User talk:Kelcat/Archive 1

Equipment Images
Hey thanks for getting images of Sigrun's starter weapons, we've been needing those for ages. You might have better luck getting higher quality images if you disable abilities which add glowing lights and if you took the image in a more brightly lit area. You also might want to consider equipping armor that contrasts with the colour of the weapon so it's a bit easier on the eyes. Obviously with Scout's Dirk and Ancient Dwarven Axe it's fine because they're both darker coloured while Sigrun's armor is brighter, but the lighting of the area makes that less clear. Think along the lines of something like Duncan's Dagger. You can also zoom in closer if you position the character with the weapon your taking an image of close to a wall.-HD3 (talk) 02:25, August 13, 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the advice! I knew there had to be a better way to get a close-up other than angling the camera up. I took the shots inside kal'hirol near the inferno golem, so I'll fiddle around with different places to get better light. I'm pretty sure I disabled all the abilities, though I might have missed one (either that or the armor set bonus might give off a glow). Kelcat (talk) 02:47, August 13, 2013 (UTC)

Restoring removed content
I restored a fragment you deleted. We have a separate page for that quest, but imagine a person who never played DAA and is reading the character page for a short summary of what happened to this particular companion. I think a short description of the quest and its outcomes would be appropriate, especially given that during this quest he can permanently leave the party. Besides, there is something we discussed long ago - we don't write character involvement sections as guides, but rather as stories. So we try to write "ABC has happened" instead of "it begins a quest ABC". On the contrary, quest pages are written as guides. Asherinka (talk) 18:51, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Second person vs Third person, They vs he/she
Hey Kelcat! I'd like to inform you that narrating a walkthrough in third person is equally accepted in naratting it as second person. Subsequently, you should not proceed with such changes unless there is a good reason.

Furthermore, calling the Warden as "they" or "he/she", is equally correct. And after a small research I've found out that the latter is recommended over the former.

Anyway, since you're an active contributor I was wondering if you are interested in helping out the wiki in more specific tasks. Oh and you can give your reply in your talk page, if you'd like, since I think it's for the best if we keep the discussion in one place. Cheers! 07:07, August 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi, Viktoria, what good timing! I see your point on second and third person being equally acceptable in a walkthrough, but is it acceptable to use both within the same walkthrough? That was what I wasn't sure of (since it felt jarring to me), so I just went with one over the other to make it consistent :D


 * Regarding "he/she" vs "they", I've been going off of the MoS which says the protagonist should be referred to with the gender-neutral pronouns of "they" rather than "he/she". Found here: http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Age_Wiki:PROTAGONIST#Protagonist


 * It seemed like a pretty concrete guideline, unless it's changed but hasn't been updated?


 * I'd be more than happy to help in whatever way possible. I've mostly been focusing on cleaning up, but if anything else is needed I'd love to help out. Kelcat (talk) 07:17, August 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh, I must have missed that particular ruleset. I'm gonna propose a change to it, once I gather some outside opinions.


 * From what I've noticed The Darkspawn Chronicles pages require a lot of attention. Both its items' but also its quests' pages. If you're interested you could focus your efforts in that section :) 16:07, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

Darkspawn Chronicles Equipment Images
Hey Kelcat, are you going to upload images for all the DC equipment? Just wanted to double check.-HD3 (talk) 05:08, August 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm planning to, yeah. I hadn't been sure about whether or not to make new pages distinguishing from their Origins versions, so I'll be adding them now as I work through a new playthrough (though the quality might not be the best, due to the crappy lighting in DC, heh). Kelcat (talk) 05:38, August 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * I know a lot of the weapons in DC have the identical appearance as in Origins. I'd like to propose that if they're visually identical and not exclusive to DC (like the darkspawn armour) we use the origins images.-HD3_Sig.png 07:15, January 19, 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm fine with that. I wasn't sure if people would balk since the images aren't of darkspawn equipping the items, but if it doesn't matter than that works for me. All of the items in DC are identical in looks to their Origins counterparts (at least all of the ones I found and created pages for--I don't think I missed any in the game though.) Kelcat (talk) 07:34, January 19, 2014 (UTC)

Darkspawn Chronicles
An excellent idea. I'll get to work on it right away. --MadHatter121 (talk) 23:19, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

Capitals for codex titles
Hey there! Just wanted to let you know the per the wiki's capitalization guidelines, codex entries should be titled "Codex entry: Blah, Blah" (lowercase for 2nd word), rather that "Codex Entry: Blah, Blah" (uppercase for 2nd word). Good luck getting through your to-do list! 08:14, September 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for letting me know! All of the DC codexes are missing, so I'll remember to capitalize correctly on the future ones. Kelcat (talk) 10:43, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

