It seems as if the discussions has been updated to include a certain limit of time for how long a user can edit their own posts. How much time is it until a post becomes "locked" that way? One day or two?
For me, it is the other way around. He's everywhere, yes, but this makes it worse, 'cause he is a Chantry stooge afterall. Besides him getting kinda arrogant concerning other cultures at times ("Unimaginative"? Seriously? Dude, look in the frickin' mirror!), his motivation for his studies is stated in his DAO codex: he essentially does what one could call "opposition research".
"Yes, share it. Spread the word and more will come under the Chantry's power. Is this not what you want?"
"Eh, nope." *throws knife*
To be honest, I usually kill him, even if the Urn is left alone.
Given that the game was written with a human protagonist in mind and only broadened when development time was extended... Anything that is not human (or a city elf in case of a circle mage) is pretty much off, unfortunately. Technically especially Dalish elves, unless they hide their Vallaslin/have none yet and perform the elven servant act for spying purposes. Otherwise, they'd perhaps just watch from further away, but this complicates the "player characters bumbles into Justinia and Corypheus"-scene, as I guess it is intended to have happened inside the TotSA.
Lavellan asking "Who's Mythal?" is still extremely grating.
For DAO, going strictly by stat spread, it is actually kinda easy...
For humans, well, their bonus stats are all over the place, so there's some waste depending on class: The point in MAG is wasted warriors and rogues, the point in CUN is wasted on mages and warriors and the points in STR/DEX are largely wasted on a mage, unless you plan to go Shapeshifter. Arcane Warriors might welcome the DEX point, but still don't use STR.
Regarding "magecourse"... oh, so it is a mix of mage and discourse. I'm used to just calling it mage-templar debate. *lol*
Magecourse is getting into the whole mess of 'good' and 'evil' and 'genocide' and 'the Chantry hates all mages' and all kinds of other terms that are often thrown around. I have no desire to get involved in that. In fact, @CaiusGermanicus just proved my point. Magecourse is the entire mess of mages and Circles and Templars, and usually involves groups of people simply screaming at each other and assuming the worst intentions, and is remarkably unproductive.
... and it seems like you kinda proved or expanded Caius' point with regards to bias, at least to me, given I haven't seen that many exchanges on forums where a lack of invocation of "warmongering terrorist abomination" was tolerated. I've seen precious few people not dumping on Fiona either, but in her case muddled by how DAI derailed her as a character. Not sure about social media spaces, but people there tend to form interest/opinion groups staying within their own "bubbles", at times for understandable reasons.
In case 'genocide' was aimed at my earlier use of the term, I did not apply it to mages, as I'm not sure if it is fitting. I guess not, though I cannot shake off the impression that they are treated like a race at times. This doesn't undo the Chantry's record and intents otherwise, at least according to UN definition, which seems to cover culture.
No. The Gallows was not beyond the save – only in Meredith's head... BUT even Meredith argued only with "people will demand blood" – what is obviously a great argument for a massacre... but just proves, even she was not able to find another "argument".
I'm kinda amused how this comment from her flies in the face of the "but templars protect mages!"-argument. Not that I buy it, but the flip-flopping and disingenuousness doesn't help the case.
I posted that on the Discord server. (I know there are people who have that link to the archived old-BSN) Here the whole old Anders' topic with Hepler's and Gaiders' posts
I'm not going to register on Discord, sorry. Perhaps I'll dive into 78 pages of what looks more hostile and a bit more a of dogpiling than anything I've seen here.
It seems as if the discussions has been updated to include a certain limit of time for how long a user can edit their own posts. How much time is it until a post becomes "locked" that way? One day or two?
we have confirmation from the writers that Meredith, after Anders blew up the Grand Cleric and the other Revered Mothers, had given over the legal authority to invoke the Right of Annulment to Meredith. He has said that Cullen's objection wasn't that it was illegal, it was that it was unjustified/immoral.
Kinda would like to see that, as... Cullen is one of the most inconsistent - or spontaneously retconned - characters of the whole franchise. As for the game, he isn't present when Meredith declares Annulment and doesn't say much during the scene at the Gallows docks as far as I recall. Some say it appears as if he only cares once Meredith obviously (for him) wants to kill Hawke. A convenient last-minute change of heart, to use his own words.
The entire point of Anders' actions was to ensure that Meredith would annul the Gallows, killing most of the mages, in the hopes it would cause other Circles to rebel. In fact, he can say much of this depending on the dialogue you choose.
Yep, he played her in the end. Though it is still left to question if/how much he knew about her direct request to Val Royeaux.
we also have canon statements that Templar abilities work on blood magic - therefore, it can be blocked by Templars. Templar abilities can't undo what has already been done by blood magic, but that's a separate thing.
