCousland (talk) 20:09, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
- If Loghain were in charge, there would be valid grounds on which to compare the games. --Isolationistmagi (talk) 21:18, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
- If Loghain were in charge, an arrow in the knee wouldn't stop him from adventuring ;) (DDragonfly1990 (talk) 00:53, December 6, 2011 (UTC))
I don't think Loghain being in charge is sufficient grounds to support the Stormcloaks.Rathian Warrior (talk) 23:42, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
Might we stop this Skyrim talk? This is a DRAGON AGE wiki not ELDER SCROLLS thank you.Lord Warden (talk) 01:11, December 6, 2011 (UTC)
- Seriously, their both good games it is just a matter of preference. I know we will compare them subconsciously considering how small the RPG market is these days. But let's keep it subconscious and off the DA wiki, I hate to hear people bashing and overpraising two of my favorite series on one site, especially two games that are completely different with A FEW (Very few) similarities. MrRexfire (talk) 02:16, December 6, 2011 (UTC)
- One of them being that Meredith and Meridia are voiced by the same person. --173.21.194.202 (talk) 02:21, December 6, 2011 (UTC)
- And every second Imperial soldier you run into is Fenris. (In disguise.)
02:43, December 6, 2011 (UTC) Tekka Ijuin | Talk
- And every second Imperial soldier you run into is Fenris. (In disguise.)
- Poor Fenris. After spending 10 years with Hawke, he ran away to the icy North, cloned himself and became the Legion. --Ascendra (talk) 08:20, December 6, 2011 (UTC)
- Could've run to Mojave Wasteland instead if he wanted to become the Legion. Then I would have even more fun shooting them all on sight! (I'm pretty indifferent about the character, but his voice makes my fingers uncontrollably reach towards "Mute" button). Also, I think I'm close to being physically sick due to the Skyrim overexposure. Dorquemada (talk) 09:42, December 6, 2011 (UTC)
- Poor Fenris. After spending 10 years with Hawke, he ran away to the icy North, cloned himself and became the Legion. --Ascendra (talk) 08:20, December 6, 2011 (UTC)
- The legionnaire Fenris kind of hits you in the face when you hear it for the first time - his voice is very distinct - and while I like the character, it is his constant "lyrium burned into my flesh" thing in every dialog which recently began grating on my nerves. I just had a terrible mental picture of skinny Fenris running around in that Legion stuff they wear in F:NV waving his oversized sword. Thanks Dorquemada :).
- I thought Meridia sounded strangely familiar, and I think I've heard Merrill there as well if I'm not mistaken. --Ascendra (talk) 13:26, December 6, 2011 (UTC)