Possible Idea for Improvement
Hey Kelcat. If you're looking for a new way to contribute, I noticed there are a lot of equipment articles like Wade's Dragonbone Plate Boots that don't link back to the correpsonding armor set page, in this case Wade's Dragonbone Plate Armor Set. Just ""These boots/gloves are part of the X armor set" would be perfect. I would handle it myself but it's the busy season for us and i've got almost no free time thanks to the huge number of projects we've got due.-03:23, September 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * I can definitely take care of that. I cleaned up the ring sets before, but I never looked at the armor sets. I'll add it to the to-do list. Kelcat (talk) 03:37, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Minorest of minor stuff
Hey Kelcat! Could you leave a space after the transformer in item, character, etc pages? (example: here) It's really minor thing, but it's consistently used around the wiki and makes the page a bit more "readable" in source mode. Thanks! 12:56, September 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * Actually, the wiki's rather inconsistent in this particular instance, which can be frustrating. I've added spaces in only to have them removed by someone else, and I've taken spaces out only to have them added in by someone else. To me, taking them out looks best. It's cleaner and it reads fine. However, if you'd like to propose some sort of standard, I'd definitely get involved! Kelcat (talk) 14:45, September 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * Most pages have space between the infobox and the lead, and I also find that it makes the source much easier to read while not affecting the resulting page in any way. Since the result looks the same, I don't think there is any need to have a written standard for that. 15:39, September 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * All right, if it should be that way, that's fine. Honestly, I didn't use to remove the space until I started editing the lead-in on so many of the item pages and someone kept going in and deleting it. So I assumed that that was the way it should be. Kelcat (talk) 15:44, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

Mark of the Assassin Amulet Quests
Regarding that quest, that problem occurs in every version of that quest for all the DA2 companions, if you're interested it might be worth taking a look to see if we can establish a concise walkthrough for the gateway bug with the last amulet for all the quests.-HD3 (talk) 06:18, October 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't remember much about MOTA at all, but I can easily do a quick run through at some point. I tried to just clear up the back and forth convo in that section, but the instructions confused me :D Kelcat (talk) 07:53, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

Every companion except Tallis gets one version of the collect 3 of the medal/scroll/book w/e quests. There's always two of them in the dungeon section with the grate doors right before you break into the vault where the heart of the many is supposed to be held. It's quasi-bugged in every case so if we could set up a walk through explaining on this on the appropriate quest pages it might prove quite helpful.-HD3 (talk) 08:12, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

Darkspawn Chronicles stuff
Hey, I wanted to talk to you about something related to DC. It's kind of a big convo so direct chat would be useful. Do you use skype perhaps? 00:33, October 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I don't. I'm fairly averse to live chat of any kind, for different reasons. The talk page here works best, or you can email me if you want. Kelcat (talk) 23:07, October 20, 2013 (UTC)

Darkspawn Staff
I have removed the information of the Darkspawn Chronicles from this page as it was made strictly for the Origins version while I suspect you are about to create a separate page for this item. When you create the new page, don't forget to add the new disambiguation in Darkspawn Staff, Darkspawn Staff (Origins), Darkspawn Staff (Awakening) pages. Cheers! 09:11, November 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that. I completely overlooked checking the initial gear of the thralls :) Kelcat (talk) 16:12, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Quest abbreviations
I undid your additions to the Docks article under the quest section. I understand why you added them and the concept itself isn't bad. But it doesn't work out so well in practice. If you keep the descriptions short, they don't add enough information to warrant being there to begin with and if you add lengthier ones, they just clutter the article. Ultimately it's a lot cleaner and more efficient to just leave the quest name and rely on the individual quest article to do the work. -HD3


 * I didn't actually add those. The only thing I did was correct Renvil Harrowmont's link. :) I agree with the changes you made, though. Kelcat (talk) 06:42, October 30, 2013 (UTC)

Darkspawn Chronicles Quest
Hey Kelcat, I know you're heading up the overhaul of The Darkspawn Chronicles articles. I noticed the links for the quests,Smash the Gates & Free the Shriek are still dead. Are you going to write those up? The other thing I wanted to ask was, are you going to take care of adding images to all the new DC quest pages? I'd be happy to do it, but I won't be able to make any changes for another two months, so obviously I am not the ideal candidate. - 10:48, November 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * Hey! Smash the Gates and Free the Shrieks are the next two quests on my list to add, I just need to write them up. I did have plans to add images but my desktop computer conked out on me and my laptop just doesn't have the capabilities of taking very crisp shots. You're more than welcome to do it whenever you have time! (Oh, and most of the new weapon pages need images as well) Kelcat (talk) 22:22, November 2, 2013 (UTC)

Genlock arher/Hurlock archer thralls
Hey Kelcat. I was wondering if you could check in-game the class for the genlock archer and the hurlock archer thralls. In the wiki they are listed as warriors, but considering that they acquire dexterity, it's possible that they are rogues. Thanks! 08:45, November 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * Just checked and they are both warriors. I think the only genlocks/hurlocks in the game that aren't warriors are the hurlock emissaries. Kelcat (talk) 09:05, November 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks! By the way what are you going to do about the armor set bonuses now that Sophia was negative about it? 09:48, November 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm not entirely sure yet. I was using the Vanguard Plate Armor Set as a template, but just looking at the raw numbers in game alone I can't figure out how those armor and other stat bonuses are being calculated. I'll look at it more thoroughly tomorrow and see what I can come up with. Otherwise, I don't know if an article for the set should be made if it will be missing lots of info. Make it a stub, maybe? Kelcat (talk) 09:58, November 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * If you can't figure out the numbers, perhaps you could send me a DC save to try to calculate them myself. 11:02, November 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'll try to do some experimenting with it tonight and see if I can get the numbers to add up. I'll let you know if I need your help. Oh, and thanks for taking care of that redirect on the darkspawn shield--I got busy with other stuff and totally spaced it out! Kelcat (talk) 21:49, November 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * I see that you created the page yourself. Good job! By the way, when an item is missing its acquisition info, it might be worth checking out the Special:Whatlinkshere instead of adding the missing info tag. Usually the pages that link to the item in question, contain info on how it is procured, ie. a quest page. Alternatively, a merchant link is probably another source of acquisition. 09:27, November 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * Edit: Also I think it is preferable to list the lowest possible stats in Darkspawn Plate Armor and Darkspawn Plate Boots for consistency reasons (ie. tier 3 in this case). Furthermore, aren't the genlock (archer) and hurlock (archer) wear this armor too? 09:34, November 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh yeah, I was going to go back and fix those two pages and forgot about it. When I looked further into it I think the emissary is the only one who wears tier 4, all others wear tier 3. It's all genlocks and hurlocks that wear the armor--is it worth listing all of the thralls specifically rather than just the generic Genlock (thrall) and Hurlock (thrall) instead?


