Move Edit

  Not sure if "notes" would be the proper term for this category, as it also includes such things as Landmarks and Samsen's short story. Perhaps moving the notes into their own separate category would be a better alternative. --Kelcat Talk 06:31, June 3, 2015 (UTC)

Nope Agree with kelcat, they're not all notes. I think texts lets us cover a broader array of items without trying to cram too much into one category -Seekers of Truth heraldryHD3 (Talk) 13:53, July 15, 2015 (UTC)

Veilfire glyphs Edit

This shall become a collection of all those notes only readable in veilfire – to see, how much of them exist and if a separate category or listing would make sense. I place my signature here, the list will follow then; updates will not include a new sig (I hope, this is okay). -- UserCCCSig -- You talkin' to me? -- cCContributions -- 12:32, July 19, 2017 (UTC)

  1. Note: Ancient Writing
  2. Note: An Apostate's Message

Hinterlands and Valammar =Edit

For some reason a strange glitch happened. At least I think it's a glitch. Hinterlands and Valammar are both in this category, but when you try to edit them out, it doesn't show up in categories. Thoughts? User signature henioo henioo (da talk page) 00:15, August 20, 2020 (UTC)

I found the issue and corrected it. --Zj24 (talk) 09:12, August 20, 2020 (UTC)

Inquisition Notes format discussion Edit

I think we should create a universal format for Inquisition notes, in order to simplify the process.

My suggestion is to treat the notes as codex entries (quick example). At the top we have the "See also" (optional). Afterwards the paragraph is named "Codex text" in this case it would be "Note text". After the note text we should have optional paragraphs: "Acquisition" typically needed when the listed location found inside the Template:NoteTransformer is not explanatory enough, then "Trivia", and finally "See also".

As it is the case with Codex entries, no screenshots of the ingame text of the notes should be added ("Gallery" paragraph). It serves no purpose since you have already extracted the content of the screenshot. A respectable number of them has been added around the wiki and it should be removed. Viktoria Landers 12:15, November 21, 2017 (UTC)

In general – fine by me! (Though I might have not the time at the moment to help a lot. "Guten Tag" – Big smiley )
That formatting basically would eliminate the introductory text, I placed in most notes I have done until now. That's something, where codex entries do deviate from the general layout of pages. As there for now are no plans to transform the notes, as it is done with many codex entries, might it be okay to keep that section? Of course acquisition content can be moved to its own section.
About that screenshot-gallery thing: I only tried to find a continuation of what I found on many, many pages that dealt with notes – many contributors have upped many screenshots of those notes, and added them to many articles (locations, quests). I simply didn't want to remove all their work.
And their purpose as "proof" for the correctness of the note: well, you can always look after that specific codex entry in your codex in-game – but these notes are gone after the message pop-up, and aren't comprehensible anymore. Do the screenshots hurt? -- UserCCCSig -- You talkin' to me? -- cCContributions -- 12:39, November 21, 2017 (UTC)
Frankly I think we should treat Inquisition's notes in the same manner as Codex: Notes of Origins, they just don't have the word "Codex entry:" in front of them. So what happens in codex entries should happen to notes. If one gets an introduction then so does the other.
As for the screenshots. I think it started this way, before people created independent pages for the notes. Now they have no use, frankly when I first read them I was confused I thought there was something new I could read in those. Also repeating the same text over with an image is reduntant, don't you agree? Viktoria Landers 13:23, November 21, 2017 (UTC)
"Go!" for the first topic.
How about placing the screenshots as IB image? Icon wink
It's been a lot of work, cleaning all those images up, giving them a pure black background, and such … But it still would require a lot more of work to do the same for all the remaining notes.
Perhaps somebody else has additional thoughts on this?
-- UserCCCSig -- You talkin' to me? -- cCContributions -- 13:42, November 21, 2017 (UTC)

I have discussed the subject with Comple in the chat too. But more opinions are definitely needed before we write down a solidified policy. Viktoria Landers 14:21, November 27, 2017 (UTC)

In chat you said something like that this was up to us, and no one else would care … Icon wink
To summarize:
  • No images anymore
  • Page structure similarly to codex entries
  • Possibly adjustments to {{NoteTransformer}}, to integrate more sections (related, see, trivia, etc.) into the infobox/transformer
If there are no different opinions for … say, until christmas, we will establish this as guideline, perhaps adding a note to appropriate ones.
Though I have to repeat that at the moment I do not have much, if any, time to care about the project.
One open question: as the note itself, its image wouldn't really fit as an infobox image – do we leave that empty in any case (and remove the field from the template) or do we allow a picture of the exact location of the note, where it's to be found?
-- UserCCCSig -- You talkin' to me? -- cCContributions -- 10:34, November 28, 2017 (UTC)
P.S. Please don't call me "Comple", Vikt … Icon wink Either use the full name (and I prefer a lower case initial letter) or for short "cCC". Smiley
Actually people call me Vik and I am pretty fine with it Smiley Anyway, cↄC, here is my opinion about the point you raised regarding the infobox image:

