Which one is the stronger one between the two? My opinion goes to the dwarven warrior.
Which one is the stronger one between the two? My opinion goes to the dwarven warrior.
"I was thinking the same thing about you, but I was polite enough not to say it. The dwarves are not the flash. They are not 1,000 times faster than the qunari. I doubt they're even twice as fast. In a one on one fight, with no weapons or armor, being like 50% faster doesn't matter."
Lol. Feel free to find that I said anything about the dwarves being quicker than qunari or that the dwarves are quickest humanoids in Thedas. *Spoiler Alert, I didn't.* All I said is that I think the dwarves are the most impressive athletes in Thedas and I gave me reasoning with real life comparisons. Since you are so concerned about politeness, could you please refrain from quoting me with false and imaginary points? Thank you.
Yes and no, about faster being important. In an enclosed area, yeah, the quickness/faster advantage isn't as a high. In an open field or a big area, than yes. Being quicker and faster is a big advantage.
"So, the dwarves can have superhumanly strong muscles but the qunari can't? Um, no. If you're going to play by real world rules, then the dwarves are at even more of a disadvantage."
The hell are you talking about?
"But this isn't the real world were talking about. Iron Bull swings massive swords and axes about like they're paper bags."
Technically within the gameplay. All genders and races have the same attack speed.
"A dwarf is unlikely to be heavier than that."
Dude. Typically medieval two handed swords weigh 5-7 pounds. A Dane Axe was 4ish pounds. A sledgehammer would probably be close to his default weapon. You can get a twenty pound Sledgehammer. I will be generous and say that his Bull's Edge is 50 pounds. An adult male dwarf, in my estimation, is between 180-220 pounds. Again, weapons don't fight back when you swing or hold them.
"Of course they would offer resistance. But that wouldn't matter, since the qunari is stronger."
The qunari would have to be overwhelmingly stronger. I've seen no evidence in the game that a qunari is overwhelmingly stronger than a dwarf. Dwarves use big ass mauls and unlike the qunari, wear heavy ass armor doing so.
"Most of the time, there are many other factors at play. Weapons, armor, numbers, and potentially magic. Remove all of that and you've boiled it down to simply physical advantages. The qunari are the obvious winners there."
Indeed. They are generally stronger than humans. Does or could an exceptional human possess "qunari" strength? That I don't know. Strength isn't the only physical advantage. Movement is rather important.
"So, you're assuming that qunari are the Mountain and dwarves are gorillas? That's not a reasonable assumption. I say we have two gorillas, only one of them is three times bigger than the other. No one in their right mind would bet on the smaller gorilla."
I'm not a fan of assuming anything. Pointing out that all muscle isn't created equal. Gave an example of a smaller being stronger than a bigger being.
"But we aren't talking about humans."
Making the same point about a smaller being stronger than a bigger being.
"Saying it twice doesn't make it true."
Neil Peart is dead. Neil Peart is dead. Sweet, he is alive!
"But not regularly in fair contests of strength. Humans can beat the qunari because of superior numbers and magic. If the dwarves could defeat the qunari in a war, it would largely be because they are better smiths. The qunari seem to shun armor and magical equipment, to their great disadvantage."
There can be limitless reasons why and how someone beat someone else. All I know is this. The qunari's size and strength advantage isn't overwhelming enough to overcome all those other potential factors. This is why I think their strength is over exaggerated. The Qunari's best advantage is that they are the superior naval power and that their homeworld is so far removed from the rest of Thedas that they can grow, build, research and develop their infrastructure with little to no outside interference from the rest of Thedas.
"More invalid human comparisons. We're not dealing with human limitations here."
Comparing isn't the point. The point is even if you are the one percent of strongest people in the world. It doesn't mean that you will be agile.
"We're talking about a one on one fight. Mobility and flexibility are very useful in many other situations. But in a one on one fight with no weapons? It's still an advantage, sure. Just not a big enough advantage to make any difference whatsoever."
Yeah, moving effectively is important. Otherwise you are a fleshy punching bag and better hope that you have overwhelming strength and an unbreakable chin.
"I said they could gore them after the dwarf was pinned down. They wouldn't vulnerable if the dwarf couldn't move."
It appears that it is rare for their horns to be facing forward. They typically point to their sides or back of their back head. If a qunari's horns do point forward, it still might not be a viable attack to make because of their horn length and the distance and position they have this being pinned down in.