 * Indeed, genlock/hurlock archer (thrall) deserve equal treatment as they are fully fledged companions, much like their basic counterparts. Also please be careful and not capitalize the "thrall" word. This generates a redirect to the page instead of a direct link. 12:46, November 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * Also, I'm not sure what you mean by missing acquisition info. I don't recall adding the missing info tag to any pages recently (though that is a good tip that you brought up). Kelcat (talk) 15:42, November 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * I've noticed it while working on Imperial Reinforced Gloves article. You didn't make a mistake, I just gave you a tip which in the same amount of time instead of adding the missing info tag, you could find and add that info on your own ;-) 12:46, November 7, 2013 (UTC)

Bot-linking on your renames
Hey Kelcat! I think it's really tedious to do all these renames when a bot can do things automatically, much easier and in a smaller amount of time. Why don't you contact D-day to help you out? Here is your rename log. Cheers! 10:07, November 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * I actually quite enjoy it but if you feel so strongly about using a bot for it I'll check into it!Kelcat (talk) 10:37, November 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * You do? That's fine by me, my sole concern is that there are no forgotten links to redirects considering the sheer amount of your renames.  10:58, November 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * No link shall be left behind by me :) I’ve only got about 5 names left on the list and then all my renames have been taken care of. The only reason I did the bulk rename then was because it had been over a month since the new standards had been put into place but not many pages had been renamed. As of now, all of the “major” titles have been removed from page names (King, Emperor, Arl, etc). The dozens of pages with more minor titles can be left to someone else to rename so I can get on with other things, though at some point it’d be a good idea for someone to go back and fix the incorrect links for pages I didn’t rename myself (such as King Cailan Theirin).


 * Also, thank you very much for all your help with the Darkspawn Chronicles. This was a much bigger project than I’d expected, and bouncing ideas off of you has been a big help (as well as reminders when I forget to fix stuff). Kelcat (talk) 00:28, November 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yay! Thanks for your kind words There are still some chantry members and circle members left with titles on their names as far as I've noticed. As for renames from other guys, could you provide their names so I could find them and compile a list of their renames in order to be fixed by a bot? Also, I am wondering if you're interested to be granted rollback rights. I am considering to make a request to Tierrie in the coming weeks.  09:52, November 13, 2013 (UTC)

From memory and a quick look at the move log from around that time, these are the names that are in most need of redirects (unlinked so that this doesn't create another wrong redirect)

King Maric Theirin King Cailan Theirin King Meghren Arl Rendorn Guerrin Queen Rowan King Arland Theirin King Vanedrin Theirin King Brandel Theirin Queen Moira Theirin Prince Claudio Valisti King Endrin Aeducan King Calenhad Theirin Knight-Commander Greagoir

I wouldn't mind rollback rights at all. It would definitely be useful to me and I've seen a few times recently where it could have come in handy. :) Kelcat (talk) 17:20, November 13, 2013 (UTC)

Ceremonial Armored Gloves
hey,why did you undo my edit?JH EP (talk) 10:24, November 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Because the grammar, punctuation and spelling made the whole sentence completely unreadable. If you want to rewrite it go ahead, but please try to use better grammar so that your point gets across and refrain from ending sentences with multiple exclamation points. Kelcat (talk) 10:36, November 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * hey can you check grammar again and correct it if possible? JH EP (talk) 11:04, November 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks like user: Viktoria Landers moved it to the appropriate area and cleaned it up--between the two of you it’s much easier to understand. Viktoria is a great source of information and help if you ever need it! Kelcat (talk) 00:28, November 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * ok JH EP (talk) 00:32, November 12, 2013 (UTC)

Rollback rights
Hello! Viktoria has brought this to my attention, and I've seen you've been doing your fair share of reverting vandalism. Are you interested in obtaining the rollback tool to do it more efficiently? It would simply give you a one-click link to undo so you do not have to fill a reason to revert, although you will need to undo it through the history page for a legit edit that needs to be undone. Tell me if you want it! 19:57, November 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it'd be great to have that! Kelcat (talk) 00:53, November 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * You've been granted rollback rights. :] 03:39, November 17, 2013 (UTC)

Manual of Style discussion
Hey there! I would like to hear your opinion here, if possible  20:20, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

