Talk: Project Bodahn

Merchant Pages

My initial thoughts on this have come up with some questions, or maybe just comments:

• If I am getting this correctly, the Project is more complete pages on merchants, and what they sell.
• If the pages are on the merchants themselves, there should be a bit on the merchant, such as background, links to quests or quest items, links to back-stories, if they exist or to quests such as with the merchant that travels with the Crow Assassin.
• Detailed list of what stock, sale and purchase prices, images of stock alongside.
• It might also be good to have a note on whether this is the cheapest place to purchase these items

Ill post more when I have had a chance to play around with different ways of organising such a page. -- Quietscribe 22:13, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Roger that. Re: to your comments::# More or less, yes; however, there is some ambiguity due to the interconnected nature of the wiki, and the two projects. So, a few other things get dragged along with it - such as the Item pages themselves (think Lyrium Potion or what not).:# An initial idea I had (to avoid messing up established pages about the merchant themselves, which has the info you mentioned) is to put the merchants inventory on a separate page then link to it. An example would be Cesar - a new page called Cesar (Inventory) would be created, then linked to from the actual character page.

1. Absolutely. See Herbalism Recipes (and Double-Baked Mabari Crunch Recipe) for some ideas.
2. I would agree with that in general; there is some ambiguity in that as the game doesn't have "set" prices, it sort of makes them all up on the spot, as it were. If some kind of "this is the lowest you can get" could be worked out, then yeah absolutely.

Sounds good. - Pwr905 22:32, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

I think having inventory pages linked into the merchant pages would be a good idea. It would also be the least hassle I think to create. In terms of the prices, most of the individual pages for items have a lowest and highest on them, which would be good to include. Also I was thinking that maybe the core files might be able to tell us more on that count, but I don't really know enough about that sort of thing to say if its possible or not. Oh, also with items, some shops have different or more items after certain events; for instance the dalish shop offers a backpack only after you aid them with the werewolves. Problems I see is that the same item name such as Studden Leather Armour could have different stats in different places? How would that be dealt with, or would they just be listed as-is? It depends on how detailed you wish the pages to be. Also I am trying to figure out the best way to have the different sections on one page without making it seem endless. Ill let you know if I come up with anything noteworthy. - Quietscribe 22:48, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Let me poke around the toolset and I will get back to you on that. My recollection tells me that there are different merchants depending on if/when their stock changes a great deal, but past experience tells me my recollection can be shakey at times. - Pwr905 02:47, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, it seems to be that way. Some examples would be that there are several copies of Bodahn's shop, as well as Varathorn and several others. Now, as to how to deal with that ... several ideas.::*Different merchant pages for each merchant "instance" (eg: Bodahn before/after he restocks, etc). Ugly.::*Plaster it all on one page. Just as ugly, and makes your job of designing the page layout even worse.

• Have a "base" page, with different sections that can be included on other pages depending on options given. So, for example, if a large page was created with a "special" tag (an example might be Bodahn (Complete Inventory)), then the frequently visited versions of Bodahn (before/after his stock resets) could include the versions of the inventory they want, in a line or two.

Requires more thought, I suspect. - Pwr905 03:02, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

I have been having a look at the merchants in Orzammar, and have posted up a list of items that they are selling when you first come into the shop (links on my userpage). I will revisit the shops after I have completed the quests there to see whether they all change or just a couple, if any. It may well be that only a couple of key shopkeepers will add back in stock, though they will resell items that you have sold to them, which can be confusing, so I am going to only sell stuff to the traders in camp. In terms of the listing after restock, it would largely depend on how much is new. If it is going to only be a few items then they could be put in the main list with an icon or something to let people know when they will be available. I will work on looking at Orzammar and see what I come up with from there. - Quietscribe 03:53, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

I am under the impression that when a merchant "restocks" (or, put more pointedly, the actual "map" changes and the merchant is changed), all previously sold items were removed. It is possible I am mistaken though.

