Talk:Alistair

Layout with Box?
Is it just me, or is Alistair's character box now weirdly squished? Loleil 10:13, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

It is. I'm not sure what to do about it though... DarkSpecie 10:57, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I did some retooling that seems to have fixed the problem. The image of Alistair is a bit large now, but I kind of like it! Plus, the page reflows well enough that it really doesn't look that bad. Even at lower resolutions. -- Xavier Grimwand on Friday, June 5, 2009 @ 10:10 am (ET)

That entry about him being a romance option felt good, I bet. Right, Selty? :-) MyNickIsTakenSoIUseThisOne 20:09, 10 June 2009 (UTC) -- Alexander

... :) yeeeessss--122.111.31.58 21:36, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't know how to edit the box, so figured I'd just ask - would it be possible (or more appropriate) to link Steve Valentine's actual website rather than his IMDB page? It's http://www.stevevalentine.com/ --Fritti Tailchaser 15:04, December 10, 2009 (UTC)

Quote
Where is the, "death" one from, for that matter!? Is David Gaider secretly coming on this site to sneak quotes in? --Selty 07:04, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe 173.34.202.195's comment about Cori May's signature provides the answer. So sadly it's probably not David Gaider. But on the other hand, they are anonymous, so you never know... Loleil 07:48, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

173.34.202.195 03:36, 8 August 2009 (UTC) No, sorry, I'm not Mr. Gaider. ;) Though if you look for Cori's posts on the forum, I believe the signature's still the same.

Spoiler
Just a heads up for when we can get a confirmation, I am almost 100 percent sure that Alistair is the son of Fiona and Maric, and therefore an heir to the throne. There is a screenshot of him in the royal golden armour. (Can't find the link, but it's from the same site as Zevran's screenshot that confirms his preference) --Selty 02:05, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * NOOOOOOOOOOOO why don't I ever listen when they say 'spoiler'?! You couldn't mean this, right? http://www.ag.ru/screenshots/dragon_age_origins/313507#show

It's the 81st picture, in case anyone cares to know. I'm pretty sure that's Alistair, anyway. And this: http://www.ag.ru/screenshots/dragon_age_origins/313464#show Alright, that's definitely him. That's the 80th. Well, since we don't know the context we can't be sure... HelterSkelter 16:51, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

No. It's confirmed. Sorry guys I was as upset as being spoiled as you are. In any case, it is one ending you can get.--Selty 01:59, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

Xander?
Why is Maric listed as Xander? Is there something I'm missing? I don't recall Maric ever being referred to as Xander. Cynnamin 19:39, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

I believe it was used to shield spoilers for the time being before I put up the template. --Selty 20:36, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

Alistair and Mages
"Making another character fill the tanking roll is usually advisable if the player character is using magic or ranged damage.", is this a correct fact? If so, what is the reason for this? -- Snfonseka 11:10, November 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't see that text in the article, so it must have already been removed. -- 20:57, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

Someone please clarify before I edit
"Alistair was not Eamon's son, but King Maric's. Maric sheltered the boy to hide his existence from Queen Rowan, Maric's wife, despite his feeling of glory, by advice of his friend Loghain Mac Tir. His father was the last King of Ferelden making him the true heir to the throne before his half-brother King Calian. "

Can anyone clarify exactly what this paragraph is trying to say? What does it mean by 'despite his feeling of glory'? What glory? Over the birth of a bastard son? If it's unrelated to Alister, why is it even mentioned?

And why is Alister heir before Cailan? Even if he was older-- which he is not-- Cailan is the legitimate son. Alister is heir before Queen Anora, yes, but certainly not Cailan.

I am about to go over that introduction paragraph with an axe, so if you wrote any of those sections, please clarify your meaning or it may vanish mysteriously.

--Lilkam 10:07, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

Feelings of glory, my guess would be putting your legitimate son on the throne, despite the fact that Alistair may be an older brother. Legitimate or not, Alistair is the kings first son and therefore the first heir. Which is why if you accept Morrigan's deal after supporting Alistair as king, and try to talk Alistair into it, he will worry about his bastard child ever attempting to claim the throne considering he doesn't trust Morrigan. Hope this helps. --MiyuEmi 10:14, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * Feelings of glory because he put his legitimate son on the throne? Perhaps my understanding of the word "glory" is different from everyone else? It still doesn't make much sense.


 * You've raised the issue that Alister is in fact older than Cailin. However, I do not ever recall Alister ever saying he was the elder. In fact, I've always thought Alister was the younger brother, from appearance and attitude. It is, of course possible that he is indeed the elder, but if so, I would like to see a source. Is it from the books? Something the writers wrote on a forum? What makes you believe Alister is older and this isn't just interpolation? If it's purely speculation on both sides, we should keep that vague until it has been proven either way.


 * Legitimacy is a big issue for the throne. The legitimate heir is the first heir, that is definite. Illegitimate elder sons are grey areas: and great fodder for rebellions, which is why Alister would worry since his true heir would not be the eldest and therefore in danger from opportunists. But his legitimate heir is the true heir. Alister is definitely NOT before Cailin.