Bonny Lem Reply
We still need the prices for Bonny Lem from Leliana's song worked out and added to the table.- 20:29, December 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * Is there some special formula you do for that, or just manually look them up in the game? Kelcat (talk) 00:00, December 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * You divide the merchandise price with the value of the item. The number (result) you find should be the same for all items. Test it in 1 or 2 other items to verify that you found the correct number and once you do so add it in the CharacterTransformer of Bonny Lem as it happens in all the other merchant pages. 00:56, December 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * I couldn't understand any of that. Is there anyone who has done this sort of editing before? -~ HD3_Sig.png 11:24, January 16, 2014 (UTC)


 * I did, though it's nothing complicated. Just tell me the price of an item of Bonny Lem and I'll get the section fixed. 11:53, January 16, 2014 (UTC)


 * Well, he's got three different stocks throughout the game and I don't know if his prices increase or decrease between them, so it would require almost a complete playthrough. Which I unfortunately don't have the time to do. Kelcat (talk) 17:39, January 16, 2014 (UTC)

More opinions needed
Merry Christmas! It would be helpful if you voice your opinion in Dragon Age Wiki talk:Naming conventions as the subject is currently contested and stalled. Thanks! 09:26, December 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * done! :) Kelcat (talk) 09:51, December 25, 2013 (UTC)

Plot items & keys
Hey Kelcat, you did a superb job with the plot items! I think you've encountered some plot items which are also keys that have in their infobox the line: Plot items / Key

I'd like to hear your opinion on this. Personally, I think there should be a link to the keys page within the article, however if you think there is a better place for it, please let me know! 15:06, January 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * Yeah, the keys are the one thing in the plot items that weren't formatted consistently on their pages. You're probably right that they should all have both Plot items / Key listed in the infobox, and it should probably be reflected that they're Keys in the lead as well. I'll get the existing ones fixed up when I get a chance. Kelcat (talk) 15:50, January 7, 2014 (UTC)

Darkspawn Chronicles
Hey Kelcat, I just wanted to say, great work with the darkspawn chronicles articles. A very impresive and substantial overhaul. Can't wait to see the finished product once all the images and trimmings are done.- 11:24, January 16, 2014 (UTC)


 * I just now saw this--thanks for the praise! This reminds me that I'd planned to add initial equipment to all the thralls pages and never got around to it :D Kelcat (talk) 07:34, January 19, 2014 (UTC)


 * Sounds like a good idea to me. If you want to get on that, I can continue uploading the mission images. Or I could do it you prefer. It's your project really so i'll follow whatever you want to map out.-HD3_Sig.png 10:31, January 19, 2014 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I can work on that. It seems rather inconsistent as to what different thralls are equipped with, so I'll have figure out all the conditions regarding starting talents and such.Kelcat (talk) 00:26, January 20, 2014 (UTC)


 * Sorry if it feels like i've been spamming your talk page lately. Anyway, I've uploaded all the quest images now for Darkspawn Chronicles and also done some general clean up. Feel free to take a look over them and let me know if there's anything you think we should change. All I can think of that we still need to complete the DC section of the wiki, is rewrite Assault on the Palaces so it's structured like the other main quest pages, add origins images for the identical DC weapons and equipment and add the initial stats to the thralls.-HD3_Sig.png 10:03, January 20, 2014 (UTC)


 * No worries about the spamming ;D I'll go through all the pages as a final "once-over"--this was my first experience writing walkthroughs, so I'm not sure how great they are. Thanks for your help with the images, I'm glad we were able to get all of those taken care of. Your list of things to do sounds about right. I'm running into an issue with the thralls and their initial equipment in that it seems really haphazard as to what Genlock (Thrall)s and Hurlock (Thrall)s are equipped with. It may be that their starting equipment is dependent on what area they can be found in, as all of the genlocks I found in the Palace District only seemed to have Weapon and Shield talents--I couldn't find any with Dual Weapon or Two-Handed. It may require another quick run-through as I only have saves from the Gates and the Palace District. Kelcat (talk) 18:31, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

Epilogue project
Hi Kelcat,

I was wondering if you would be willing to help with an update of the Epilogue (Origins) page, which Viktoria suggested I could look at. I have reworked it into two separate articles in my Sandbox: the funeral and post-coronation ceremony are here, and the epilogue slideshow is here. The information on those pages is all as exact as I can get it, and contains everything I can get from the toolset. I've listed what is specifically missing from the articles at the top of each page. There is also a short discussion about the page here.

At the moment, I'm going through a 'clean' playthrough of Origins, and it will be a while before I can get to the epilogue to complete the article. I saw that you edited the Epilogue (Origins) page recently, and hoped you might be interested in working on it more. I completely understand if you don't want to - please don't feel any pressure. -Sophia (talk) 11:45, January 19, 2014 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I can definitely help with that! It's been awhile since I've done a playthrough, but I'm sure I have at least a few save files before the coronation begins. Are the items at the tops of the pages the only things you need help with, or does the body of the article need general cleanup as well (I haven't had a chance to go through it yet) Kelcat (talk) 00:26, January 20, 2014 (UTC)


 * Wonderful; thank you very much! The pages in my Sandbox are completely reworked and cleaned up versions of the existing article. The only thing on them that needs checking (other than what's noted in the sections at the top) are the link formats, some of which have been changed since I worked on these pages. I've been correcting these as I spot them (e.g "Grand Cleric Elemena" to "Elemena"), but if you notice any others, please feel free to fix them in the body of the Sandbox articles.