I do take your point, though, that if the difference between the initial stock and the "new" stock is trivial, there is no need to create a separate page for that; a section will probably suffice. This raises interesting technical implications I shall have to consider. - Pwr905 04:17, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Addendum: Yeah, only certain shopkeepers refresh. The toolset allows inspection of who exactly that is, and that can be dealt with appropriately (ie: whatever we decide to do with trivial changes of inventory, etc). - Pwr905 04:19, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Hey guys, I am sorry I have not done any more updating since my last comments really. I don't truthfully have any excuse other than the fact I got the pc version and have been playing that now to *guilty*. I am not entirely sure how to get more information as to the specifics of the stuff on each vendor other than by checking them by hand, but I think (correct me if I am wrong) but is the bot doing that? Ill try to come up with a layout suggestion or two in the next few days (currently got a blasted cold, so brain feels a bit like stuffed with soggy cotton wool). I am not super great at coding, but will give it my best shot :) Every little helps, yes? In terms of the restock on some vendors, it would be really useful to understand when exactly this happens. I noticed that the vendor in the dalish camp had in the past restocked after I completed their quest, but then noticed also that it had refreshed (to give the extra backpack) when I had completed Orzammar quest, but not that one. Is it the main blight quests that trigger the restocks then? Smaller side quests that change the map (such as the chanters board) do not seem to. Also, it occured to me that there might be several restocks, especially after the main 'allies' blight quests are over. It won't have a huge impact on the layout, but it deserves being considered for accuracy and information. Perhaps someone that has a better understanding of coding could find out eventually. Anyhow, Ill see what I can come up with. If those in charge of the project wish to chat to me about this stuff, my IMs are on my userpage. I might make more sense when talked to in real time :) Quietscribe 17:52, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Test stuff

Ok, well I had a fiddle about with the things, but not being used to using wiki workings I struggled a bit with getting backgrounds and such working, and most of the html I know either isn't supported, or it messes it up when I save adding on lots of weird extentions etc to each line, but yeah, here is what I am thinking for the stock pages.

First of all there should be an extremely short summary of relevant information on the key pieces, such as named items that have a codex entry, infinate ingredients, difficult recipes and gifts, as well as the sellback or markup on the items, or perhaps the general cost compared to other vendors. After that I was thinking that an extremely simple table would do like this:

Weapons

Icon	Name	Type	Cost	Notes
Weapons
	Dwarven Waraxe	Dragonbone	2 27 88	See Also: Dwarven_Waraxe
	Dwarven Longsword	Silverite	6 0 0	See Also: Dwarven_Longsword
Armour
	Heavy Dwarven Helmet	Dragonbone	10 80 0	See Also: Heavy_Dwarven_Helmet
Other
	Remarkable Topaz	Gift	2 40 0	See Also: Remarkable_Topaz

The note section would be to put a link to the relevant page about the item, or if it can be purchased elsewhere nearby for much cheaper (such as the rock-knocker at Janar's which can be bought from Faryn's cheaper).

This would be just for the initial stock in the shop, and any additional stock that comes later in the game should be put on a separate table below with a quick note above on when this will appear. This will keep the pages simple and easy to find what you are looking for. I considered integrating the restocks with the initial shop with a tag on the relevant items that it came later, but I think that would just make things more difficult to find things quickly depending on where people are in the game. Obviously my little table thingy isnt all wonderfully formatted, but I hope you get the general gist. Quietscribe 19:34, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Cost Ratio

Most Armor and Weapons tiers level with you and cost ratio with them, so costs will vary. How will this work with project Bodahn?  Hollowness | Talk | Contr 19:54, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Could put in a range of cost, like on many of the pages seen on the site. That would be one possibility. Quietscribe 23:21, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

The problem with a range of cost is that it would be notoriously hard to transform. But, it is possible. I like this idea. I'm going to think about how it can be done. -- tierrie talk contr 23:53, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

My Progress

Here is my progression list if anyone wants to watch my progress. I seem to be making good time, atm.  Hollowness | Talk | Contr 10:29, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Incase you can find it useful, I noted down the list of items and price at all the Orzammar shops on the discussion pages of each. This was done at the beginning of the game at the first oppertunity to go to Orzammar, so should be the base list. Quietscribe 13:56, February 5, 2010 (UTC)