"Are you still imagine horns like Iron Bull's? They aren't all like that. Most of the qunari have horns that do not stick out any further than hair does. Look at the pictures of the common qunari on this page:"
What are horns? Sharp and hard pointy things, yes? Why would you want all of your soldiers to have hard and sharp pointy things that serve no practical function? Animals that have horns, need those for protection. Fortunately for qunari, they can wield an assortment of weapons and resort to their hands and feet if need be. Animals, not so much.
"The qunari would have to be pressed skin to skin for their horns to even touch each other."
Yeah. That is how a shield wall and phalanx works. No gaps.
"Bull's horns are an extreme exception."
I'm sure he isn't the only one with a large rack.
"Not in and of itself, no. But I didn't say that. I said size difference is an advantage. Since that works both ways and both qunari and dwarves are trained fighters, the size difference advantages they each have cancel each other out."
The size difference is an obvious advantage if you are dealing with the same species. Dwarves and Qunari's are biologically different from each other. That is why I have no clear conclusion on who is stronger between the two.
"However, larger mass is an advantage, and height contributes to that."
The dude who plays the Mountain is heavier and taller than an adult Gorilla. His larger mass has no advantage against a Gorilla.
"Five foot ten is average, not short."
Correct, he is average human height. However, he is below average human height in comparing other heavyweight boxers.
"Besides, in order to approach the size difference between qunari and dwarves you'd need to compare a little person to someone whose well over seven feet tall. Compared to that, the few inches between a 5'10" person and a 6'3-5" person is nothing."
Correct. The reach difference is dramatic in comparing those two. That was not my point. My point is even if one person has a reach advantage. It isn't a silver bullet. A person can overcome that advantage.
"Quite the opposite. The smartest thing for the qunari to do would be to pin the dwarf down, so that they can no longer use all that superior mobility. Whether this is done with one limb or two or three doesn't matter."
Lets say that for this scenario there is a qunari that is seven feet tall with a 90 inch reach and a dwarf that is 3 feet and six inches tall with a 45 inch reach. *This is arm length, the leg length difference would be even larger.* There is 45 inches, nearly four feet of damage that the qunari can cause and the only thing that the dwarf can do is take the hits or dodge them. If a dwarf can't close in nearly four feet of that reach. That dwarf has a 0.00000000000000000001% chance of winning the fight. Only an act of God could save that dwarf. If the dwarf closes that gap, now the dwarf has a chance at winning. What that number is? No freaking idea. Depends on the two fighting.
The obvious problem for a qunari to consider is that even though their reach advantage is significant. A dwarf is so short a qunari would literally be punching down and be putting their body in unfamiliar positions.
"Which they are. Like I said, dwarves are not the flash. Their superior mobility is not great enough to make them untouchable."
Yeah, I never said Dwarves are the Flash either. We agree on something. As far as the mobility goes, that depends on the match up.
"You mean, right where they can get kicked in the head? Are you assuming that the qunari are all stupid, or that dwarves are all spider-man? Neither is the case."
Spider-Man? What is with all this comic book stuff? Yeah, a qunari could kick a dwarf in the head. But, smaller dudes tackle big dudes all the time. The most effective way to put someone on their back is to de-stabilize their legs.
"Given that dwarves are not stronger than qunari, this would only be possible if that particular qunari is a complete idiot. That might be the case in some fights, but not often."
I wouldn't say that is given, but to each their own. I wouldn't say that the qunari would be a complete idiot either if a dwarf brought them to the ground.
"You do realize that Oberyn lost to a much bigger dude who was currently on his back? Because that fact really undercuts your point."
If you define lose as, the Mountain's piss was basically just pus, his veins and blood turned black and it took over two weeks for the Mountain to die from the manticore poison and that his screams could be easily heard throughout the whole Red Keep for over two weeks and he ends up becoming a Franken-Zombie. Then yeah, I guess Oberyn lost.
Besides, if the Red Viper wanted to kill him. He would have. He wasn't going to kill the Mountain until Gregor confessed that he was ordered by Tywin to kill/rape Oberyn's sister and her children. Which he got. Which those were the Top Three of the Revenge Checklist. Get confession, Tywin and Gregor dead. Tragically, that confession didn't have no real influence of hurting Tywin and Oberyn died brutally. He didn't die because he got Gregor on his back, he died because he was over-emotional (how could he not be) and he didn't respect the ferocity and strength of a dude that was strong enough to wield a six foot Greatsword and a shield at the same time while wearing heavy plate armor.