 * If it's okay with you, I was wondering if you'd simply paste any of the missing information that you're able to uncover into the top section of the Sandbox articles, and allow me to revise the main body of the articles with it. I say that only because I feel like I'm kind of holding the articles in my head at the moment, and would like to be sure that everything on them is consistent. Once they're uploaded to the main wiki, I'm sure they would be edited by other users, like any other articles.


 * Thank you, again, for being willing to help. Any addition at all would be very welcome. Just in case you're not aware of it, you can use the runscript zz_epi_debug command in the console to set various game variables (such as which Origin the PC has, and whether Alistair is hardened) going into the epilogue, which might help if you don't have a particular variation saved. As far as I know, there isn't a way to tell the game directly that the PC is Alistair's mistress, so it might be that you need to use the runscript zz_den_debug command to choose that path after the Landsmeet, and then use the previous command to jump to the epilogue from there. -Sophia (talk) 11:32, January 20, 2014 (UTC)


 * I'll see what I can do! I'm not particularly savvy with the console, but I haven't played around with it much. I might bug you for help if I can't figure it out :D


 * I saw that confirmation is needed for this bug:


 * "Confirmation of a bug: If the Hero is a female Human Noble and marries Alistair, the epilogue may mention that Alistair still has a relationship with the Hero, "much to Queen Anora's discomfort", as if Alistair had wed Anora and kept the Hero as his mistress."


 * I've played through the Human Noble marrying Alistair scenario about three times and I've never had that slide pop up. I can't recall any slide about Anora coming up in those playthroughs, given that Alistair relegated Anora to the dungeon. This was on the Xbox360. 24.119.38.178 (talk) 18:24, January 20, 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Kelcat! I checked with StillAlive who added that bug, and they confirmed that they encountered it on the Xbox360, on an up-to-date patched game. I think I'll leave it in as being confirmed, retaining the "may" wording so that it's clear that it won't always occur. You're right; normally, in that situation, no slides about Anora are supposed to appear. -Sophia (talk) 09:34, January 21, 2014 (UTC)

Assault on the Palaces
I was just uploading the header images for the DC subquests and i realized the Assault on the Palaces quest page actually needs some attention. All that really needs to happen is to restructure the page so it's got the same new layout as Massacre in the Market and the other DC main quest pages.- 07:38, January 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, I must have missed that one, I'll get it cleaned up. Thanks for pointing it out! Kelcat (talk) 08:01, January 20, 2014 (UTC)


 * btw, the quest page images are looking great Kelcat (talk) 08:02, January 20, 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Also I think Raze the Alienage might be bugged. There's a disambiguation link showing up right in the middle of the rewards section and I can't figure out whats causing it or why it's there. -HD3_Sig.png 08:35, January 20, 2014 (UTC)


 * Hm, I think that's because I renamed Enchanted Dagger (Origins). I'll fix it Kelcat (talk) 08:43, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

Plot items' value
Hello there! You've done a great job adding new plot item pages. However, could you please add their value too? I know it does not matter and is 0 or 1 most of the times, but in rare occassions, it might be higher and as a wiki we should list it. Cheers! 16:47, January 26, 2014 (UTC)

Also, I've noticed that Guild Supplies, Contract for Ambassador Gainley, Contract for Kadan-Fe Mercenaries and Contract for Paedan pages are missing their icon. I suspect you already know about this, but I thought it might be useful to mention it nonetheless. 16:57, January 26, 2014 (UTC)


 * Oh, right, I forgot about item values as I was using an Xbox playthrough to add those. I'll try to pull up an old PC playthrough to find the numbers. The icons that are missing are ones I can't find anywhere on the wiki--and I've checked everywhere. I'm not sure who to ask to see if they can be found or made. Kelcat (talk) 22:55, January 26, 2014 (UTC)


 * It's not anything complicated. Just an in-game screenshot of that icon and then a little editing with Microsoft paint (in order to extract the icon from the rest of the screenshot). Anyway, I'll take care of that. 08:29, January 27, 2014 (UTC)

By the way, the Tattered Note is not a plot item? If that's so it can be sold, and thus a value is important addition to the article. 16:22, January 27, 2014 (UTC)


 * Yeah that one I was going to ask you about, actually, but forgot! It's in the Plot tab of the inventory, with a value of 0, but as far as I can tell, that random encounter isn't tied to any specific quest. So I'm not sure if it should be labeled as a plot item without a quest to go with it or what. Kelcat (talk) 16:30, January 27, 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes, that's what it is considered (see also the talk page of plot items for a lengthier description). 17:28, January 27, 2014 (UTC)

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Unification_of_Alamarri
Hello Kelcat, Hoping to source your opinion on this article as it's in need of a deciding vote on whether or not it should be deleted. If you'd like to weigh in perhaps. I personally would advocate for deletion, given that it contains no new information and even if you scraped all the what little is available on the unification it still would barely be enough to qualify for a stub article.