I'm not quite sure, but I guess you are referring to that one tweet saying that templars can prevent a fireball being cast via ordinary magic, but while they cannot prevent a spell-cast via blood, they still might try to undo the fireball however.
I'd say it even makes sense that templar abilities only go so far - as in that the Chantry's rhetoric (and hypocrisy) regarding blood magic also in part relies on keeping up the templar's advantages, along the same lines as mages are barred from some sort of basic martial training.
What is "magecourse"?
Moral wise that depends on your pov and if you think there's any innocents at all in the corrupt Circle.
Pretty generalising, isn't it? I mean, usually the range of mages of a circle starts with some kids (youngest example of manifested magic I can think of is four, but Merrill was probably less inclined to... subconsciously suppress/hide her magic than the average andrastian-influenced kid).
...and all of the Mages we encounter when attacking the Circle every single one are Blood Mages no matter the faction you sided with.
Eh, I did not count them. There's also a bunch of rather illogical things here, like what are supposed circle mages are doing outside, in Kirkwall, at nighttime. Aren't they supposed to be locked into their quarters? (see Karras' comment) Did Meredith leave the door open?
Though there's one point to be made: the mages are awaiting an absolutely indiscriminate templar attack. Templars can't block Blood Magic, or at least not as well as the ordinary kind. Of course it is a self-fulfilling prophecy the Chantry is only too willing to exploit.
The Circle is corrupt...That's the only precedent needed to invoke the Right that the Mages of the Circle are rebelling or practising forbidden magics.
Eh, "corrupt" is a well-worn phrase in fantasy, but problem is, alone it says absolutely nothing. Especially if is so casually thrown around in religious rhetoric. As for "rebelling"... uhm, yeah. Giving a templar a look he doesn't like can be construed as that. Who would listen to the mage anyway. As for "forbidden magics", yes, "Drugs are illegal because they are banned."
If any Mage is truly innocent they would submit/surrender/Help the Templars against the Rebels/Terrorists/Blood Mages. They're not innocent if they stay silent about the actions of Evil Mages, They're not innocent if they think their rebellion is moral, They're not innocent if they're active combatants utilizing magic that brutally murders people and/or summons Demons and/or overwrites the free will of others.
Eh, so any mage who doesn't meticulously toe the arbitrary line set by the Chantry or down to whatever templar "asks" (they usually demand though) is automatically guilty? That's just one tiny slip away from the "guilty forever" crap the Chantry preaches.
Funny how you invoke the "stay silent in the face of evil" trope here. I mean, by that standard, I'm inclined to regard any cleric and templar and perhaps even a circle mage who doesn't actively move against Chantry BS as "guilty". Heck, perhaps even a whole bunch of civilians who do so or at least benefit from andrastian politics, imperialism and casual genocide.
The only Mage I KNOW is innocent is Bethany
How? Perhaps she killed a templar in self-defense? That's evil. She's also kinda... rebellious at this point. Cannot have that according to your standard.
The Right of Annulment literally allows me to spare their lives while I end the threat all of these Evil Mages pose.
Uhm, no. It is literally precluded on the notion that a whole circle is supposed to be "beyond saving" (by whatever arbitrary standard!) and has to be destroyed to the last person.
Plus Meredith goes completely insane and we're forced to kill her anyways.
That's hindsight, but even then, one could also use that to argue that siding with her is pointless anyway.
So yes siding with the Templars is moral you can in fact spare innocents or try and you no matter what stop the radical leaders of both factions.
Besides the (situational) Bethany I already adressed, I guess you mean that trio in the cutscene? Do you know them? Of course, by your own standard that only mages who submit (apparently to the Chantry's every whim) are "good", I guess these three automatically pass. I mean, perhaps they also killed a templar in self-defense or summoned a spirit?
Oh, and apart from the fact that the scene doesn't make much sense with regards to Meredith not pulling rank on Cullen. Of course, this could prematurely lead to a fight with her if Cullen doesn't back down similar to her boss fight.
Then Hawke even goes on to try rebuilding the city in the aftermath instead of running away in the Mage ending.
You mean, before being bullied away by the templars? *lol* Anyway, do you expect a Meredith-defying Hawke to stay around and trying to... chit-chat with the remaining templars? One usually cannot argue with them on a good day.
That's BS they're the most problematic players but the tensions between Mages/Magic and the rest of Thedas are too far deep rooted into the very culture and history of their entire continent to be seen as so simple an explanation.
Well, almost a millenium of systematic, concentrated bigotry and abuse defended with "Maker's Will" does that. *lol*
To add to that, it'd be a case of "since the building gets burned down anyway, why not grab these books that are supposed to go up in flames" sort of thinking. (Yes, I think about this a lot, with all the lost works over the millenia.) We could grab things that would've been destroyed had we not interfered, but not important things that would alter history had they disappeared.