"As does qunari physiology. Dwarven physiology would have to break it much moreso to make up for the size difference between them, and there's no evidence that it does."
There are plenty of humans that are the size of qunari. What the strength difference is, is there one? I don't know? But for the Dwarves to be as athletic as they are with that frame is more impressive in my mind.
"That is an incredibly awkward grip. Even big & tall qunari don't appear to have hands large enough to grab a dwarf's head or brawny shoulders enough to pick them up one-handed. Given the previous suggestion of holding with one hand and beating with the other, that maneuver seems unlikely."
Preach. It isn't happening.
^"Feel free to find that I said anything about the dwarves being quicker than qunari or that the dwarves are quickest humanoids in Thedas."
You've implied that the dwarves are more mobile and flexible. That equals quicker. If you don't actually think this, then why in the name of the Maker do you think a dwarf would have any chance of beating a qunari? Do you think that they are actually stronger than the qunari? That they are more skilled? That they are tougher? So far, all you've done is pointed out that the dwarves have a slight mobility advantage. If you truly believe that's all the difference between them, then you must overvalue mobility to an insane degree.
"In an enclosed area, yeah, the quickness/faster advantage isn't as a high. In an open field or a big area, than yes. Being quicker and faster is a big advantage."
In terms of escaping, sure. But unless the dwarf plans on running around until the qunari collapses from exhaustion, extra space wouldn't make that much of a difference in a one on one fight. And even that tactic assumes that the dwarf wouldn't become exhausted first.
"The hell are you talking about?"
This:
"The record for a single bicep curl is 135 pounds. No one isn't lifting anyone off the ground with one arm without that person getting their lower torso involved, let alone throwing them around like a rag doll."
Which I also directly quoted in my previous post. You keep harping on how superhumanly strong dwarves must be, but then you go and use an example of human limitations for qunari.
"Technically within the gameplay. All genders and races have the same attack speed."
Which is further proof that the dwarves cannot possibly be significantly faster than the qunari.
"Strength isn't the only physical advantage. Movement is rather important."
Well then, that explains why Usain Bolt is the heavyweight champion of the world.
"Neil Peart is dead. Neil Peart is dead. Sweet, he is alive!"
Nor does saying it twice make it untrue, obviously. Why repeat yourself, then?
"Yeah. That is how a shield wall and phalanx works. No gaps."
Qunari don't fight like that, and not because of their horns. They don't use armor and if they use shields, they only use little tiny crappy ones. This has as much to do with their psychology as it does with tactics. They are far more concerned with accomplishing their goals than protecting their soldiers.
"If you define lose as, the Mountain's piss was basically just pus, his veins and blood turned black and it took over two weeks for the Mountain to die from the manticore poison and that his screams could be easily heard throughout the whole Red Keep for over two weeks and he ends up becoming a Franken-Zombie. Then yeah, I guess Oberyn lost."
I define getting one's head squashed like a melon as losing.
"He wasn't going to kill the Mountain until Gregor confessed that he was ordered by Tywin to kill/rape Oberyn's sister and her children. Which he got."
Does he say that in the book? In the TV show, Gregor admits to killing and raping her, but he never says that Tywin ordered him to. (And to be fair, the raping part probably is on the Mountain. Why would Tywin want him to do that?)
"He didn't die because he got Gregor on his back, he died because he was over-emotional (how could he not be) and he didn't respect the ferocity and strength of a dude that was strong enough to wield a six foot Greatsword and a shield at the same time while wearing heavy plate armor."
Look again at the second half of that sentence. Now think about what that means. Here I'll help you: it means that Oberyn lost because he underestimated just how much stronger than him the mountain was. And I would say that he also lost because that poison took a little bit longer to work on the Mountain than it would on a normal man. And why is that? Because of his size.
"But for the Dwarves to be as athletic as they are with that frame is more impressive in my mind."
Pound for pound, dwarves may be the most physically impressive. But the thing is, they have fewer pounds than qunari or humans. And their superior proportional strength is not enough to make up for that difference, at least when it comes to the qunari.
"... You keep harping on how superhumanly strong dwarves must be, but then you go and use an example of human limitations for qunari."