P.S For some reason the entire discussion is about whether it should be called it's current title or the unification of ferelden after the first two entries. Personally I don't think that speaks well of it's content. - 13:25, January 27, 2014 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I've been following that conversation but hadn't weighed in yet. I'll take another look at it. Kelcat (talk) 16:06, January 27, 2014 (UTC)

Missing information
http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Articles_to_be_expanded - 05:06, January 28, 2014 (UTC)


 * Sweet! Thank you! Kelcat (talk) 05:09, January 28, 2014 (UTC)


 * Happy to help. It's just nice to see someone working on improving the areas of the wiki which really need some attention.-HD3_Sig.png 05:10, January 28, 2014 (UTC)


 * Yeah, definitely. There's plenty of existing stuff that needs work on. Kelcat (talk) 16:59, January 28, 2014 (UTC)

Heroes of Dragon Age
Hey Kelcat, I see that you've been hard at work on the Heroes of Dragon Age page. There's a great opportunity to work with some brilliant folks here and I'd like to make sure you're included. Could you reach out to me on chat or via the email feature? -- 08:40, February 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * I avoid chat like the plague, but I can't seem to figure out how to get an email to you? Kelcat (talk) 19:17, February 11, 2014 (UTC)

Key (Treasury)
Hey Kelcat, the in-game name of "Key (Treasury)" is simply "Key" right? 12:20, February 27, 2014 (UTC)


 * Yep. As are several others that are going to be added soon. Running out of ways to distinguish them since they all have the same name. Kelcat (talk) 15:38, February 27, 2014 (UTC)

Boss Skills
Wouldn't it be better and cleaner if we put the boss skills on the relevant quest page then since the character articles tend to be more lore focused? Also if we're going to restore it can we at least move the skills out of the way so it doesn't look quite so disruptive, not jammed into the middle of the involvement section like Drell did. -120.149.113.197 (talk) 07:18, March 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * putting them on the quest pages could probably work, and would make as much sense to do so. If you want to change it to that, I don't have a problem with it. Keep in mind that Rendon is a Boss in both Rescue the Queen and Kill the Arl, so they should be listed on both. --Kelcat (talk) 07:27, March 24, 2014 (UTC)

Allright, I'll do that then.


 * Another possibility would be to make strategy pages for all or most of the characters with the Boss rank. Like Cauthrien (strategy) and Loghain Mac Tir (strategy). --Kelcat (talk) 07:43, March 24, 2014 (UTC)


 * i agree with making strategy pages but i disagree with putting this data on quest pages, since some of bosses are encountered more than once and doing this is pointless. - JH EP  -  Talk  -  Contribs  11:29, March 24, 2014 (UTC)


 * I understand your concern, but I think we could avoid that problem pretty easily if we hypothetically did set up a separate strategy page for each boss by doing what was done in the cauthrien strategy page and simply list the second encounter on the same page, even if its in a different quest (again like Cauthrien). It's also probably worth pointing out that recurring bosses are exceptionally rare. For these reasons and more I still believe that the skills data would best be placed on the quest and or strategy page as relevant.-120.149.113.197 (talk) 13:45, March 24, 2014 (UTC)


 * So long as the info's preserved, I'm good with any of it. But it did look pretty jarring to have the stats smack in the middle of the involvement section on the character page. Stragegies for bosses are also something that are seriously lacking for all but a couple. Kelcat (talk) 14:19, March 24, 2014 (UTC)


 * adding strategy pages is the best solution. and btw strategy page of ser cauthrien should be edited in some section i think, because her rank is "elite boss" in first encounter but simple "boss" at the secound encounter as i remember, so her stats such as hit points CAN NOT be same in both encounters - JH EP  -  Talk  -  Contribs  16:58, March 24, 2014 (UTC)

Strategy Pages
I was wondering, do you think it would be better to leave the link to the strategy pages on the character page or the quest page? -120.149.113.197 (talk) 02:22, March 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * I think it'd probably be a good idea to have it on both; I could see someone looking on either type of page in order to find out about strategies on a specific character. --Kelcat (talk) 02:47, March 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * it is best to have both pages linked to strategy page. - JH EP  -  Talk  -  Contribs  09:43, March 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * which is exactly what I said. There's no need for you to answer every question addressed to me on my talk page. --Kelcat (talk) 14:12, March 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * i just confirmed it. what is your problem? i answered because this is one of the pages that i follow and wiki send me an email. - JH EP  -  Talk  -  Contribs  16:14, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

Just Checking In
Hey Kelcat! I just wanted to check in and see how you were doing in these trying times. All editing going well on the wiki I hope! Everything moving smoothly etc etc?- 02:50, April 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * Hey there! Things are a bit more bumpy than smooth, but I suppose that's to be expected at the moment :D Lots of real life stuff has kept me busy, but I'm still plugging away on the wiki here and there. How goes it with you? --Kelcat (talk) 06:09, April 1, 2014 (UTC)


 * Same old, same old. Enjoying my retirement from the wiki. Finishing my degree. They've offered me a new job that I think i'll take. I can't tell you how much of a load off my mind it is to know you're still here keeping an eye on things though. Given some people's (i'm sure you can guess who) impact on the forums and the wiki, it's nice to know to at least one person is maintaining proper standards and keeping things in order for Inqusition. Keep up the good work Kelcat!-HD3_Sig.png 06:17, April 1, 2014 (UTC)


 * Sounds like you’re keeping busy, and congratulations on the job! Thank you for the vote of confidence, that makes me feel really good--especially with all the stuff and drama going on. Seems like all of our frequent contributors are busy with school and/or travel right now, so I’m happy to help contribute where I can. I’m glad it’s appreciated. --Kelcat (talk) 00:06, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

Profane abomination
Hey Kelcat! [ ]'s deletion status has yet to be decided (the discussion is sort of split), so I'm wondering if you were still in favor of deleting the article. There had been some changes since your last comment. 15:08, April 15, 2014 (UTC)


 * I'll take a look at it now! --Kelcat (talk) 23:41, April 15, 2014 (UTC)

An Idea
Hey Kelcat, I wanted to run an idea by you. What do you think about reducing the number of quotes per character articles? I'm trying to decide if it's worth putting it to a wider forum.- 10:25, April 17, 2014 (UTC)


 * I'd definitely be in favor of reducing quotes on articles; there are a lot more books and games out now, so I think the issue is worth revisiting. --Kelcat


 * Ok I'll start writing up a new model and we can discuss it and then decide if it should be posted.-HD3_Sig.png 01:38, April 18, 2014 (UTC)


 * So, here are what I think are the points I think we need to consider regarding the quotes section:


 * A minimum standard of notability for a quotation.