 * --Lilkam 06:33, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

It is possible that Alister was born before Cailin. The oppisite could also be true. with out a definite source it will be next to impossible to tell who was actually born first and who was born second. -- KageZX 23:31, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

About Alistair and Cailin... The only clue about their age difference I could find that suggests Alistair might be older is in one of those random conversations with other party members. Between Alistair and Whynn or Leliana (I don't remember which one). In short - let's say Whynn asks Alistair if he had a relationship with his brother and he says that he only met him once, while he was still in Redcliff, and Alistair said to him something like: Hello, your majesty.. and Cailin said: Wow, swords! (or something like that) and ran off. So, in that case, it could be, that Cailin was a little boy, easily distracted with shinny weapons, and Alistair was in fact few years older. But you never know with those two, because let's face it, they are both pretty childish. :)

The conversation is between Alistair and Wynne. --Vehlr 17:17, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

According to the timelines in the two novels, Stolen Throne and The Calling, Cailin is the elder brother (having been revealed in the epilogue of the first novel as Maric's only son). The second novel produces a second son. Jaggedbubbles 10:22, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

Just so it's been said, the "feeling of glory" should obviously be changed to "sense of honor" or something along those lines. 84.208.208.230 00:45, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

Alistair Concept Art -
I am dubious about that concept art. It isn't shown in my collector's edition art book as being Alistair - it's shown as a random 'warrior' /pc model.

Alistair's only illustration is a screen shot on Alistair's page.All the other characters have an illustration on their page except him, in fact.


 * It's on the official website, under his character page. That's him, alright. 71.164.115.214 19:15, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

Hardening Personality
Right can someone explain this to me?, I'm curious as to how one hardens Alistair's personality is this through dialogue that would make you lose approval or can you still gain from it? because I've seen nothing that would suggest he'll walk away feeling improved? less-manly? Zf6hellion 02:29, December 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * Essentially after you go talk to Goldana with him, you have the option to tell him that "Everyone looks out for themselves. You should learn that." and he'll agree, then not want to talk right away. If you go talk to him later, essentially if you say anything but "That's not what I meant. Don't do that!" his personality will be hardened. It doesn't change him much, but he'll be more accepting of becoming King, and allow him to accept a threesome with Isabella. --Emynii 02:56, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

Right... now I have to go and try that... and it's not what you think! (sort of) Zf6hellion 03:09, December 5, 2009 (UTC)


 * Is it possible to spare Loghain and have Alistair become the king after hardening his personality? Has anyone been able to achieve this? Johnnyriot999 04:17, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * It is. After hardening his personality I was able to persuade him to marry Anora and become king, but he always leaves the party if Loghain is allowed to live. Loleil 04:23, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

I've replaced the word alter with harden regarding Alistair's personality change at the end of his personal quest. In fact, "harden" and "hardening" are in such common use throughout this wiki, especially in the epilogue, that the term very badly needs its own subsection that can be hotlinked from all those other pages. --Phiont 12:56, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

Issue with continuity? Anora as queen but Alistair referenced as king?
I placed Anora on the throne without anyone ruling with her. Yet in every dialogue afterwords Alistair continues to speak as though I nominated him to be king. He insisted on slaying the archdemon because as king it was his responsibilities. This has happened before in previous runthroughs. Is this a known bug or just something with my game?--Emynii 01:54, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * I hope it's a known bug and they fix it soon, because the same thing happened to me! Loleil 05:00, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, as much as it stinks for that issue, I'm glad other people are having it. I was worried I had some corrupted game files :/--Emynii 05:26, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

There is currently a mod available on the bioware social site for the PC that addresses some of the continuity issues with Alistair being referenced as king after Landsmeet when he hasn't been nominated for the kingship. I believe it's called Alistair Dialog Patch, or something similar. It can be found under the Projects. I personally haven't finished a game yet with it installed, but so far seems very well done.Pvpgirl 10:05, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Alistair Family relations
--Here Lay Spoilers-- I have read both books that are pre DA:O. From my understanding, Alistair is born at the end of the 2nd book (The Calling) at which point in time Cailan is already 9 years old. Also, despite the fact that during the game they repeatedly said his mother was a servant at Arl Eamon's castle, you find out differently in the book. His mother was a Grey Warden Elf Mage named Fiona, his father was indeed King Maric. At the end of The Calling, Fiona asks Maric to raise him as a normal human, away from royalty. She wished for him to have a happy life, uncomplicated by the whole Grey Warden/Elf/King parentage. At this point in time, Queen Rowan had already been dead for a few years. It is most likely that the servant girl mother was made up to hide his mother's true identity from him. I'm not saying that Goldanna's mother didn't die at Eamon's castle in child birth, just that it was convenient for a cover story for Alistair to be told. Fiona is possably still alive at Grey Warden headquarters, since it thought that her..experiences..in The Calling might prevent her from having to go through it again. Also, Duncan knew who Alistair's parents were. Had, in fact, traveled with them in The Calling. He promised the 2 of them that he would 'watch over' the baby and bring them news about it when he could. It most likely that he purposely conscripted Alistair to get him away from the Chantry as part of his 'watching over' duties.

This is of course all assuming that the baby in the last few pages of The Calling is indeed Alistair. If it is not, then there is yet another brother out there somewhere. 129.198.241.62 08:07, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

Well someone would have to pry answers from BioWare then eh? heh heh, but as far as this goes it does make me curious for an answer to this case, a third sibling would be rather funny (well to me) or his mother being Fiona would cast some nice lights in the dark if you know what I mean - regardless unless there's a Q&A sometime soon we'll have to look to Dragon Age 2's release for more details.