Really, all we have for a reasonable comparison is human capabilities since both are a fantasy race. However, both move as freely and easily as any human so the contrast may not be so far-fetched.
"Qunari don't fight like that, and not because of their horns. They don't use armor and if they use shields, they only use little tiny crappy ones. This has as much to do with their psychology as it does with tactics. They are far more concerned with accomplishing their goals than protecting their soldiers."
Actually, we don't know how adaptive qunari tactics are. We've only ever seen individuals like Sten or small cadres like the one led by Arvaarad or during the Kirkwall outbreak. In larger engagements, they could very well utilized shield-wall maneuvers.
Oberyn lost that fight the second he let his emotion overwhelm his sense, but that is a discussion for an entirely different fandom.
"Pound for pound, dwarves may be the most physically impressive. But the thing is, they have fewer pounds than qunari or humans. And their superior proportional strength is not enough to make up for that difference, at least when it comes to the qunari."
We don't really know that the dwarves actually 'have fewer pounds than qunari or humans'. Given their build, the dwarves appear to weigh in at least as much as a sturdy human and some of the brawnier males look like they could reach qunari heft.
"You've implied that the dwarves are more mobile and flexible. That equals quicker. If you don't actually think this, then why in the name of the Maker do you think a dwarf would have any chance of beating a qunari?"
It is basic physics, bro. The bigger a thing is, the more effort and energy it takes for that thing to start, stop, and go again. I agree with you in guessing that an adult male qunari are around or at least seven feet tall. With the muscle mass and definition they have. Weight is tricky to guess, but, they have got to be at least 300 pounds. Females are probably around Six foot seven and around 220ish? Name me any seven foot tall dudes with that mass that move well? The only one I can think of is young Shaq. How impressive he moved for his size. He wasn't guarding smaller dudes on the perimeter.
Do you think that they are actually stronger than the qunari?
I never said that one was stronger than the other. They are biologically different, I have given plenty of points stating of smaller beings being stronger than bigger beings. Not all muscle is created equally.
"That they are more skilled? That they are tougher? So far, all you've done is pointed out that the dwarves have a slight mobility advantage. If you truly believe that's all the difference between them, then you must overvalue mobility to an insane degree."
Your words. Not mine. I have my doubts that Qunari are overwhelmingly stronger than qunari-sized humans or dwarves. I'm 50/50 on who is stronger between an average dwarf and an average qunari. There isn't enough evidence for me to lean one way or another.
"In terms of escaping, sure. But unless the dwarf plans on running around until the qunari collapses from exhaustion, extra space wouldn't make that much of a difference in a one on one fight. And even that tactic assumes that the dwarf wouldn't become exhausted first."
A dwarf (or anyone) doesn't need to run around great distances to avoid an opponent. A dwarf needs to move around just enough so the qunari can't strike or grab them.
True enough, a particular qunari may have better stamina than a dwarf. However, keep in mind that Dwarves are typically half the height and weight of a qunari. A dwarf also wears armor *usually heavy* when they fight while qunari wear little to no armor. They also do most of their fighting in the Deep Roads which don't have much for resources. My money is on the dwarf having better stamina than a qunari.
"Which I also directly quoted in my previous post. You keep harping on how superhumanly strong dwarves must be, but then you go and use an example of human limitations for qunari."
Why repeat yourself if it is untrue or true....
Yeah, the strongest human in the world can't curl more than 135 pounds. Which, is a dumbell. Compact, small. Made and designed to be lifted. Thinking that any other race has the strength of a DA Ogre by snatching up a humanoid being around 200ish pounds with a single arm is absurd.
"Which is further proof that the dwarves cannot possibly be significantly faster than the qunari."
I was being a smart ass. So, if we are going to think like the game and not account for biological differences between the humanoid species. Then the elves are by far the strongest beings in DA because they can do just as much as the others while being the shortest, lightest and have the least muscle mass out of everybody. I guess that concludes this argument.
*Qunari can do the most damage, not because of the size or muscle. But because biologically, there body can survive applying Vitaars on there face.*
"Well then, that explains why Usain Bolt is the heavyweight champion of the world."
Sarcasm doesn't fit you well. Last time I checked, a boxing ring isn't a 100 meters long. Movement is more than just sprinting. We all have some time on our hands now. Go watch Muhammed Ali fights on Youtube.
"Nor does saying it twice make it untrue, obviously. Why repeat yourself, then?"
