So after beating Trespasser and re-playing other parts of Inquisition to seems to me that Solas' plans makes little to no sense whatsoever. According to Solas (who's not necessarily telling the whole truth, as he has his own agenda) the Evanuris were basically god-Kings who ruled over the Elven race (don't even get me started on Bioware's apparent rip-off of the Tribunal from Elder Scrolls). As they grew more and more corrupt the Evanuris turned against and murdered Mythal for more power. This led Solas to rise up against them in rebellion/ create the Veil to imprison the rest of the "gods". However, this unwittingly cut the elves off from the fade, destroying their immortality and (I assume) most of the elves' connection to magic. Now he wants to fix his "mistake" and destroy the Veil, restoring the Elven race's power.
This is where things kinda collapse for me. First off, the Veil was created to imprison the Evanuris (presumably in the Black city). Now, this implies that destroying it would free them. If the god-kings were corrupt and crazy before, I doubt 2,000 plus years of imprisonment will have helped the situation and they're probably more likely to restart the war against Solas and his supporters rather than trying to restore Elven civilization.
Second, ignoring the implications that at one point the fade and Thedas were directly connected, everyone who's played Inquisition can tell what happened when the Veil was ripped. Removing it would basically cause Thedas to be overwhelmed by demons, which included the restored elves.
Finally, there's no guarantee that removing the veil would restore the Elves immortality or the entire race's magical connection. After all its been around 2,000 years, so who knows what effects the removal of the veil would have on the elves.
In all Solas' plan (and the probable plot of DA4) seems kinda weak, with glaring wholes. --Croix129 (talk) 21:29, September 12, 2015 (UTC)
I believe the plan revealed to us was meant to be perceived in such a way. Its a plan where you relly shoukd want to stop him after hearing it. Or at least change his mind about only helping the elves. While he has noble goals, he hasn't considered the ramifications of bringing down the veil in a world which has adjusted to its existence. And this will be a major part of the next game. The belief that his efforts will not go as smoothly as planned and will likely end all life on thedas. While he has plans for the evanuris, he has mentioned no plsns regarding the black city and the darkness it contains which breeds the taint. He has no knowledge of what will happen as a result. Only the assumption that it will be the same as when the veil was raised. Too much has changed, elves will not survive the cataclysm without a safe haven, neither will any other race. The denizens of the fade will eventually revert to pure energy and become something new. But is that simply the case. What solas wants is an enormous task to undertake. 
22:29, September 12, 2015 (UTC)
Ugh, Bioware did not rip off the Elder Scrolls. God-kings are a common trope in fantasy fiction. Oh, and they've been known to happen in real life. Not literally of course, but both the Egyptian Pharaohs and the Roman Emperors claimed to be divine, although with the Romans it was somewhat metaphorical. Even Alexander the great claimed to be a demigod. And I think the Chinese and Japanese Emperors of certain dynasties both claimed divine lineage. I'm not 100% sure about that though, my knowledge of Asian history is spotty at best. Even the European noble and royal families claimed they had a divine right to rule others. Not exactly the same, but still.
In fact, this sort of thing still happens. The citizens of North Korean appear to worship members of the Kim dynasty (sort of). They don't exactly ascribe any supernatural powers to them, but their reverence for them is more than just a normal citizenry's reverence toward celebrities or royalty.
Dragon Age's Evanuris and the Elder Scroll's Tribunal are just extreme examples of the god-king trope, something that is inspired by real life events and people. Bethesda does not own the god-king trope. Besides, the Dune series portrayed a much better representation of it before some of Bethesda's developers were even born. Silver Warden (talk) 23:07, September 12, 2015 (UTC)
As far as I understood, ancient elves were spirit-like (or even simply spirits), and it is them he wishes to save. The Archivist when asked about ancient elves says "forms out of air", a pair of lovers is described as "colliding in the air, bodies formed for kissing", the Forbidden Ones were punished for "casting aside form" and are described as having "familiarity with shape", the sinner "took on a form reserved for the gods and their chosen, and dared to fly in the shape of the divine", Kieran asks the elven Inquisitor why their people "want to look like that", figures in the ancient elven city floated in the air etc. Or even something like this: "Those who never manifested outside the Fade will find it easier to find its stillest roots, but it is rare the compulsion overtakes our brethren of the air."
Modern elves will die. At least he said to my Lavellan "in order for my people to live your people must die" or something like that. Elves of Thedas are NOT his people. They are but a remnant trapped in the waking world and are something he is willing to sacrifice. I also don't think "destroying the world" part is about demons. More likely, it's like changing fundamental physical constants which will cause all material life to perish in an instance.Asherinka (talk) 23:10, September 12, 2015 (UTC)
I think the ancient elves simply hung out with spirits like they were normal people. They weren't spirits themselves. What gets me is that demons are spirits that want to cross the Veil. But what about when there was no Veil? Were there no demons? If so, Solas indirectly created all of the demons. Yet another reason to hate him. Silver Warden (talk) 00:41, September 13, 2015 (UTC)
I don't think that the ancient elves were spirits. I mean if they were then that should mean that no elves would be left in modern Thedas, as they would all be in the fade, not flesh and blood (unless they were all like Cole, which I doubt). As for my mention of the Elder Scrolls, I didn't mean it as some kind of accusation, more implying that the two (Tribunal and Evanuris) are very similar on the surface, especially as we lack a complete creation story for the later.