I had thought of this as well. If so, then Goldanna's claim that the baby died in childbirth with her mother was true and Alistair was not actually her brother. He never says where that information came from. The secret would have died with Duncan since any other character that would have known doesn't exist in the game.--Cynicalitalian 14:54, December 29, 2009 (UTC)

Arl Eamon? Bann Teigan? Shouldn't they know whose child it was that lived in their castle for 10 years? What could be the purpose of slandering Maric as an adulterer, when Rowan was already dead when Alistair was born? --84.156.91.214 23:28, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

I sort of asumed Alistair thought that his mother was a servent girl, when Fiona was the actual mother. Coroxn 16:32, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

The issue isn't who his father was. It was Maric. Maric was an adulterer. In a sense. (My personal opinion, not trying to start any fights. Even if Rowan was dead at time of conception, it's not like he had moved on in a marriage.) As Coroxn pointed out, Alistair thought his mother was a servant girl. It quite possable that Maric either a. didn't tell Teigan and Eamon who the mother was, or b. swore them to secrecy if he did tell them. For all we know, Fiona herself (if she's still alive) is the only one who knows the truth. Although, she may not know what became of her child if Duncan didn't fill her in on her child's name/location. If she is, I can't imagine that she's to happy about her child (if it's Alistair) being damned by his blood into having exactly the life she didn't want for him.

Pvpgirl 13:39, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

This paragraph doesn't make much sense to me:

"It is also a great possibility that the child is not Alistair, as Alistair's half sister Goldanna, who shares his same mother, was also human in appearance. Since Fiona was an elf, this would mean that Goldanna's father was also a human. Goldanna blames Alistair for her mother's death, implying that her mother died in childbirth, which Fiona clearly did not. Furthermore, upon asking Loghain why Maric did not recognize Alistair, he claims it was for "Rowan's honor," which would mean that Alistair was born before Rowan died, something that Fiona's child was not, making it a strong possibility that the child of Maric and Fiona is Alistair's younger half-sibling. "

This theory does not take into account that Fiona was a Mage Grey Warden, not a serving girl in the castle (huge difference in rank, even being an elf and a mage). As such, she was obviously not Goldanna's mother. What's more likely is that the serving girl died in childbirth with another child and Alistair was passed off as that child. Goldanna says that they told her the baby died (which it likely did), providing an easy excuse for Alistair's appearance. As to Rowan's honor, you can still honor the memory of someone who has passed on. It's not proof that Alistair was born before Rowan died. Vavasor 17:38, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Am I the only one in favour of dropping the Fiona bit from the article altogether? I mean, I do believe Fiona was Alistair's mother but it is just speculation on my part. Moreover, the speculation also depends on knowing Maric's personality, which you only gather from the books. The books makes it clear that Maric didn't go around chasing skirt. In fact, Rowan makes a point of emphasising that in The Stolen Throne. So the "Alistair's mother couldn't be some serving girl" is dependent on a number of things and it is not negated by the fact that Alistair "thinks" Goldanna is his sister. But the problem remains that it is just speculation. So maybe it would be better to just drop it. Tinni  (Talk)  18:00, April 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, the speculation that Alistair is Fiona's son is very sound. Fiona wanted Maric to make sure that her child would be raised as a child of pure human origin. When Alistair meets Goldanna in Denerim, Goldanna claims that she had been told Alistair was dead. It is very likely that either Maric or Arl Eamon, acting at Maric's behest picked a human maid who recently died in childbirth to create an 'origin story' for Alistair, giving him the identity of the child who died with his mother. Why did Loghain say that Maric's refused to recognize Alistair for "Rowan's honor"? In Dragon Age: The Calling Fiona made it clear that she wanted Maric not to tell the child anything about his parents. ("Tell him nothing. Let him think his mother human, and dead"). On the last page, Maric contemplates the implications of recognizing the child: "If he recognized the boy and raised him in the palace, he would be subject to constant politics and struggles. He would be seen as competition for Cailan." (Quoted from 'Dragon Age: The Calling'). Maric knew that Loghain loved Rowan, and instead of presenting some convoluted political reasoning to him, he probably drove his point home by appealing to Loghain's feelings for Rowan. There is one more argument that augments even more the likelihood of Alistair's being Fiona's child. On the same page, Duncan offers to watch over the child, and bring news to Maric from time to time, and it fits in nicely with the fact that, in Alistair's words, Duncan was always protective of him, even to the point of keeping him away from the battle at Ostagar by sending him (and the player) on what seemed to be then a fairly straightforward mission (lighting the beacon). Desyndra 08:19, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am not arguing the theory is sound. I just think they way it is presented in the article is just stupid. It mentions the Fiona theory and the non-Fiona theory and it just... that's why I am saying let's just drop it and go with "Alistair things his mother was a human maid and the Goldanna is his half-sister". Tinni   (Talk)  16:40, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

Haven't read any of the books (yet) but would just like to say that Alastair is very large for a possible part-elf. ..