I could ask you the same thing. I will answer your question. To hammer home a point that I think is important.
"Qunari don't fight like that, and not because of their horns. They don't use armor and if they use shields, they only use little tiny crappy ones."
I doubt they wouldn't use shield wall tactics. They aren't dumb, they would know that they can form a formidable shield wall. Directly engaging a fighting force that is in tight formation while your fighting force is loose. That is a wipe.
"I define getting one's head squashed like a melon as losing."
Yes, he did die. He also went to King's Landing to get justice for his family. The two main people that hurt his family, died. Without Tywin. The Lannister family disintegrates.
"Does he say that in the book?"
Yes.
" In the TV show, Gregor admits to killing and raping her, but he never says that Tywin ordered him to. (And to be fair, the raping part probably is on the Mountain. Why would Tywin want him to do that?)"
There is a lot of bad blood between Tywin and the Martell's before the sacking of King's Landing happened. Tywin ordered it and Gregor always carries out what Tywin says to the letter.
"Look again at the second half of that sentence. Now think about what that means. Here I'll help you: it means that Oberyn lost because he underestimated just how much stronger than him the mountain was. And I would say that he also lost because that poison took a little bit longer to work on the Mountain than it would on a normal man. And why is that? Because of his size."
First off, read the books. They are fantastic. Secondly. thanks but no thanks with the help, good sir. The Mountain was incapitated. All the strength that he had left was to get TRV on the ground, roll over and get on top of Oberyn. He had nothing left. His wounds from Oberyn's spear and the manticore poison that was altered with sorcery was already taking its affect on Gregor. *Manticore poison in GoT acts quickly and lethally. The person dies fast. Oberyn was a student of the Citadel. He loves those poisons. He altered the Manticore poison to work very slowly so that the Mountain would have a very slow and painful agonizing death. The moment that The Red Viper drew blood on the Mountain. Gregor was fuuucked.* They had to carry Gregor's body back to the Red Keep, because he was incapable of walking on his own or even with support. There was one thing that Oberyn shouldn't do. That was get inside of Gregor's reach. It was an ultimate choke job by the Red Viper. It is the equivalent of being up 11 points in a basketball game with 15 seconds left and somehow losing.
A dwarf would have to get close to a Qunari to beat them, what are they going to do? Talk 'em to death? A Qunari doesn't have to get close to a Dwarf to beat them since they have the reach advantage. This is pretty basic stuff.
"Pound for pound, dwarves may be the most physically impressive. But the thing is, they have fewer pounds than qunari or humans. And their superior proportional strength is not enough to make up for that difference, at least when it comes to the qunari."
All muscle isn't created equal.
^^"We've only ever seen individuals like Sten or small cadres like the one led by Arvaarad or during the Kirkwall outbreak."
The qunari in Trespasser don't fight in a shield formation either.
"We don't really know that the dwarves actually 'have fewer pounds than qunari or humans'."
The heaviest dwarf male probably is heavier than some of the more petite humans. And definitely more than the petite elves (Sigrun is probably twice the mass of Merrill). But every single qunari we've seen is buff, and even the shorter ones approach seven feet.
^"My money is on the dwarf having better stamina than a qunari."
Hm. Probably, yeah. Okay, so in a open area, a dwarf could theoretically tire out a qunari and win that way. I could see that happening. That doesn't actually make them stronger than qunari, though.
"Thinking that any other race has the strength of a DA Ogre by snatching up a humanoid being around 200ish pounds with a single arm is absurd."
I bet Saarath could do it. But fine, maybe the average qunari would need to use both arms to lift up a dwarf. That doesn't really change much.
"So, if we are going to think like the game and not account for biological differences between the humanoid species. Then the elves are by far the strongest beings in DA because they can do just as much as the others while being the shortest, lightest and have the least muscle mass out of everybody."
Well proportionally, maybe they are? The OP is about overall strength, not proportional. If we're talking about proportional strength, the elves or dwarves have it for being smaller and still carrying as much and moving as well as humans and qunari.
"He also went to King's Landing to get justice for his family. The two main people that hurt his family, died. Without Tywin. The Lannister family disintegrates."
Oberyn had nothing to do with Tywin's death. Given that he died before Gregor, I would say that he lost.
"Tywin ordered it and Gregor always carries out what Tywin says to the letter."