Personally I think its ironic that Solas basically accuses the Evanuris of being insane yet his plan would destroy the world. Which is why I find it hard to trust what comes out of Solas' mouth. He has a clear agenda and I wouldn't be surprised if, in DA4, it comes out that he was the real villain, not the rest of the Evanuris. If you look at what Solas says from that POV, the story looks very different. It could be interpenetrated to mean that Solas was the one who wanted more power and rebelled against the rest of the Evanuris, possibly with the aid of Mythal. The Evanuris killed Mythal and began to overwhelm Solas' forces and in desperation he created the veil to seal them away, destroying elven civilization in the process.
In a way this version fits better with the remnants of Elven stories and lore then Solas' does. If all the god-kings were evil and the populace knew it why preserve lore that showed them in a good light instead of a bad one and vise-versa for Fen'Harel? Clearly some kind of remnant civilization limped on until the Tevinter conquest (at least in my opinion, as Tevinter also mentions the conquest of the elves) yet it didn't seem to pass on any stories of the Dread Wolf as a "good" god, only as a dark trickster.
Finally, look at the current (as of Trespasser) situation with the modern elves. Solas is promising them everything they ever wanted in return for following him. He could easily use them to go to war with the rest of Thedas if he so wished, especially as it looks like the continent is going to be distracted by a massive war with the Qunari. Maybe I'm completely wrong, but its food for thought either way.--Croix129 (talk) 05:04, September 13, 2015 (UTC)
IMHO, the part of Solas' story regarding the Evanuris seems to ring true though. Solas' story seems to imply he banished them to what is now known as the Black City, and Corypheus (despite how bad his intentions are) all but confirmed that the Black City already was tainted when the priest-magisters stepped into the Fade - something that could only have happened with powerfull forces corrupting it. And the Evanuris certainly qualify for the term 'powerfull' - they were some of the strongest magicians in Elvenhan.
Now I mentioned that, it really makes me wonder whether the Old Gods, at least the spirits whom whisper, aren't the Evanuris. The Old Gods wanted the magisters to step within the Black City, and the Evanuris, if they are indeed the creators of the taint, must have known what would happen once a mortal stepped into the Black City. It would be the first step of the revenge of the Evanuris - causing an horde of night unstoppable masses which scour Thedas, and perhaps forcing Solas/Fen'Harel out of hiding. --Eternal Undead Dragon (talk) 05:54, September 13, 2015 (UTC)
True the Black city is obviously corrupted but we don't know what the source of the corruption was. For all we know Solas himself caused the corruption. The fact is we simply don't have enough info to figure out the entire truth. Realistically the true story is somewhere in between the extremes of the Dalish stories and Solas' tale.
As for the Old Gods and the Evanuris, that's an interesting theory. After all there are/were seven old gods and seven imprisoned members of the Elven pantheon and both groups aren't true gods bur were/are worshiped as such. Although, it could have been an attempt by the Evanuris to get free, not to spread their corruption if they are one and the same with the old gods. However, I doubt it was an attempt to force Solas out of hiding. Its more likely that Solas was forced into something similar to Uthenera after he created the Veil, which no doubt drained him of most of his power. Which would also explain why he didn't take charge of the elves after the Evanuris were banished. --Croix129 (talk) 07:51, September 13, 2015 (UTC)
Solis is quite open on the fact that his plan will involve the detruction of Thedas, and that the evanuris will be released upon doing so. The fact that he takes it all in a stride could mean two things, one that he has managed to find a solution to all these problems, or two (and this is more likely) that he is completely insane. Caspoi (talk) 12:08, September 13, 2015 (UTC)
- Well, it seems he may be both... in Trespasser he DID state he had a plan for the released "gods" and as for the rest of the world, he simply doesn't care because he's going to "fix" things the way they were suppose to be. DhampireHEK (talk) 21:51, September 13, 2015 (UTC)
I think that if there's one thing that you can take away about Solas after reading his history, it's that he is a colossal screwup. Like, if he were put in charge of catering a Chantry luncheon he'd end up threatening civilization in new and interesting ways. So yes, his plans at the end of Trespasser sound batshit insane and absolutely monstrous, just like every other thing he's ever done. 75.142.148.152 (talk) 03:50, September 18, 2015 (UTC)
I apologize in advance for how long this turned out, I thought it's just gonna be a tiny piece of thought.
