Forum:"Bioware's Own Canon?"

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Say I wanted to tailor my own Dragon Age universe in a way that plays nicely with all of the extended lore (book, comics, etc.) that has been put out, what choices would I have to make? So far all I have found is: Alistair is made king of Ferelden Alistair performs the dark ritual with Morrigan (at least in the Dark Horse comics)

I can see notes on some wiki articles pointing out when a story follows this particular sort of canon, but cannot seem to search for just that tag. Any other decisions made by Bioware that could contradict player choice when looking at the extended lore?--Dbiznaz (talk) 23:13, September 13, 2014 (UTC)

On DAO: I would consider Leliana and Wynne both living through Sacred Ashes (even if you killed them in game) to be their cannon as well because they ret-conned both of their deaths out of the story going forward since they decided to use them both for integral plot points. You could consider Morgan living through Witch Hunt one as well although 'technically" they don't show her outright dying. On DAII: Isabella living is probably cannon as well since you see her running around in the comics.

I'll post more if I think of themVhardamis (talk) 23:28, September 13, 2014 (UTC)

In terms of DA:O canon, if you played darkspawn chronicles, that pretty much sums up biowares canon, with the exception of the warden passing the joining ritual. I think it does anyway, not 100% sure, but its worth checking out what choices were made in that, just in case. With DA2 canon, I'll think we'll find out more once the keep is released, I'm sure Bioware will also state their own specific canon world state, then allow players to adjust it to their own desires. Also, I think from the destiny trailer, DA2 canon will have a Hawke mage champion who killed the Arishok, hence Isabela being alive in the comics. 00:25, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

Shale should still be around, and she's interested in regaining her mortality. 71.218.250.5 (talk) 00:27, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

Didn't Mark Darrah once tweet what the "canon" (or default history, maybe) was? I think the Warden is a Dalish who sacrificed himself/herself, Alistair is king, and Hawke is a mage who sided with the mages. --Death by Cheese (talk) 00:46, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

I wouldn't put too much stock in the "Bioware canon," because like Cheese said, Bioware once stated that the "Dalish sacrifice" Warden is the game canon. This contradicts the Alistair sole-king Dark Ritual canon of the comics, and Asunder pigeonholes into Urn preserved, Anvil destroyed. Basically they choose background at random to suit the current story.

On this note, it seems those events in the comics and books play out regardless of our actions in the games, minus the actors that died or couldn't otherwise hold that role. I expect slight variations in Inquisition based on Alistair not being there for Titus' death (Maric kills him in the Fade), or Wynne not being sent to Pharamond, yet the events themselves play out regardless. RShepard227 (talk) 00:53, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

Errors in the statements thus far

I usually try not to get involved in these things but I have noticed several errors which I thought it might be helpful for everyone if I brought to light.

First the statements regarding canonicity

To quote from the writers team for Dragon Age:

"Alistair being King of Ferelden is not "canon", as in it does not affect the choices you made in your game nor override them. The comic is a tale based on one possible version of the game world... as it would need to be, being a comic book and not a video game, and thus unable to react to game decisions."

And here is a link to a statement which clarifies their "official canon": http://xelethaine.tumblr.com/image/58909213028

= Regarding the actual specific errors here:

• [[1]]:

Asunder does not in any way "pidgeonhole" the urn into surviving. I'm presuming this is based on Wynne's continued survival given she is one of two companions who become hostile if you destroy the urn. It is entirely possible however to recruit Wynne after completing the Urn of Sacred Ashes quest and Wynne does not become hostile at any point during the game, meaning Wynne's survival can work with the Urn's destruction. All you get in that route is a few spiteful remarks from her in Awakening.

As for the Anvil's destruction, please correct me if I am mistaken but I don't believe any statement is made one way or another regarding the status of the Anvil or the events with Branka & Caridin. If this is based similarly on Shale's presence I would like to point out it is also entirely possible to preserve the Anvil & keep shale alive in your party, you simply don't bring her along to the anvil or recruit her afterwards and she never turns on you.

There is nothing to support the leap from Wynne & Shale's presence to a definitive conclusion that the Urn was preserved & the Anvil was lost. Of course its been a while since I last read Asunder (i'm saving re-reading it for DA:I's release) so if there are more definitive statements I am forgetting please feel free to point them out.

Even were that the case however, I would refer you again to the writers statement regarding Alistair as King. As for Leliana & Wynne's potential deaths being "ret-conned" , I'd like to refer you to the statement in the link which addresses that specific example directly.

• Other character deaths:

For Morrigan, I'm not entirely sure what to say to this. Morrigan never dies and the closest she gets is her being stabbed at the end of Witch Hunt.