He ordered him to rape her too? That's effed up. What does he possibly gain from that?
"First off, read the books. They are fantastic."
After watching season 8? Hard pass.
"A Qunari doesn't have to get close to a Dwarf to beat them since they have the reach advantage."
How exactly are they going to hurt the dwarf without touching them?
"All muscle isn't created equal."
But the question is how unequal is it? It would have be exponentially unequal in order for dwarves to surpass qunari in strength.
Dwarves are strong as in being resistant to Magic and fine weapon Smith's
Qunari are strong in physical strength and strategy
It's a 50 50 split. I think both sides have a fair shot
Unless the Dwarves brought a few Golems. Then they might have the advantage
P.S we are talking on land right. Because I dont think Dwarves would come across Qunari ships and their gunpowder. Some hate being on the surface as it is
"Hm. Probably, yeah. Okay, so in a open area, a dwarf could theoretically tire out a qunari and win that way. I could see that happening. That doesn't actually make them stronger than qunari, though."
True, based on that, that doesn't mean a dwarf is stronger than a qunari. (That also doesn't mean since the dwarf may have better stamina and mobility, that the dwarf isn't stronger than the qunari.)
"I bet Saarath could do it. But fine, maybe the average qunari would need to use both arms to lift up a dwarf. That doesn't really change much."
Based on the gameplay "logic," Saarath wouldn't be able to do that because he isn't a warrior. Which is dumb. I agree with you, that a ogre-sized qunari could possibly lift a humanoid with one hand. I have so many questions about Saarath.
What is the birth rate percentage of Ogre-sized qunari? 1 in a 1,000,000? 1 in a 1,000? etc Can it happen to female qunaris? Since Saarath is a scholar. Do they give him a normal qunari sized desk? Does he read out of their normal sized books? Do they make Orge-sized qunari desks and books for those qunari? Are there Ogre-sized Tal-Vashoth and/or Vashoth living in Thedas?
"Well proportionally, maybe they are? The OP is about overall strength, not proportional. If we're talking about proportional strength, the elves or dwarves have it for being smaller and still carrying as much and moving as well as humans and qunari."
If you use gameplay logic, there is no overall strongest, fastest, quickest, etc. Everyone has the exact same physical abilities, *with the caveat being, that, qunaris can't use vitaars.* There is no debate for that. The Elves, using that "logic" of sameness, win in a landslide for proportional strength.
"Oberyn had nothing to do with Tywin's death."
Well................That might not be true.
"He ordered him to rape her too? That's effed up. What does he possibly gain from that?"
Tywin is not a good dude. He is as cunning as he is morally bankrupt.
"After watching season 8? Hard pass."
I have faith that George will stick the landing with the books. (That is, if he finishes them.)
"How exactly are they going to hurt the dwarf without touching them?"
Well, yeah, If the qunari can't land a blow against the dwarf. Then the reach advantage that the qunari have is negated. However, the qunari has 90 inches to possibly cause damage while the dwarf has 45 inches, (in this made up scenario.) If the dwarf can't close in 45 inches or grab a striking limb from the qunari and pull them closer to the dwarf. Then the dwarf is no threat to the qunari.
"But the question is how unequal is it? It would have be exponentially unequal in order for dwarves to surpass qunari in strength."
Yeah, that can happen. Life isn't fair.
^"True, based on that, that doesn't mean a dwarf is stronger than a qunari."
Right. The qunari are stronger than dwarves because they are more massive. Dwarves having more edurance on average is a separate issue.
"Based on the gameplay "logic," Saarath wouldn't be able to do that because he isn't a warrior."
There's nothing in the gameplay that says that mages are always weaker. In Origins they can actually equip everything that the other classes can, if they have the required stats.
The reason that mages don't use heavy armor and weapons are twofold:
One, they don't really have to. Magic is more powerful and more efficient than muscle. Plus certain spells can grant the same effective protection as wearing heavier armor. So, it's best to save all the heavy armor and weapons for warriors who really need it.
Two, in the south at least, templars/the Chantry deliberately deny mages the opportunity to learn physical combat skills. In the Ferelden circle tower, one of the enchanters set up a class for teaching mages basic non-magical self defense. The templars shut it down.
Reason two wouldn't apply to the qunari, nor would reason one in terms of armor. However, there's no reason to think that Saarath doesn't have a great deal of raw innate strength. He just doesn't need to use it, because he's a mage. He is even in the gameplay far more resilient than the typical mage.