 * Elvish blood is recessive in Dragon Age. Meaning that half-elves are completely human. In the book Fiona hands Maric a completely human baby and explains that if humans and elves interbreed too much then elves would simply die out. In short, Alistair's physical appearance is no indication of his mother's race. Tinni   (Talk)  14:08, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, Tinni, that would explain a lot. It is just that elves are the size of children and I find it very distasteful to think of human/elven bonding - unless there is a huge difference in anatomy there would be a lot of pain for the female elf. I usually play as an elf and have only romanced Alastair when playing as a human. Also, recessive blood does not make a half-elf completely human - it merely gives them the appearance of being human. The idea of human and elves interbreeding and the elves dying out is also, I think, incorrect. With recessive genes, two parents with the elven recessive gene would produce an elf not a human. Zevran&#39;s girl 10:04, April 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Are we talking about Dragon Age or some other fantasy world? Last I looked, elves were not the size of children in Dragon Age. So really, what rubbish are you sprouting! In addition, my information comes "The Calling". It is therefore, lore of Dragon Age as established by the books. And in the book an elf explains that elf + human = human! Tinni   (Talk)  16:40, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

OK, so I exaggerated when I said elves were the size of children, but they are still smaller with lighter bone structure than humans. However, my genetic knowledge is not rubbish, so I am actually correct when I say that human/elf mating would not make the elves die out - it could actually lead to an increase in the elven population. Unless, of course, it resulted in the offspring being "mules" and thus unable to reproduce. Is this what was meant? That is, however, not the same as recessive. But recessive genes in genetics is fact and does not belong to any fantasy world lore (even if it sounds as though it should). Zevran&#39;s girl 14:09, April 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * This is not a genetics discussion. It is a lore discussion. I am telling you what it says in "The Calling". You have a problem with it, take it up with David Gaiden and tell him he's genetics knowledge sucks. I quote,

Maric: "He's human!" (referring to his baby by Fiona, an elven mage of Orlais"

Fiona: "That's why we stay together in the alienages, mostly. The children of humans and elves are human. If we interbred, we would die out."

The above conversation is in the "The Calling" page 442, so you can look it up for yourself. Also you didn't exaggerate, you down right got it wrong! Elves and humans are physically largely proportional. Size of children? Dwarves are the size of children! Elves are by an large proportional to humans and there is zero evidence that sexual intercourse between them causes discomfort to elven women. Just admit that you are wrong and don't know what you are talking about and move on. This discussion is getting tiresome since you aren't arguing Dragon Age lore but based on your pre-conceived notions on the topic. Well, official Dragon Age lore as established by the head writer of Bioware says elf + human = humans, and human and elves interbreeding will lead to elves dying out. Accept it or go complain to David Gaiden. Tinni  (Talk)  16:16, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

Fanclub links
There are a bunch of links to fanclubs at the bottom of the article. I don't really think they are appropriate. Should we delete them?--Selty 01:22, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe instead of the current section we make one for fan run websites. I don't see how letting others know about fansites is taking away from the integrity of the site. Any site with "adult content" is met with a warning right away and everything I saw was under cuts to prevent any sort of missconduct. If neccicary, I say a warning that wiki has no control over the content of these fansites and that users visit them at their own discresion should be supplied. --Emynii 01:31, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think links to fanclub is inappropriate. Wikipedia lets high profile user generated sites to link from articles. As long as the fanclubs "major" then I'm all for it. --Tierrie 01:55, December 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Alright, then. I wasn't worried about the adult content, just of a whole lot of the same sites being linked. Never mind, then.--Selty 02:00, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * We'll put a warning that some of the sites may contain content of a sensitive nature. --Emynii 02:02, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

Alistair has something against Dwarves?
On my current play through, I'm playing a female dwarf noble. I so totally adore Alistair that I just can't help romancing him regardless of what I'm playing. Much to my dismay, this time after the 'tent' action, instead of confessing his love me, he simply said 'thank you'. (cry) All response options were the same, he had already given me a rose and was at 100 approval raiting. Is this just a thing against dwarfs, or did I jump the gun a bit? I have already recruited Wynne, Zevran, and Oghren, but haven't done the Ashes quest yet to save Eamon or the quest to see Goldanna (I so don't want to 'harden' him. Nooo must keep the goofy lovable Alistair!) Anyone else notice this on a dwarf, or have I not advanced in overall plot enough yet? Thanks!

Pvpgirl 10:32, December 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * I've always gotten the overly romantic Alistair, it's part of his charm), though admittedly I almost always romance Zevran. Have you given him his mother's Amulet yet? I usually never get down to tent business until I've gotten at least one of the major plot gifts for the companion I'm romancing and things work out really well. I don't know if the game keeps track of things like this prior to romance, but you know this already so sorry, I know that this is a major flirtation point for him as you're able to tell him you remembered because he's special to you. You'd best harden him though or Alistair will leave you if you support him for King. Unless you plan on supporting Anora. --MiyuEmi 11:37, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I've given him the amulet. I'm just really confused over the whole 'Thank you, I didn't know I could feel that way' vs the 'Did I tell you that I love you? I did, well it won't hurt you to hear it again'. Just wondering if it has something to do with being a dwarf or if I need to save Eamon before he'll 'love' me after visiting my tent. Pvpgirl 11:44, December 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * Huh. I wonder if he does. Odd since all hints to his mother being a serving girl in the castle make it seem as though his own mother is an elf. Who knows. That would be a shame though. I usually romance him as a human noble, so I'll see if it's the same for me as for you now as an elven mage. I wonder if it's just an I know I can't marry you if I become king thing. Did he make his confession to you that's he's an heir? --MiyuEmi 11:51, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, he has. When I played through as an elf (twice, once as a mage, once as a warrior) he still 'I love you' line after 'tenting' him. That's why I'm wondering if it's just dwarves he has something against? Pvpgirl 11:57, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

He will only tell you he loves you if you have visited his sister and he's in love when he finally goes to your tent.

