190 Votes in Poll
"Freedom fighters don't take part in genocide."
He was a freedom fighter in the past. In the present, he is fighting for the freedom of elves as a tyrant against all others. I would agree with you that what he is doing now, that isn't in the spirit of what a "freedom fighter" is.
"But Solas has nothing but contempt for them. If he truly wanted to make up for the past, he'd be more caring for modern elves. Instead he has nothing but contempt for them. He only keeps them alive as long as their useful. Once they outlive their usefulness, he'll kill them all."
I addressed this in my last post. Either counter what I said or do us both a favor and don't repeat yourself please. I would agree that he doesn't seem to worried about what happens to dwarves, qunaris and humans for if the Veil is brought down. Elves though, I don't agree with you.
"Love means being honest with each other. And he was not honest with his allies. Love also means giving up things."
You are hung up on the issue that he needs to be transparent with the Inquisitor and his allies. He doesn't. He has no obligation to them. He is own person with his own desires. Get over it. He loves his cause more than his new friends. That isn't unheard of.
"Hey y'all, so glad to meet all of you. I love meeting new friends. You know that Fen'Harel guy? You know? The Trickster God that the Dalish dislike, that is me! I know! Crazy right! Aaaanyways, long story short, I awoke from my thousand(s)-ish years slumber, I'm going to tear down the Veil and reset the world back to my time. Probably won't end up to well for you peasants. Here is the problem, and I will need your help in this. I wasn't able to power up my unique elvish superweapon by myself. So I just gave it to the guy that assassinated your Divine and blew up countless people. Some of them were your friends. Help a brother out would ya'?"
Honest from the beginning...
"And don't use this double standards bs on the Dalish."
Please read what I wrote. I was comparing how the Dalish treated Solas when Solas tried to approach certain Dalish clans. *Generally speaking, it is incredibly rare to find a Dalish elf that doesn't look down on non-Dalish elves.* You are talking about how the humans have treated the Dalish and City Elves. Which I agree is horrible, yet, stay on point. It has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
"A New Elvehnan in the interest in the interest in modern Elves must convey to the needs of Dalish and City Elves,"
Dalish Elves and City Elves are two wildly different cultures. They need to be separate from each other. Especially since the Dalish generally speaking, look down on City Elves.
If he loves his cause more then the Inquisitor, does that make him a hero? It doesn't. So how can I trust his words, when his actions contradict them? And there are Dalish who are more friendly. A Dalish Warden and Inquisitor are prime examples. Their clans are also more welcoming. The Warden's clan accepted an escaped City Elf, and the Inquisitor's clan tries to built friendlier relationships with humans.
Never lump a culture into one pile. The Dalish are a diverse people with good and bad apples among them. The same applies to Dwarves of all the castes and casteless, Humans of all walks of life, Mages, Templer's, Priestesses, even the Qun'ari have good apples among them. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to play as one or have Qun'ari allies in your party.
There's no such thing as a "general person" of any walk of life in Thedes.
@Godzillavkk I think it's quite clear by now that you and Dwarftank have the opposite philosophically opposing views on Solas and his cause/ideals/deeds, So I think you both need to relent a little and accept to agree to disagree. Anyways beyond that I think it's also clear that Solas isn't about killing off all the modern Elves (Dalish and City and Tevinter Slaves) that it's more so about killing the sects that disagree with him and keeping alive the sects that do agree with him that the other three species of sapients have to die and the world has to go back to the evil Elvhen Empire "Golden Age". Simple...He'll kill a man like Fenris and spare a woman like Merrill/Velanna.
@Dwarftank Speculation on the Pre-Veil world...We legitimately got no idea if other Humanoids existed or not on the planet and whether the Blight/Taint existed or not...Though my guess is they did Humans didn't come that much longer after the Elvhen Empire waned while Dwarven and Qunari societies seem ancient older than the about three thousand years of Human history and contact we know of. As for the Taint codexes all around Inquisition actually hint towards yes it was around and even fucked with the "Gods" and that it's origins is most likely in the "Void". But there's no hard facts so the reality of the Pre-Veil world is truly still unknown...But if it's anything like our world most likely the Elves *THOUGHT* they were the only people around but on the other side of the planet there was dozens or hundreds of "primitive" societies that would go on to develop when the Elves came to ruin.
"If he loves his cause more then the Inquisitor, does that make him a hero? It doesn't."
To each their own. What makes a person a "hero" depends on the person I suppose. That is why Boromir from LotR is so fascinating to me. To Frodo and Sam, he is this weak man that tried to take the ring from Frodo. Yet, to Merry and Pippin, he took a heroic last stand , greatly outnumbered in trying to defend them. So, is Boromir a hero or a weak man?