By which I mean, the quote should clearly demonstrate something about the character's personality or beliefs. E.G Anders' header quote “The people fear what we can do, but to use that fear to bludgeon us into submission is wrong! And they do it with our blessing!” works because it's a statement of ideology whereas Alistair's “That's what I'm here for. To deliver unpleasant news and witty one-liners.” works because it speaks more of his personality.


 * Avoid having two quotes which say the same thing.

A good example of this is Loghain. One quote is "How fortunate Maric did not live to see his son ready to hand Ferelden over to those who enslaved us for a century!" which neatly captures his attitude towards Cailan, yet the very next quote "Your fascination with glory and legends will be your undoing, Cailan! We must attend to reality." which again just repeats Loghain's attitude towards Cailan.


 * A reduction in the number of quotes pursuant to the role of the character.

By which I mean an NPC would be reduced to 3 quotes. Companions on the other hand, given the much larger volume of dialogue would be 5 quotes. However if that character appeared in subsequent installments, I.E Wynne appears in DA:O and later in DA:Asunder, we could add an extra quotes per installment.


 * A reduction in the number of dialogue exchanges.

Reduce the number of dialogue exchanges to 1 per character. The dialogue exchanges are huge with each one taking up about 4-5 quotes per exchange. They take up a tonne of space, half the time they contain spoilers and the other half they still don't make any more sense than a standalone quote even with the extra context provided by having the extra dialogue.


 * If a character only has one notable quote, that quote should be put in as a header quote rather than have a quote section dedicated to that single quote.


 * Header quotes should be included in the total number of quotes on a page.

Ok that's what I've come up with so far. What do you think? Especially about the numbers. If you have any comments or thoughts you think should be put in before opening it a wider discussion now is the time. - 07:26, April 19, 2014 (UTC)


 * All this looks really good!


 * The notability of quotes might be kind of subjective, but I think specifying that it should give insight into the character's personality works.
 * The 3 quotes for minor characters and 5 for major looks good (I'm neutral about whether or not to include the header quote in that count). Perhaps for characters in multiple games/books/etc it could be 5 for any installment they play a major role in (such as being a companion) and something like 2 or 3 for minor appearances.
 * Dialogue exchanges: I'm not really in favor of them at all, but if there are any, 1 is plenty. Perhaps limit dialogue exchanges to 3 lines maximum.
 * There's no standard about the header quote having to be different from other quotes in the body of the article; I think specifying that would be good.
 * Keeping quotes short. I think limiting quotes to 1-2 sentences each would be a good idea. If you look at Cullen's page, nearly every quote is practically a paragraph long, and before I cut a few of them out, the secion more or less amounted to all of his dialogue in the game.
 * What do you think about keeping spoilers out of quotes altogether? Using the spoiler tag kind of makes the list of quotes look choppy (like Orsino) and for any character I can think of there are plenty of non-spoilery quotes that could be used just as well to reflect their personality. --Kelcat (talk) 08:43, April 19, 2014 (UTC)


 * Well, I personally would support keeping spoilers out of quotes all together. I can't speak for everyone else though. Suggest it and see what they say I guess.


 * I think specifying the header quote should not be among the quotes included in the quote section and should count towards the total number of quotes is a good idea.


 * Generally trying to keep quotes to 1 or 2 sentences sounds like a sound move.


 * Limiting dialogue exchanges to a maximum number of sentences also sounds good. I think 4 lines would work so two parties can make an original statement and a follow up each.

Anything else? - 09:59, April 19, 2014 (UTC)


 * That's all I can think of at the moment. I say cast it out and see what everyone thinks. --Kelcat (talk) 21:48, April 19, 2014 (UTC)

Quotes Forum Post
Hey Kelcat. For some reason I keep getting a bug when i try to post a new forum topic in the wiki discussion section. I've asked around and it doesn't seem anyone else is having this problem, so I think it's just me. Could I ask you to start a new topic and post this for me. Also if there's anything you think should be included in the opening argument now's the time to mention it.

- 03:05, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

=
The quotations sections of many of our character articles could use a bit of reform. With the current caps and limits, they've become quite unwieldy in terms of page space. Content is also an issue. The quote section is meant to provide just a small handful of choice lines of dialogue which give a cursory outline of a character, not mark out every mildly interesting bit of dialogue they ever uttered. "Maker's breath, kitty. What have you been eating?" is hardly something that's going to offer much insight. We also haven't reached a consensus regarding header quotes and how they relate to the rest of the quotation sections. Given the success of the recent reform of the DA:Trivia guidelines, I thought now would be a good time to open this up to a wider forum. I've discussed this with several of the other regular editors on the wikia and we've drawn up this outline for reforming the quotation section. I've numbered each proposal for the ease of those responding.