An item page shows the item in question and a codex entry shows an image of the related subject (eg. Andraste), a quest page shows a scene from the quest. In our case we should follow this guideline too, so I believe this note for example should have the picture of the bronto trophy in Winter Palace. If there isn't an appropriate picture which will be frequent considering many notes are too trivial and vague, we should show nothing. Viktoria Landers 14:34, November 28, 2017 (UTC)

I was asked to weigh in on this discussion; honestly I don't have much of an opinion about notes, but I agree there should be some sort of standardization. What you guys have listed here looks fine to me. Smiley Kelcat Talk 21:46, November 29, 2017 (UTC)

2 and a half years later, we haven't really decided how to handle notes?User signature henioo henioo (da talk page) 00:15, August 20, 2020 (UTC)

Part of this discussion stems from the note images added to Freemen Orders, Red Templar Note and Red Templar Orders; see Talk:Freemen Orders for further details. As far as the image of the notes: hud vs no hud, I feel the wiki should keep the format intact, the person reading/ viewing the note should see the note the same way that they are found/ viewed in the game. --Zj24 (talk) 01:52, August 20, 2020 (UTC)
Are we able to make a final decision as to how note text images should be captured: see Freemen Orders for note texts captured without a hud; see Red Templar Note for note texts captured with a hud. From an editor's perspective leaving the note intact allows for the note text's image to be the same size on any page that they are added to; it allows for the the page to have a sense of convection allowing for a cleaner look for any reader visiting the page. From a player's point of view I would prefer to see the image the way it is found in the game. If the note text's image is cropped, it may seem (to a casual player) as if info has been omitted or deleted intentionally. --Zj24 (talk) 18:49, August 20, 2020 (UTC))
I vote to keep the image intact with a hud --Zj24 (talk) 18:49, August 20, 2020 (UTC)) Yes
Either images or (accurate!) transcriptions of the notes is fine with me. I think the best way to refer to/describe them is something like 'Non-Codex Texts', rather than 'Notes'.  Also, for consistancy, should non-codex texts from the other games in the series (things like Wanted List from DAA) be rolled into whatever the new format is? ~ theskymoves (talk) 12:41, September 2, 2020 (UTC)
The decision to label all the various notes as: "note texts" was agreed on sometime back in 2016. I don't really think changing the name or restructuring all the notes to 'non-codex texts' really will make that much of a substantial difference. As far as the other games are concerned I'm not sure how the wiki plans to move forward with similar texts. As for the current discussion as to finalizing a consensus as to whether the hud should or shouldn't be kept in tact. I prefer we do keep all texts completely as is, without cropping the image... allowing for a player to view the note the exact same way it would be viewed in the game. --Zj24 (talk) 23:30, September 2, 2020 (UTC)
I vote to use images with a hud, for the reasons Zj24 outlined above. --Evamitchelle (talk) 12:14, September 6, 2020 (UTC)
We have decided what to do, I am not sure why you state that we didn't. Viktoria Landers 11:59, September 14, 2020 (UTC)
i don't see the consensus. What is it, then? Because it looks like there are just some comments, and no actual consensus. User signature henioo henioo (da talk page) 16:19, September 14, 2020 (UTC)
I would love to know what the consensus was as and the link stating it; seems that there are several editors here that would like to have this topic concluded. --Zj24 (talk) 17:09, September 14, 2020 (UTC)

Revisited Edit

Hello all, please consider this topic in general reopened, as several new stakeholders have arrived with differing arguments since 2017. Discuss amongst yourselves & please try your best to reach consensus here in this fresh section, further action regarding this subject should halt until there's been proper time for discussion & everyone to weigh in.
UrsuulTalkAdminDate5:35 PM Monday, September 14, 2020 (UTC)