"A Dalish Warden and Inquisitor are prime examples."
I should have been more specific, find me a non-player controlled, non-exiled Dalish Elf who doesn't look down on city elves.
"The Warden's clan accepted an escaped City Elf,"
Edit. The Warden's clan accepts Pol to join the clan if he submits/converts to their Dalish culture. Acceptance would be if they allowed him to join the clan and allow Pol to keep his customs that weren't Dalish. This is under the assumption that Pol's customs were City Elvish or Andrastian or whatever. I have no idea. Don't confuse acceptance with submission. This is also the same clan that wouldn't allow Feynriel's mother to raise him in the clan after his dad bails on him because Feynriel's father was human. Conditionally of course, this situation can be fixed later in life with the help of Hawke.
"and the Inquisitor's clan tries to built friendlier relationships with humans."
Again, everything I mentioned above has to deal with the relationship between City and Dalish elves. Stay on point.
"The Dalish are a diverse people"
There are 4 humanoid races in Thedas. Only one of those, elves, can be accepted into a Dalish clan. That isn't diverse. The Dalish clans aren't even that welcoming of a person whose parentage is 50% elvish. That isn't very diverse. Considering that information, I would assume Dalish clans aren't that favorable of any sexual relationships that can't produce a child because, their numbers are small, they only accept elves, and they want to keep their culture alive. A culture that they are very proud of. The only way to keep that culture alive under those conditions is for dalish elves to keep reproducing elves who will become dalish or to convert city elves into Dalish elves. The Dalish, although they have many different clans, they all practice the same religion. There is no tolerance for anything else but for revering the Evanuris. Any city elf that joins a clan must abandon their old customs and assimilate into being a Dalish elf. The Dalish aren't diverse at all.
"Otherwise you wouldn't be able to play as one or have Qun'ari allies in your party."
I disagree with you. Government in of itself is immoral. For Government to operate, it is done so by violence and/or coercion. Those two are enforcers of the state. I have yet to find anyone on this forum to think that the Qun is moral. Those two are puppets for the Qun, *Sten conditionally, becomes a puppetmaster.* How can the Qun be immoral and yet the state agents of the Qun be moral?
"There's no such thing as a "general person" of any walk of life in Thedes."
Find me the dwarf or dwarves that loves being considered casteless at birth by the "noble" dwarves? Find me the Dalish Clan that has non-elves in their clan? Generally speaking, Templars think mages should be in circles. Is that a wrong statement? Generally speaking, Mages want to be free. Would you consider that statement to be false? Generally speaking, people want to be loved rather than not being loved? Do you disagree with that statement? Generally speaking, qunaris are taller than Elves. Generally speaking, casteless dwarves and dalish elves have face tattoos. etc etc etc etc.
It is interesting to think about, and your guess is probably better than mine.
But if you had to serve to save your family from being killed, doesn't that technically count as being good intended? I'd never forgive myself if my family was killed in these circumstances.
And the way you phrased your sentences suggested they did deserve it. I suggest you work to make your sentences clearer. My mind is on the high functioning end of the spectrum, so it processes information differently.
"But if you had to serve to save your family from being killed, doesn't that technically count as being good intended?
No. Not in the slightest.
"I'd never forgive myself if my family was killed in these circumstances."
That is nothing to worry about. They would kill you too.
"And the way you phrased your sentences suggested they did deserve it."
Show me the exact sentence or sentences and lets go over it.
But you're doing it so that you don't lose them. It's a no win scenario, and sometimes we get these scenarios, and we have no choice.
If they wanted to kill me or disown, that's their fault. I do what I do for them.
Practically all your comments suggest it. Maybe to your POV, they sound like one thing. But to mine, they sound like something else.
"But you're doing it so that you don't lose them. It's a no win scenario, and sometimes we get these scenarios, and we have no choice."
I would consider it a "win" by not participating directly or indirectly with genocide. But, I'm just weird like that.
"If they wanted to kill me or disown, that's their fault. I do what I do for them."
Yeah, generally speaking, the majority of people don't like people that participate in genocide. Shocker.
"Practically all your comments suggest it. Maybe to your POV, they sound like one thing. But to mine, they sound like something else."
***Waiting for you to produce any of my comments specifically.***
Then your family dies. I'd never forgive myself for that.
Again, that's their problem, not mine.
I gave you your answer. You've just refused to acknowledge it.
I've had to come in and do some cleanup. I will remind everyone of the rules against bringing in Real-World politics, and apologize that we as mods didn't notice it sooner.
Please keep the focus on DA!
What do you think?