You have to have completed his personal quest for him and have a very high approval rating with him for Alistair to tell you he loves you. A good way to know if he will say it or not once you adjourn to his tent is to complete the scene with Goldanna. After he talks to you outside of her house, talk to him again. He will thank you for taking him to see his sister. If he tells you he loves you then, he'll tell you again after going to his tent. If he merely says that you are a true friend, he will say the bit about no one ever making him feel this way. I have played as a dwarf, and he did tell my character he loved her. Hope this helps. Lyricangell 19:25, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for the help. It was the fact that I hadn't taken him to see Goldanna yet that was holding him back. Grrr...darn not-sister sisters anyway! Pvpgirl 07:38, December 26, 2009 (UTC)

Well i have to say that he has nothing against dwarves because he has told my female dwarf on 2 separate occasions that he loved her. The 1st occasion was in the magi tower and the 2nd occasion was right after inviting him to my tent. I should also note i'm using a character relationship converstation guide so that's what has helped me. Oh also did not do his side quest yet so you do not have to complete that to get him to say i love you just fyi Leaza 10:20, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Impossible outcome?
"If Loghain is conscripted into the Grey Wardens, Alistair leaves Ferelden and becomes a wandering drunkard. (Unless of course you harden his personality during his personal quest, and then subsequently convince him and Anora to marry - in which case he will still choose to become King but will no longer directly support you in your efforts against the Blight.)"

I spent a lot of time trying to get loghain to live and convince the two to marry, but it looks like alistair always leaves if loghain is spared. Has anyone gotten Anora and Alistair on the throne AND let loghain survive the landsmeet and if so how? --71.112.18.247 15:35, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

Alistair's personality must be hardened by doing his personal quest(right after you exit Goldanna's house tell him that everyone is out for themselves). You must also convince Anora to marry him when you get to talk to her in Eamon's estate. Also make sure NOT to let him duel Loghain at the Landsmeet because he will kill him. BeerMage 21:24, December 22, 2009 (UTC)

Confused
"Maric sheltered the boy to hide his existence from Queen Rowan, Maric's wife, on the advice of his friend Loghain Mac Tir."

This is impossible, as Maric didn't even meet Alistair's mother until after Rowan's death. Also, Cailan is alive before they met as well, so Alistair is definitely younger than him. This is all in "The Calling".

I agree. This is the only part that has me not entirely sure that Fiona is Alistair's mother. Alistair's codex in the game says "Maric sheltered the boy to hide his existence from Queen Rowan, Maric's wife, on the advice of his friend Loghain Mac Tir." But in 'The Calling' Rowan was already dead, and had been for years, when Fiona gave birth to her son. I don't know if this was just a simple mistake or if there's a possible explanation I haven't thought of yet. Or if Alistair simply is not Fiona's son, though I really think he's supposed to be the son mentioned at the end of the book. Any one else have any thoughts? Lyricangell 19:08, December 23, 2009 (UTC)lyricangell
 * Word of God has it that the Codex can be wrong--it is what your character perceives to be true, not what is necessarily the fact. I'll also point out that Loghain relationship with Maric was strained at this point in time--he may have not told Loghain he sired a bastard with an elven Grey Warden mage. 71.164.125.73 19:42, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

That is very true, perception is reality, or so the saying goes. But if this is the case, wouldn't that mean that Alistair is unaware of how old he really is? Surely he knows when the queen of Ferelden passed on, and if he thinks he was born before she died, but was really born after... Anyway the only other issue I have is that if Fiona is Alistair's mother, it would put Alistair in the age range of 15 to 18, give or take. I know that in the setting of this game, people are a lot younger when they take on 'adult' responsibilities, and I can see Alistair possibly being 18, but younger than that? I don't know. I honestly would have pegged him as being in his early to mid-twenties, myself... Regardless, thanks to whoever it was that responded so quickly! Lyricangell 19:54, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

It's doubtful that Alistair is meant to be any younger than mid-twenties, as you can tease him about still being a virgin "and you are how old?" and he replies something back about never having the opportunity between the chantry and the grey wardens. If he was 16 it would hardly be a joke that he had never had sex. If there is supposed to be 9 years between Cailin and Alistair I would say possibly 33 and 24, but not much younger. I think it's more likely that there is some discrepancy between the books and the game. It may be valuable for this wiki to differentiate between lore in the game and lore in the novels. Time4Tiddy 21:25, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, Tiddy! And I'm also with you on Alistair being around 24, that's exactly the general age I pictured him as... Lyricangell 05:20, December 24, 2009 (UTC)lyricangell

I'm not so sure about that. Considering that the battle at River Dane took place right around Dragon year 0 (it had just been named) and Cailin had obviously not been born yet at that point in time, if Alistair is the child at the end of 'The Calling', that would put Cailin at 9 years old minimum (I say minimum because Cailin was already 9 at the begining of the book, most likely 10 when the child is born due to length of pregnancy) before he was born and the game starts Dragon year 30, that would put Alistair at most 20 years old. (I'm really tired right now and can't recall where I saw the time line placing the game at Dragon year 30, but will update/edit when I'm more awake and have found it again.) Pvpgirl 07:30, December 26, 2009 (UTC)

I'm putting the age range where I am because the Orlesian empire was finally run out of Fereldon 30 years before the game. And the book 'The Calling' takes place 14 years after the Orlesians were beat. And Fiona's babe was born nearly a year after... Lyricangell 16:01, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