I guess that depends on what exactly one would want to take. If it is, say, the umpteenth copy of a mass-produced book that's widely available otherwise. there might be no effect, but why preserve it in the first place? If something is "lost", it implies for me that recovering it could change the course of history (or at least the later understanding of it), even if just a 'lil bit. I guess there's also always the allure of doing just a bit more, like "If I recover that book which tells us some minor thing we did not know because it was lost, why not...put some Deathroot into that asshole's tea while we are here?"
Anyway it's such a complicated trope that it wouldn't make sense to base a game off it; the writers would all end up mad.
^^^ That example... doesn't really work. As far as Chantry personnel is considered, they are not gov't contractors in this example, there are gov't employees. A kind of executive decision-makers in case of the higher-ranking clerics, special forces in case of the templars and the closest thing to clerics in general could be political officers/"commissars", due to the dogma part.
^ This kind of phrasing doesn't sound refined, but I fail to see where it is an attack. I did not debate anything RL. I stated my issues with a rhetorical construct he uses extensively and which doesn't really help the argument in question, what I perceive as this constructs failings (like false opposites) and where I thought it could stem from, which I suppose was too much.
The time magic can only work with the veil, not around. Or at least when the breach was a thing.ss
As Dwarftank and me mused above, I guess it is actually that less veil=more time magic. With the normal undamaged veil, everything was just pure theory, as Dorian puts it. A big tear made something possible, so even less veil might make more possible.
Either the past is set and you simply go back to fulfill history
In this case, I'd ask why someone would want to use time travel in the first place. What's the motivation except for being a spectator to historical events they already kow happened in some way? Of course, there might be some sort of middle ground invoked, fixed points in time like the Doctor puts it. On the other hand, just remembering how that guy regularly changes rules and moves goalposts until everything is just a wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey ball. *lol*
^^ Eh, Rivain is one small country that is pretty much divided on the frontlines... that's not quite equivalent to the two behemoths whose ideologies control the daily life of several millions beyond that land. I would not turn that around as some sort of evil Rivaini seers scaring poor good Maker-fearing children.
^ Yeah, DAI is mess in that regard. I'd like the writers to at least be bit more concious of the andrastian perspective creeping up to the out-of-universe/meta level. Else this is probably going to be kinda embarrassing.
Damn... if you going to invoke even more pro-/anti-shorthanded dualities, I'm afraid I'm gonna barf over all my keyboard. Do you want that? *lol*
Not inclined to use RL-styled (U.S.?) political monikers here, as they are reductionist, quite often insufficient, locally limited anyway and will just lead to a hit with the banhammer. I mean Also, the dualties suck. I can see that some people like to invoke them to disparage their chosen opponents, but I'm not getting myself defined as "pro-Y" or "anti-X" just because I don't buy the crap of disingenious "pro-X-ers". I suppose all this "pro-"/"anti-" way of describing things shorthand comes from certain culture war debates like abortion? Even more of a reason not to use it.
Linking the wiki article would've been enough. *lol* Gotta have to look up the exact timely details in Asunder for that, I guess. Weirdly, none of this undoes the Exalted March threat and her mostly reacting to the Resolutionists and caring about Elthina's useles butt, not about what Meredith does.
Cassandra isn't "moderate", which is a rather meaningless moniker anyway most of the time, perhaps even dangerous, especially in situations where deviating from dogma isn't encouraged much, like... with anything Chantry. I mean, I'm not the one complaning about "radicals" without ever defining it. Cassandra is a quite literal example of a conservative. Sees nothing wrong with how the Chantry did in the wider scope of things, except that some people were a bit too mean and should be nicer in the future. And why should she? Unlike the red-headed heretic, she was not exposed to the shitty side of things that much as well as not being affected by it herself, unlike, say, Madame de Fer. She's also extremely fond of invoking nonsensical false equivalencies regarding mages and templars.
It was Meredith and Orsino the ringleader the actual corrupt leaders that lead to all of the abuse to begin with.
False equivalence in my book. What did Orsino do within the circle before Meredith snapped? Nothing that I know of. He conversed with what was a serial killer which Meredith didn't really try to catch that much while being busy with kicking the circle mages, yes, but otherwise? Heck, he isn't even involved with Thrask's shenanigans.
Elthina was an innocent murdered...No not doing anything doesn't justify death otherwise a whole lot of people deserve to die in the DA world and ours.