"What is the birth rate percentage of Ogre-sized qunari? 1 in a 1,000,000? 1 in a 1,000?"
This is assuming that Saarath's size is natural and not magically induced. I'm not sure that's a given.
Even if it is natural, his magic is clearly more valuable than his size and strength. Assuming that it is natural, I would guess that it is rare enough to explain why we have only seen one qunari of his size, but not so rare has to make him truly anomalistic. So somewhere between one in a thousand and one in a million.
"Well................That might not be true."
Tywin was killed by Tyrion, who was freed by Jamie. I fail to see what Oberyn had to so with that.
"Tywin is not a good dude. He is as cunning as he is morally bankrupt."
Yeah but, in the show at least, his motives appeared to be entirely practical. He did evil stuff to benefit himself and his family. Ordering the mountain to rape Oberyn's sister gains him nothing. Of course he wouldn't care if she was raped, but why bother to give the order? That's just pure sadism.
"I have faith that George will stick the landing with the books. (That is, if he finishes them.)"
George told the producers how the series was going to end. I doubt the ending of the books will be significantly different, though it probably will be executed better. Not that that's a high bar.
"Yeah, that can happen. Life isn't fair."
We see no evidence of the dwarves exhibiting more strength than qunari. More maneuverability, yes. More endurance, yes. But not more strength. Since the qunari are more massive, it makes sense to assume they are stronger.
Now, I admit that a fight might not be the best test of that. I previously thought so, but you and Shenachie have convinced me otherwise. There are too many other factors. Perhaps armwrestling or weightlifting would be a better test.
"Yeah but, in the show at least, his motives appeared to be entirely practical. He did evil stuff to benefit himself and his family. Ordering the mountain to rape Oberyn's sister gains him nothing. Of course he wouldn't care if she was raped, but why bother to give the order? That's just pure sadism."
Humiliation. Tywin was a cunning s.o.b.. By ordering such a personal attack on the sister, Tywin inflicts more hurt on Oberyn and his family. It's not physical damage, it's mental and emotional anguish. As shown in the later duel, it worked, and Oberyn lost his head - literally.
Given the general reception of the televised conclusion, it's possible GRRM might alter the ending of the books, but he'd actually have to get around to writing the rest of it.
"Now, I admit that a fight might not be the best test of that. I previously thought so, but you and Shenachie have convinced me otherwise. There are too many other factors. Perhaps armwrestling or weightlifting would be a better test."
Yes. Too many shifting variables in combat. One of those World's Strongest Man competitions or weight-lifting would be significantly simpler and likely more clear-cut. Thedas Olympics!
"There's nothing in the gameplay that says that mages are always weaker."
An Elven Warrior can kick a hole in a wall while a non-warrior qunari cannot. *A dwarf kicking down a wall is amusing. Logically speaking, they should have bashed it with their shoulder.*
"However, there's no reason to think that Saarath doesn't have a great deal of raw innate strength."
I agree with you. I was a taking a jab at the logic of the gameplay.
"This is assuming that Saarath's size is natural and not magically induced. I'm not sure that's a given."
Good point. If so, shouldn't they magically make every Qunari they can that size?
"Tywin was killed by Tyrion, who was freed by Jamie. I fail to see what Oberyn had to so with that."
Tyrion may have unknowingly "mercy killed" Tywin.
"Ordering the mountain to rape Oberyn's sister gains him nothing. Of course he wouldn't care if she was raped, but why bother to give the order? That's just pure sadism."
I can't stress enough of how evil of a dude Tywin is.
"George told the producers how the series was going to end. I doubt the ending of the books will be significantly different, though it probably will be executed better. Not that that's a high bar."
We will see. If he knew how the story was going to end. He would have already wrote it.
"We see no evidence of the dwarves exhibiting more strength than qunari."
Or vice versa.
"Since the qunari are more massive, it makes sense to assume they are stronger."
Yes, I would agree with that assumption if you are dealing with two beings that are the same species. Not all muscle is created equal. They are both wildly different humanoids, Dwarves coming from Titans (right?) and qunari coming from, well, wherever the hell they come from. Probably safe to assume that qunaris biology/physiology has nothing to do with Titans or wherever dwarves came from.
I can't wait for the vitaar and magic doping scandals for this Thedas Olympics.