All those inconsistencies base on the assumption that Alistair is Fiona's child, and Maric was faithful to Rowan. Cailan is 26. If Alistair's mother was a distraction while Rowan was pregnant, he would be about a year younger than Cailan, and everything ingame would fit perfectly.--84.156.126.159 12:47, December 30, 2009 (UTC)

True. But that would mean that 1. Maric was a ... lamppost licker. And 2. that there was another brother out there somewhere with very similar circumstances to Alistair. (dead "human" mother, king father, raised away from everyone, Duncan knew about him.) On the one hand that would make this truely twisted and soap opra-y. On the other, yes it would clear up the dates/age confusion. I just think it's a little to coincidental for there to be a 3rd son of Maric. Pvpgirl 12:34, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

Well, Fiona's child is 16 yars old now. The comments from female PC and Leliana on Alistair's experience in lamppost licking wouldn't make much sense if he actually were expected to be an inexperienced teenager.--84.156.125.200 12:50, January 4, 2010 (UTC)

Oh,I don't know.Some people are naturally talented. ;)

According to what are you basing Alistair's experience..or lack of..on him being over 16? Todays American standard? News for you, I know 16 year olds that already have children. Tidbit - Marriagable age for children in the Islam religion is 9 for girls, 15 for boys. Judaism - 12 for girls, 13 for boys. Scotland - 16 for both. And this is present day. I hesitate to wonder what age sex/marriages started happening in earlier centuries. Back to the point. Being 16 does not automatically make you innocent or a virgin. Also, if you are to believe Alistair, he's been in the Chantry's care for such a long time, and hasn't had the opportunity to lick many lampposts anyway. Pvpgirl 05:04, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

Just because I've recently been checking this, I'll throw in that whilst 'The Calling' takes place 14 years after Maric et al went into the Deep Roads, it's 11 years after the Orlesians are finally beaten (these are both confirmed in the early chapters of Dragon Age: The Calling). Taking River Dane in 8:99 as the end of the occupation (I think 8:99 has been confirmed by David Gaider but don't have the ref, sorry), this puts the action of The Calling at around 9:10 Dragon, which gels with the ingame info that the Grey Wardens were allowed back into Ferelden by Maric 20 years ago (before the "present" day of around 9:30). This would make Fiona & Maric's son - whoever he is - 19/20-ish at the start of Dragon Age: Origins. Zoev 14:46, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

It's a bit beside the point, but how did lamp post licking emerge as a euphemism for oral sex? Alistair's line, "Have you ever licked a lamp post in winter?" refers to the fact that if you lick frozen metal your tongue will stick to it. It's not a sly way of asking the female Warden if she's a virgin. Alfaerin 15:10, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

I think that sometimes its the way something that is said that makes it a euphemism rather than the words themselves. That scene had me laughing so hard. Quietscribe 15:12, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

I highly doubt Alistair meant it that way. He knew very well the female Warden was trying to talk about sex and so he deflected the question with humor to hide his nervousness. As he says, he's never before had the "pleasure." Alfaerin 14:47, January 16, 2010 (UTC)

It should be said that if you talk to Loghain about Alistair he will say that Rowan was still alive when Alistair was born and that this was the only reason he didn't officially recognize Alistair as his son. Considering Loghain was walking to his death and both Maric and Rowan were long dead, I doubt he'd lie.84.208.208.230 00:45, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

Interesting. I have not whitnessed this conversation with Loghain, but then again I can barely stand the man so have only recruited him to get the achievment. If this is true, we either have a continuity issue or a 3rd son. Soap Opera anyone?Pvpgirl 13:11, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

Speculating on Alistair's Parents
I've had to remove speculation on Alistair's mother a couple of time so I want to make it clear why. If you wanted to argue that Fiona is Alistair's mother you could make a compelling case, however you could not prove it. There is no hard evidence and the developers have been deliberately vague. I too think that it is likely, but it is speculation. So, until there is a definitive answer it does not belong on the page. Loleil 08:09, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree there's no place for speculation, but I've just spotted another edit putting in the claim that Fiona is Alistair's mother. Perhaps it's worth at least noting that Fiona and Maric do have a son on this page, and that it's not impossible that it's Alistair. May stop edits from folk who don't realise that this has already been done to death? I've made some changes to the edit I noticed making the over-bold claim that Dragon Age: The Calling says Fiona is Alistair's mother but have left some info in. Please revert away if you think even this is too much. --Zoev 19:29, January 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I actually like the edit you've made Zoev, positioning it as a viable alternate theory rather than THE TRUTH seems to the best way to go as the other alternatives at this point seem to be waging a never ending revert war or locking the page, which would be a shame. Loleil 23:34, January 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but I already think I may have been wrong! I notice that someone has now added the text "Fiona being his mother would also explain Alistair's fascination with magic, his mother being a mage." to what I'd put in. Now in my view, whilst it might make his fascination with magic poignant, it's hard to see how it could explain it. I've left the text as I don't want to get embroiled in that revert war you mentioned, but I now suspect that having even a snippet of text on this subject will just natrally lead people to speculate further. I formally throw in the towel on this one and leave it to the admin experts! --Zoev 12:12, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