Also again, please feel free to correct me if I am in error here, but I do not believe it is possible for Isabela to die either. You can hand her over to the Qunari but I am not aware of any potential avenue in DA2 wherein she dies. Even handing her over to the Qunari is never shown to result in her death nor does not recruiting her.

• Alistair performing the dark ritual in "The Silent Grove". Again, I am working from a presumption here but I am guessing this is based on the author's comment in the hardcover of Silent Grove. What the statement actually says is "In my mind this Alistair is the one who did the Dark Ritual."

Its pretty clear that is just a personal "headcanon" if you will. The text itself is deliberately written ambiguously on this score specifically to allow it to mesh with more potential decisions. So it is not necessarily contradictory with anyone's heroic sacrifice.

The canonicity of the Darkspawn Chronicles & advertisements:

• Darkspawn Chronicles is hardly bioware's official statement of "canon". In fact I think they even stated specifically it was non-canon at some point but I cannot find the link. The darkspawn chronicles contains several decisions which it is impossible to make in DA:O. Rendon Howe survives past the landsmeet while Loghain does not for instance.

• The DA2 'Destiny' trailer is not anymore canon than the Warden from 'The Calling' trailer is official canon. Its just a flashy cinematic to show off the game. Its not possible to even fight the Arishok on the steps of the Viscount's Keep.

- 03:02, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

Since it seems most of your statement is directed at me, I'll reply. First, I'm not disagreeing with you, I was saying essentially the same thing, that Bioware is designing its material around particular, distinct versions of what happened. Second, I was unaware that you could actually keep Wynne or Shale available in those scenarios. Although it does seem like a very specific "road-less-traveled" permutation of the universe. However, in all instances, I never intended to say that Bioware is overwriting your decisions as the player, as ultimately what we do and outline in the Dragon Age Keep will determine our version of Inquisition. I was only stating that certain major events from the comics and books are still possible, albeit with different actors, even if the ones the authors put there are not available/cannot be there in the players' world-states. Aurelian Titus can still be opposed, defeated, and die even if Alistair isn't King of Ferelden and/or Sten isn't the Arishok. Rhys can still go to Pharamond, Lambert can still sabotage the talks at White Spire, and Fiona can orchestrate the full-scale mage rebellion without Wynne and/or Shale. That's been my view of this ever since I joined the wiki. RShepard227 (talk) 03:21, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

I agree entirely. Well not about "road-less-traveled" bit, that seems a little spurious. But regarding the extended materials and player decisions, I wholeheartedly concur. Clearly those events still played out in some fashion but differently from how they are depicted if the player's decisions precluded certain figures from being involved in those events. I just wanted to bring up their actual statements regarding "canon" because often threads like this tend to leap to vast conclusions based on assumptions easily. - 03:30, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

I think we all know that none of the choices that Bioware has made override the ones made by the player; my question is more along the lines of what choices have these various writers made, do they all make different ones (so it's possible that Asunder, The Stolen Throne, etc. all exist in a different continuity) or are there some agreed upon, unified choices? It's not much different than if I asked what your personal canon is, so that if I like it maybe I'll try to emulate it for myself.

So I guess for this instance, think of "Bioware" as being a singular person that none of us know, and we're just trying to determine what player choices they made in their playthrough, based on the extra fan-fiction they later wrote. From just Asunder we can assume that this person "Bioware" recruited both Wynne and Shale at some point, and that Wynne was definitely at the Battle of Denerim. From albeit a minor reference in The Masked Empire, it can be assumed that "Bioware" also made Alistair king of Ferelden. As far as Alistair and the Dark Ritual are concerned, that was mostly from a note on the wiki article on the comic; I haven't read them myself.

For the other points I agree entirely; decisions that cannot be changed by the player are canon for everyone. Isabela is never killed on screen, or even referenced as being killed in the events of DA:2, Uldred always betrays the Circle Tower no matter who you are, etc. --Dbiznaz (talk) 03:34, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

I think for the death's regarding Lelianna and Wynne as example, they might pull up a simliar thing like in Mass Effect 3 when your team from the previous games died: They get replaced by new characters who are basically placeholders. Despite it's unlikely they will find another mage with a spirit within. It's quite possible that they might pull the same idea from ME into DA:I to make a few events still canon and somehow believeable.--217.247.1.235 (talk) 05:19, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

Wait a minute: I read the comics, but I missed the part in which it's hinted that Alistair performed the Dark Ritual with Morrigan. Can someone explain me where this has been said? 93.42.21.30 (talk) 09:57, September 14, 2014 (UTC)