I think we should have notes written down like codex entries, with the exception that we don't create a page for every single note - it needs to have value and bring something to the table. We could include a screenshot of the note in the gallery, but I'm not too bothered if we don't have a picture at all. And if we do have a picture, we should follow DA:IMAGE and not include any HUD elements. User signature henioo henioo (da talk page) 20:11, September 14, 2020 (UTC)
Kelcat agreed with the presented opinions. There were no naysayers. That means consensus was reached. Typically she should have detailed once again what was agreed but, well, she didn't.
What we did since late 2017 was to treat notes in the same manner we do with Codex entries. Let me enhance and embellish into a fully formulated proposal:
  • Create a new page for every different note. The page's name would also have an identical layout:
    "Note: name of note"
  • The important part is that we should link said note to other pages, such as locations and quests where it is acquired, character pages that said note is being attributed to, lore pages in case something is noteworthy, etc.
  • The layout on the page would also be identical to codex entries, ie. the text of the note, followed by a paragraph about its acquisition. Optionally a notes section too, in case we really need to add some remarks.
  • Finally, we would also try to put a fitting image if we can find one.
  • In-game screenshots mentioning again the note's text provide zero value, it's time to stop a malpractice that it's been going on since 2015. We don't do that for codex entries, we don't have a reason to do that for notes either.
Viktoria Landers 22:10, September 14, 2020 (UTC)
Is there a reason note text & codex entry images have become such a big issue? I merely proceeded to mimic what was already on the wiki; but for some reason 4 years later certain editors are finding this to be an issue. If this was an issue or if consensus was reached then why are the text images already on 1000+ pages (appearing on items, weapons, quests, note texts, codex entries, galleries, etc.).
  • Create a new note text for every note found, that’s what I am doing, as hundreds are missing
  • Link said note to other pages of relevance
  • Layout on the page is identical to codex entries
  • The image of the text itself is a fitting image
  • We don't do that for codex entries, we don't have a reason to do that for notes either. Incorrect.
I’m confused as to why removing note text and codex images are even being discussed. They make the page they are attached to easier to understand, especially if the note text or codex entry read in-game initiates a new quest. I have been adding note text images and codex images for over a year and suddenly it has become an issue? Why not have the image included? …text images allow for the player to see exactly what they should look like in the game just in case they missed it while playing, or perhaps they wanted to confirm any misspellings (like what is currently being debated with Codex entry: Storvacker) or maybe they just want to be sure who ever typed in the text actually typed it in properly, etc. The DA wiki is supposed to be extremely thorough; why we are we settling for mediocrity? --Zj24 (talk) 00:18, September 15, 2020 (UTC)

Obviously we all have opinions as to what is considered relevant and what is not. As I played the game I oftentimes wished I was able to look at a codex or note text image again after I closed it on accident without having to reload a save from 15+ minutes back; but that was from my personal gaming experience as DA is packed full of lore and I enjoyed reading them. Seems that some of the editors preach having to click on less pages to find what a potential reader is looking for, but it seems that this is apparently true only sometimes.

Take a look at the following pages. How is having the text image not considered better? Blood Brothers, Note: A Letter in an Empty Home (Blood Brothers)

Codex entries are not transcribed as they are found: via image to text. However note texts are. Allowing for a cleaner look to the page as the image mimics what is found in-game. Vic talk’s about the wiki not being enforced… ok, fine, then why hasn’t anyone said anything to me about this over the last year? 13 months to the day to be exact. Had I not invested hundreds of hours cleaning pages I wouldn’t be having this conversation, but as I am heavily vested I am standing my ground on the matter.

As a compromise: if you don’t want the images of codex entries on their respective pages I can deal with that as I have been heavily focused on note text images: what they relate to, what they should link to, and if one is not available- creating it. Being told that you are doing something against consensus and policy a year later is pretty insulting considering most editors on the DA wiki know how much time I’ve voluntarily put in to cleaning, updating and creating pages during this time.

Considering DA4 is around the corner, if everything I’m doing now isn’t being done, it’ll never get done. Let’s be real how many edits are still taking place on DA pages outside of Inquisition. I’m not stating that no one does any edits; I’m merely stating that Inquisition is still fresh in most people minds compared to the other titles. The wiki is fluid and ever changing, if the images make a page better so be it. Not everyone agrees, but that’s life. I would prefer if: the DA wiki used different colors, used different templates, the information on the page was laid out differently … but unfortunately those cards have already dealt …so let’s move on and stop making a everything a big deal.

Editing is supposed to fun, it’s supposed to encourage others to want to partake … the whole disambiguation thing, no one since 2015 seemed to care about the format until I made a made a few edits that were similar in manner to what was already there, then all of a sudden it became a big deal. Now it seems I find myself in the exact same situation …a big deal is being made over edits that existed on the wiki long before I made my first edit in 2015. My goal when editing a page is to improve a gamer’s experience in looking for something and having it be easily accessible. I’m not overly worried about the gamer that knows how to code finding information on the wiki …my focus is laying out the information on a page in a way the casual gamer would enjoy/prefer seeing the information. --Zj24 (talk) 22:59, September 15, 2020 (UTC)

I definitely think we should keep images out of the codex entry pages. We didn't add them to DAO and DA2 codex entries, and as the vast majority of DAI's 600+ codex entry pages don't have them now, it would require a prohibitive amount of work to complete for extremely minimal benefit. And as you said, with DA4 around the corner and DAI already 6 years old, I find it doubtful that we'd be able to complete the project anyway. So I'm for keeping text images out of codex entry pages and removing those few images that already exist.
For note texts, while I don't find them necessary and think the first priority should be to transcribe note images into text form if they haven't already, at this point, I think removing them would be too wasteful. --Evamitchelle (talk) 11:14, September 16, 2020 (UTC)
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