Alasdair marriage non-hardened
I was wondering if anyone else other than myself has had problems getting married to Anora when not hardened on the PS3. I tried as many ways I could think of to get him to marry Anora. He agreed to it before we went to the Landsmeet, but when there they refused consistantly. He was very 'NO' to letting Logain live, and his attitude meant that Anora refused to marry someone as pig-headed and childish as him in his attitude, perhaps because it reminded her too much of her previous husband, or because she feared she would not be able to control his decisions as much as she had the last husband. But yeah, I was unable to get them to agree no matter what I did. If I went with Alistair's decision to kill Logain, even if I did it myself, they refuse to marry. How did others get them to marry if Alasdair is unhardened? I had a full coercion rating. --Quietscribe 00:17, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

I don't believe it's possible to have them marry if Alistair isn't hardened. Alfaerin 14:58, January 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * On the PC version (with patch 1.02) I had no trouble in making Anora and Alistair marry. It might be the patches, the Coercion skill, or who strikes the blow that determines the outcome (I also don't really know what's the difference between hardened and unhardened - so I might be missing something). --silverstrike 15:26, January 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * "Hardening" characters changes their responses to certain events, and is done during their personal quests by selecting a particular conversation choice afterwards. In general, it makes the character's morals more flexible and pragmatic. Whether Alistair is hardened or not plays a large role in how he'll react in the Landsmeet. Alfaerin 16:01, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * You can't suggest letting Loghain live. And it needs to be you who slices off his head. Then Alistair will agree to letting Anora marry him--oh, and I think you need to suggest the marriage beforehand to Anora and have Alistair agree. 71.164.115.214 19:19, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * You can't suggest letting Loghain live. And it needs to be you who slices off his head. Then Alistair will agree to letting Anora marry him--oh, and I think you need to suggest the marriage beforehand to Anora and have Alistair agree. 71.164.115.214 19:19, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

I had no problems getting him to marry Anora, unhardened on the PS3. As stated above, don't even consider letting Loghain live and make sure you bring up the idea to them both beforehand. Don't let Alistair give the killing blow, or she will decline. Be warned, if you are in a romance with Alistair, he will break it off with you after the Landsmeet.Pvpgirl 13:45, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

IS THERE A PATCH/CODE THAT MAKES ALISTAIR "HARDENED"?
Unfortunatelly I was playing "DAO" without reading this forum and here I am (in trouble:))

Could You tell me if there is a possibility to make Alistair "hardened" long after endig his personal quest?

I mean to go back to his personal quest, change my choices but NOT loose all the game progress I've made since then.

A cheat o code perhaps?

For PC, there is a mod on dragon age nexus called metagame items. It includes a 'gift' you can give to anyone to trigger them as being hardened.Pvpgirl 12:06, April 5, 2010 (UTC)

Hardening
The line that hardens Alistair is "No you have to do as I say" -> "I don't have to do it, I want to. What you said made sense. I should have done this a long time ago." or "No, you understood just fine."/"Its about time I say"/"So long as you listen to me, it sounds fine." -> "Then from this point on, I'll be looking out for myself more. I should have done this a long time ago." -- 08:03, February 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Not true. All you need to say is "Everyone is out for themselves. You need to learn that." You can say just about anything after that, so long as you don't go "No, that's not what I meant!" when he says he wants to look out for himself. The dialog right after Goldanna's should indicate whether you successfully "hardened" him. HelterSkelter 23:06, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

Romance question
My female noble has a relation with Alistair and I've hardened him but I really don't want him to marry Anora so can he still stay with my warden so is there a way to keep him in my party and with my girl? Sencilia 09:42, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

Uh yes, with high enough persuasion you can persuade him to be king, persuade the council that you will rule beside him, and by executing Loghain and convincing him to be a part of morrigans ritual (he won't like that but you have hardened him somewhat) you insure you both survive and remain together. An alternate path would be to allow Anora to be queen and again perform the ritual with morrigan. Lufos 09:55, February 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much Sencilia 10:16, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

Why is Anora allowed to live after the defeat of the Arch Demon?
My warden and Alistair have a relationship. Love is there as well as devotion. Anora should have been dealt the same fate as her Evil father Logain, the two work together through lies and deceptions. My Warden served as the new Queen along side Alistair as King. Executing Anora would have been so nice.. People are too rough on the character Alistair... Also it would have been a great addition to the ending to see the Warden meet the crowds and to see the lavish Marrige of Eliisa and Alistair and the celebrations afterwards..

--

Well, Alistair unhardened makes it fairly clear that he doesn't want to kill Anora. Hardened he doesn't say outright to execute her either. This isn't really the place to ask these kind of questions. HelterSkelter 23:12, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

I would have to agree. It always felt as if the lack of an appropriate resolution with Anora was a hanging thread. One of many things that didn't get resolved in the OC. Anora still being referenced as Queen while a Fem Noble that chose to marry Alistair being referenced as princess consort seemed insulting. Awakening did next to nothing to tie up this thread, imho. Yes, Alistair called you his wife, but I don't recall anyone calling you Queen, so Anora must still be alive and acting as queen. If anything, I felt Awakening only created more loose threads that didn't get resolved.Pvpgirl 12:39, March 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's a known bug, that Queen Anora reference--it's supposed to only show up in the Mistress ending, where your convince Alistair to keep you without being Cousland. I don't know why they refer to you as Princess-Consort in the epilogue--everywhere else you're referred to as "Queen"--even Alistair introduces you in the Post-Coronation ceremony as the woman who "will soon be" the Queen. You are actually more noble than Anora, who was a teyrn's daughter. It seems to go that your are queen, save for the (several) bugs in the epilogue. HelterSkelter 18:13, March 30, 2010


 * It's not being a teyrn's daughter that makes you more noble; the female Cousland is also a teyrn's daughter, and teyrns are second only to the King in nobility.