 * A 1: minimum standard of notability for a quotation.

By which I mean, the quote should clearly demonstrate something about the character's personality or beliefs. E.G Anders' header quote “The people fear what we can do, but to use that fear to bludgeon us into submission is wrong! And they do it with our blessing!” works because it's a statement of ideology whereas Alistair's “That's what I'm here for. To deliver unpleasant news and witty one-liners.” works because it speaks more of his personality. Just "Does this say something about the character the other quotes don't?" is a good guideline.


 * 2: Avoid having two quotes which say the same thing.

A good example of this is Loghain. One quote is "How fortunate Maric did not live to see his son ready to hand Ferelden over to those who enslaved us for a century!" which neatly captures his attitude towards Cailan, yet the very next quote "Your fascination with glory and legends will be your undoing, Cailan! We must attend to reality." which again just repeats Loghain's attitude towards Cailan.


 * 3: A reduction in the number of quotes pursuant to the role of the character.

By which I mean an NPC would be reduced to 3 quotes. Companions on the other hand, given the much larger volume of dialogue would be 5 quotes. However if that character appeared in subsequent installments, I.E Wynne appears in DA:O and later in DA:Asunder, we could add an extra 2 quotes per installment. Unless of course they play a demonstrably major role in both cases, e.g Companion in more than one game.


 * 4: If a character only has one notable quote, that quote should be put in as a header quote rather than have a quote section dedicated to that single quote.


 * 5:Header quotes should be included in the total number of quotes on a page.


 * 6: Header quotes should not be repeated in the quotation section of the same article.


 * 7: Unless it's a really really good quote, try to keep quotes confined to 1 to 2 sentences.

Cullen's page is a good example of this, nearly every single quote is a paragraph long.


 * 8: A reduction in the number of dialogue exchanges.

Reduce the number of dialogue exchanges to 1 per character. The dialogue exchanges are huge with each one taking up about 4-5 quotes per exchange. They take up a tonne of space, half the time they contain spoilers and the other half they still don't make any more sense than a standalone quote even with the extra context provided by having the extra dialogue.

Using the spoiler tag kind of makes the list of quotes look choppy (like Orsino) and for any character I can think of there are plenty of non-spoiler quotes that could be used just as well to reflect their personality.
 * 9: Keeping spoilers out of quotes altogether.

- 03:06, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

Posted! --Kelcat (talk) 06:00, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

Thank you- 06:01, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

Hey I left a message regarding the proposed quote guidelines. - 08:43, April 24, 2014 (UTC)

Initial Statistics for Companions
Hey Kelcat, I wanted to make you aware of another project we've got going on the wikia which we would very much welcome your help with if you wouldn't mind. We're trying to finally replace all the different styles for the "Initial Statistics" section for all companions and temporary companions in DA:O, DA:O DLC and DA:A with one uniform layout. Mostlyautumn was going to do it for the longest time but that's not going to happen it seems. Anyway, I'm going to start updating the appropriate articles, if you get a chance to help impliment the new layout on some articles that would be greatly appreciated, i'm terrible with this sort of stuff. I've copied you in from the discussion below:


 * I have enforced this change here. You or anyone else can copy the coding of that page and apply it to any other companion page. The only difference is that in the other pages you'll remove for example "Dirty Fighting" and add "Winter's Grasp" and replace the respective icon. Kelcat is one of the people I can think that they are able to do that.


 * However, in pages which already have a TOC (table of content), then you should not use the extension as this would remove the TOC they already had. Imagine Morrigan's page which is massive, not having that table which allows easy browsing.  08:44, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

- 08:54, April 20, 2014 (UTC)


 * Sure, I can help, but it looks like mostlyautumn's already taken care of most of it? --Kelcat (talk) 04:12, April 23, 2014 (UTC)


 * Yeah Autumn came through, but there's still plenty of companion articles which need the new layout and some of the ones which have the new layout don't have the table for equipment. They should all have one like Leske not missing one like Jowan.

- 04:57, April 23, 2014 (UTC)


 * Easy enough; I'll see what I can do! --Kelcat (talk) 04:50, April 24, 2014 (UTC)

Quote Guidelines Roll out
Hi Kelcat. I know we haven't settled on exact numbers yet but we seem to have broadly reached an agreement on standards of notability etc. If the new guidelines get adopted (as hopefully it looks like they will), we'll have a lot of character articles that will need some clean up. I hope I can count on your help for this, when you can. We need someone who'll evaluate each quote on its own merits and as part of the whole section and article.- 03:24, April 25, 2014 (UTC)


 * Absolutely. I've got my edit-machete sharp and ready to go ;D --Kelcat (talk) 03:49, April 25, 2014 (UTC)

Drell's new experiment
Drell's running some new scheme to put every companion dialogue on location articles. I personally remain opposed to the idea, partly because I think it'll never be completed knowing this place, the huge number of location articles and also because I prefer a certain degree of uniform blueprint design across articles and I don't think this will help that. There's a bunch of other reasons of course but I thought you might want to voice an opinion. http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Party_reactions_on_places_in_DAO?t=20140425161956 - 02:03, April 26, 2014 (UTC)


 * Oh, right, I meant to leave a comment on that earlier. --Kelcat (talk) 02:48, April 26, 2014 (UTC)