I don't think he was lying about the elven gods and his role in that civil war of sort. I mean, I'm absolutely open to the idea of bluff and double bluff but I think it makes perfect sense the elves would not remember him as the freedom fighter good guy. Whether the god-kings were evil or not, Solas created the Veil that crippled the very being and existence of all elves. Judging by their last words, they seemed really distraught, confused, panicked and maybe even hurting almost. I wouldn't be surprised if their memories as well as their lives got fragmented, more or less just like Study in the library (heh). Hell even the spirits and demons seem to have a problem remembering how the Fade got separated from the world, even they wonder how the hell they or their home came to be. Why wouldn't the now-mortal elves have trouble remembering what happened? Most evidence of what happened could've been destroyed one way or another, leaving only remnants that left them guessing. All they knew for certain - at least immediately - was the betrayal committed against their race and world. And over time everything was fading, memories getting even more fragmented so they put together whatever pieces they had left behind. And I find it very likely that more evidence of "benevolent elven gods" warning everyone against the "traitor Dread Wolf" remained intact (even if in pieces) than the other way around.
By the way if you mean the future Redcliffe part where the veil was removed and demons overwhelmed the world, let's not forget that Solas says something like "this is not what was supposed to happen". Whatever he would've done with the demons, it was definitely not what Corypheus did: amass a huge army of demons and take over the world. I'm not against the idea that he may not consider the consequences of demons running free. But, well... personally the way I see it, there's a lot of benevolent and neutral spirits as well, and they are all punished by being locked away from real life because of demons, who I guess could be considered criminals in their society, or mentally ill even. And I can imagine Solas would be okay freeing and saving the good ones at the expense of having the demons loose, something spirits and people could work together against.
And that just made me think: what will happen when the Fade and real world gets merged? Sure, mortals likely either die or become immortal again, magic returns to them and all, but what about spirits? Maybe people of the real world aren't the only ones that got cut off and fragmented. Maybe spirits and demons used to be more like actual people with only a greater focus on a certain aspect. Maybe they became so focused on one aspect of the world and maybe this is why they keep forgetting everything... maybe this is why they're so dreamlike, not having any connection to anything physical and practical, just focusing on a single thing and seeing the world from that one single perspective. Just like how a lot of people seem to have lost their magic, their connection to the Fade, the spirits may have lost their full personality, their connection to reality and nothing remained but what defined them the most.
And when I consider that, I wonder how much the world actually gain and lose when removing the Veil. I wonder if the cost could ever equate to the result. Kill all the humans, dwarves, qunari - not that qunari matters to him, in fact he seems them as monsters anyway - and at least some of the elves, in order to save the elven race, the spirits, and let the world be as it used to be? I'm not sure how I feel about his idea just yet. It seems ambitiously crazy for sure, but I can see why he thinks it's a good idea and why he may risk everything to restore how the world really used to be.
As for the Evanuris, I do agree that's a very dangerous thing to do, letting power hungry, powerful creatures out of their cage. But I don't think we have enough evidence to make an accurate guess what would happen to powerful immortal elven mages locked away in the Fade, isolated from almost literally everything (at which point it may be realistic to consider they really do live in the Black City, since that seems to be the most isolated place). They can go insane and want revenge, which I admit is the most likely thing that'd happen, but they may actually sink so deep into madness that they could end up in corners rocking back and forth gibbering to themselves. But however it may be, Solas is confident in his plan to deal with those mages (maybe doing something like what he did with Mythal?), and he seems to think no matter what would happen with the Evanuris, they can't do anything nearly as bad as what the Veil did to the world. And if that's really the case, he's probably painfully aware of the severity of his mistake, which probably only drives and pushes him more and more, and it'd probably take a miracle to stop him. --Liaison Shaw (talk) 06:20, September 18, 2015 (UTC)
- From the libraries we know that there existed spirits in elven society, and they were not very different from the modern spirits. And Solas hates the Qun as a philosophy, not the qunari as a race. Caspoi (talk) 10:42, September 18, 2015 (UTC)
- You made a good point about Solas in the redcliffe future. I'd forgotten about that. But you're right, Solas' plan and what Corypheus did, are very different. Solas wants to bring down the veil, while Corypheus just let a giant tear in the veil expand, leading to a very different effect. Spirits are pulled through the veil and in doing so get corrupted into demons, or demons just come through. Solas' plan, I'd assume, would result in a very sudden, instantaneous merging. So spirits and demons aren't pulled through the veil they are just there, but instead of corruption by veil they are twisted by the perception of Thedosians (the ones who survive anyway). They'll likely all die during the destruction, but as Solas says during his personal quest, Spirits don't truly die, they just revert to energy and reform over time. So when they reform, it'll be in a world where they are not perceived as monsters. And they may well return to what they were before, given time. That's if Solas goes through with his plan and succeeds. 11:17, September 18, 2015 (UTC)