 * It's the fact that Loghain was a commoner raised to a teyrn, while your family was not (although going far enough back they were originally guards for the prior teyrnir).


 * That bug really annoys me. I'm like HEY NOW. I'm Queen :) Vavasor 17:25, April 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh...yes...-///- That was a boo-boo. I did mean to say that she was the daughter of the commoner (two, actually, her mother was a cabinet maker's daughter), while you have a pedigree that stretches back before the Theirin line. Although it just occured to me--the "mistress" Queen Anora was discomforted ending doesn't show up because he's king...it shows up if, when Alistair asks you where you'll be headed, you say you'll be staying. It can be taken in both ways--Anora is uncomfortable because her husband's mistress is brazenly running around, or because Alistair (former rightful king) is still hanging out around the palace. To further my point, if you choose to rejoin the Wardens or travel and are still with Alistair when he's king, the epilogue card will say he went wherever you went (the Warden one even says he was relieved to be away from court to rebuild the Wardens). Like I said, tons of bugs. HelterSkelter 12:33, April 19, 2010 (UTC)

Possible source of inspiration for his name
I decided to replay Mass Effect recently, and whilst contemplating the amazing ending and idly staring at the credits, I noticed that there was a voice actor named "Alastair Duncan". Here is his imdb page. I thought that might be interesting.

89.151.200.87 20:07, March 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Possibly, but I think that's more of a cute coincidence--more than likely, the name came from Alistair McNally, the Director of Arts and Animations for Dragon Age: Origins. HelterSkelter 16:16, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

My personal suspicion is that the name Alistair is fantasty-appropriate version of the name Alexander, since the character is supposedly inspired by Xander Harris.Jancola c 21:10, April 22, 2010 (UTC)

Requesting Advice for Hardened Alistair Outcome
-Minor spoilers-

I've played through on a non-noble with a hardened Alistair to get the outcome where he would rule alone. At the landsmeet, after executing Loghain, I wasn't even given the option of choosing between Alistair and Anora, he stepped right up and took the kingship as soon as Eamon offered it to him.

This leaves me a bit concerened about my current play through, as well as a few future ones I have planned.

What I would like to see from the Landsmeet as a resolution:


 * Alistair hardened and married to Anora


 * Loghain recruited

I understand I would have to bring this option (marriage) up to both of them before the Landsmeet.

Questions:

Is there anything else I could do to promote this outcome?

If alternatives aren't brought up to Alistair and Anora beforehand, and the PC is a non-noble, will a hardened Alistair always take the kingship when offered without the PC being given the option to select the ruler?

If the PC is a noble, and Alistair is hardened, will the PC then be able to give their opinion on who should rule?

Please forgive my ignorance, I haven't done many play throughs with a hardened Alistair.

I have always played through with Alistair hardened. To the best of my recollection I was able to pick the ruler when I played through as an elf mage, but my memory is a bit hazy on that one so I am not positive. But with a noble and Alistair hardened, I was definitely able to choose the ruler (i have 2 noble playthroughs). If you are female you can also select at that point to rule beside him.

To have them marry and Loghain recruited, make sure you talk it over with both of them at Eamon's house in Denerim, and then at the Landsmeet do not allow Alistair to fight Loghain (he will always kill him, and then Anora will refuse to marry him).

This might help Possible Landsmeet Outcomes Vavasor 15:32, April 5, 2010 (UTC)

For this outcome:

1. Don't let Alistair duel Loghain, and then proceed to spare his life (if you don't spare him, Alistair will take the crown)

2. Convince Alistair and Anora to marry (if he's hardened and you are persuasive enough, you don't necessarily have to talk him into it before hand)

If this is the outcome you want, it doesn't matter if you're noble or not, because as soon as you move to spare Loghain, Alistair will step in and try to take the throne so he can execute Loghain. At this point, it is entirely up to you as to what happens next.

Thank you very much for the information, and the link. It has been most helpfull. I believe I found the reason I wasn't given a choice on who would take the crown: "If a hardened Alistair executes Loghain, he will assume the throne and end further dialogue on the topic. "  I think I let Alistair take the killing blow, even though the PC was the one who dueled Loghain. 129.198.241.67 08:10, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Did he pick Leliana's rose?
I'm baffled I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere. Alistair apparently picked the rose he gives you back in Lothering. I didn't see any rose bushes in Lothering, and the only one mentioned is the one in the Chantry's garden, which Leliana says was dead and gnarled. It was having her horrible dream of the blight and then seeing a single rose blossoming on that bush that made her have her revelation and leave the cloister. Is it implied that Alistair picked that rose? -- Aisynia 06:27, April 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't think it's implied necessarily...I don't think you're meant to see Alistair picking the rose--after all, you may never romance him. From a lot of angles, I think it makes sense--Alistair says he was surprised to see something so beautiful where there was none like it elsewhere...and from Leliana's description, that's the only one that grew. However, judging from the complete lack of garden in front of the Chantry, I'd say the Chantry kept it's garden behind. I think it's a neat idea, but definitely just fanon. 96.228.107.229 12:27, April 19, 2010 (UTC)