That comparison doesn't really work, as these other people you mean were arguably not in positions of authority/command in a strictly hierarchical organisation, which other people referred to to make decisions. Elthina is. She's also quite arrogant and a wee bit callous. If she doesn't seem to care much what happens in the Gallows, fine. I don't expect much from a Chantry official in that regard. Yet she also does not intervene as Petrice starts shit, which Elthina doesn't seem to be overly suprised about in that one scene where Petrice is finally/optinonally finished off by a Qunari archer. Elthina does not seem to care as the people Petrice riled up, her flock, went on to attack the Qunari (and Hawke) and get themselves killed, and provoke a war the is surely not in Elthina's interest, given she prefers everything being quiet and "as usual". I cannot help but wonder if she's either totally callous or just extremely ignorant. "Respected Granny" vibes or not.
^^ Eh, what was that about throwing stones and glass houses? Taking the Qun as a minority is ideed off. In-universe minorities are any elves or humans who are neither andrastian nor followers of the Qun. Perhaps Vashoth as well. It is a bit more complicated with the Dwarves, as they aren't very numerous, but more of the danger of extinction they are facing comes from Darkspawn, less from cloud-gazing zealots. But our perspective in-universe is largely dominated by one imperialist side, the andrastian one, contrasted to the "other"/"weird"/foreign Qun. Heck, there are players who address "Chantry-Land" using "we".
Something which behaves generally agnostic, but atheist (or nay-theist) towards scripture/dogma-thumping idiots. Voted Creators just to see the results. *lol*
Oooh, this kind of topic tends to look like the Kirkwall chantry rather quickly. Anyway.
There's no "neither". If you insist not to take a side, Meredith bitches and demands you to fall in line, then making clear that anyone not 101% with her is on her kill list.
At first, I mused about about side and class connection, as a mage Hawke following Meredith's orders is somewhere between boomerang bigot/hypocrite and too dumb to live, given that Meredith is pissed about Hawke's station as Champion since the end of Act 2, as she seemed to have wanted the reputation coming with defeating the Qunari herself. So by Act 3's end and given Meredith just invoked Annulment on the circle for the crime of one unaffiliated apostate, Hawke would be dumb not to expect that this isn't a kinda of Uriah Gambit at best. Oh, and that's actually the point: an apostate blew a Chantry, and Meredith turns around, ignores the apostate and uses his deed as a justification to invoke Annulment on her circle, which she was already trying since early of Act 3 (by sending request directly to Val Royeaux), as freely disclosed by Ser Karras.
Anders was wrong peace was in fact an option...
Which is something he doesn't really know, it seems. Might just be a writing thing, since Justinia perhaps wasn't fleshed out as a chracter at this time in development. But I'll get to that.
Only two people needed to die to achieve it.
Who? I suppose Meredith and Orsino? Sure, the latter had something bad on the record, but he is fundamentally unimportant in the grand scheme of things. Who else? Elthina for tending an untenable status quo? And in hindsight, Lord Seeker Lam(e)bert for his various assorted BS?
The Divine at the time he commits his action is Pro-Mage to reform both the Circles and Templar Order to better the treatment of Mages.
Okay, here we are. What's with all the "pro-x" and "anti-y" shorthands? Where do they come from, as they basically say nothing on their own. Justinia is a politician and about as "pro-mage" as you are. *lol* Also, that Justinia who muses about ordering an Exalted March on Kirkwall during Act 3?
The leader of the Chantry already knew and was taking steps to fix it.
Which is something Anders doesn't know. Apart from the fact that it hinges on the templars actually... agreeing with those steps, which they never seemed inclined to.
You can't fundamentally change the whole society of at least half the known world in only about 3 years...Especially when you're changing something with deep traditions and based on whether or not certain people are a danger or not. It takes something Anders couldn't accept...Time.
Eh, as within his own personal capabilities, Anders did a few things before thinking about gathering shit to build a bomb. His pamphlets are apparently everywhere, but we are never able to actually read them and it is all played for lolz. Also, if we go by Meredith itching for Annulment ever since early Act 3, there's precious little time left if you don't want a one-sided bloodbath in the circle and the Seekers then quickly covering it up... again.
I have no idea if EA Desktop has its own perculiarities, but there's common issue with the the console input not showing up on screen. In case that's your problem, here's the usual fix.
^ This. Of course one could wonder if the Veil is gone completely, what this might mean for "time" in Thedas in general. That being said, I would rather Bioware not go down that rabbit hole of time travel.
^ Which we don't really know in advance, and even going by his final appearance, I'm not super convinced that he's just an average PD. Why not just take over the player chracter directly?
Blood Mage is actually pretty good secondary spec to AW, as far as I remember. Gives a decent disabling spell which is sure to attract a lot of attention for a tank-minded AW, if the victims survive, that is. I personally could not make Battlemage work that well, as the mana drain of both AW and BaM sustainables together was usually too much. Stoic also doesn't seem to help much with it, given AWs are meant to avoid damage, but is does trigger from self-inflicted BM damage.