Talk:Qunari

Capitalization
Changed all instances of qunari to Qunari as ethnic groups/races are commonly capitalized with the exception of human. --A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi - A precipice in front, wolves behind (between a rock and a hard place) 17:56, November 15, 2009 (UTC)


 * Not in DA:O. To quote David Gaider "Would you capitalize elf and dwarf? If you don't then why would you capitalize qunari? If qunari was a nationality, as opposed to their actual race, then sure -- it would be capitalized." So back it goes . Loleil 00:19, December 11, 2009 (UTC)


 * I presume that back in 2009, you folks hadn't realized yet that the Qunari are a religion and not a "race". I see no post pointing this out, but the article does and apparently the capitalization is back, if Loleil ever did undo it.


 * Quotes on "race" because, c'mon, it's the 21st century, folks, stop calling humanity a race. I realize that, for exactly the same reason I'm referring to the century we're living in, "species" isn't a very fitting word for a medieval fantasy world. But we're talking real world orthography, so let's use the correct real world terms. I'm only pointing this out because I'm aware how all too often humanity is called a race, even when race has an absurd import worldwide and everyone should know better. --89.153.195.130 (talk) 20:47, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Inspired by the Ottoman Empire
I think that the qunari are inspired by the ottoman empire: the ottoman conquered quite a lot of lands in Europe, especially in eastern europe and spain. They were stopped by crusades and several wars (such as the battle of Poitiers or the infamous Saint League) and were known for the fact that they tried to convert every country they conquered. As such, Kont Aar remind me of Grenade, the last city possessed by the Ottoman in western Europe, which is still viewed as a unique exemple of religious tolerance before the XXth century. It should also be noted that the Ottoman Empire was far more advanced technologically than Europe until the Renaissance, in topic such as philosophy (Ottoman were the last heirs of the hellenic philosophers, quite a lot of savants fleeing the fall of the Roman empire to their land. Philosophers such as Platon or Aristote were reintroduced in the christian civilization by jewish intellectual: the strong jewish population in the Empire led to the translation of their text in hebrew , which in turn allowed their translation in western languages by jews living in Europe), medicine, astronomy, mathematics... They were seen as invincible before a naval victory of the Saint Alliance. well, I think there is a lot of historical parallelism between qunari and ottomans.

87.89.25.99 15:44, December 10, 2009 (UTC)

Transcription of 'Qun' Pronunciation
I am wondering if 'kyoon' is the best rendering of how the word is pronounced. 'Kjieun' is how it is pronounced, with a 'German' J and ieu as in the French 'lieu'. I do not, however, know how to put that in a format that will both be easily comprehensible and reflect the actual pronunciation. Thoughts?

Noble House 22:48, December 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * The German J, is a y. And ieu, en francais, sound alot like oo. Lowlandlord (talk) 02:44, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

Qunari Mage
A Qunari Mage is called Saarebas (this is the singular not the plural) Examples of Quarni mages are two of majoraline's guards during leliana's quest. I found this quite intresting.--Rolan Zevran 00:15, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Arishok
Sten refers to the Arishok but I dont see a referance to that here. Does anyone know what Arishok means? Skyte 00:06, January 21, 2010 (UTC) Qunari Don't have names, there title is there name. Sten is title, in case you where wondering. The qunari, don't live like what we are use to. If you know anything about computers and how they talk to one another, it is basically the same thing with the Qunari.

--Qunari Origins Story--

I don't know if anyone else has thought of this, but I was at the party camp checking everyone's stats and I saw everyone, bar Dog and Shale, had the little stained glass window-esque pictures, including Sten, who had a little Qunari picture. So I had a ponder and wondered 'Did Bioware ever think about about a Qunari Origins story?". So What does anyone think? may they have done?

beresaad
Beresaad.

Vereh saad.

Very sad.

Sten is from the Very Sad division. :(

Trivia-worthy?

Or has this been mentioned before?

That's just plain stupid 24.61.205.192 (talk) 03:31, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

Panehedan - alternate meaning?
I'd like to propose a different meaning. Everyone has assumed that panehedan means goodbye by virtue of the context it was placed in; however, it has occured to me (by which I mean I was browsing around for an online version of the bible) that it is a closer word to panihida which is (I believe) the Romanian name for Last Rites. I'm sure that's some adaptation of some sumerian/greek/whatever word, passed down through a trillion generations, but it's something to consider.

It's like not saying goodbye, but saying See you in hell! in an elegant way.

The role of women in Qunari Society?
Judging from Sten's comments to my female warden women seem to be expected to perform the 'traditional' roles of home and hearth, any thoughts on this? Would it be possible to hypothesise that some Qunari women, according to their status and background might be soldiers or priests?

No.

/Sten

Not to be sexiest, but the women of the Qunari people, are one of two things, either a priestess or a stay at home mom. They are seen as weak, and due to this, are never warriors or people who deal with combat in any way shape or form. They are seen mainly are caretakers, so there are only those two jobs listed above that fit in the Qunari way of life.

<--

Women aren't seen as weak and Men aren't seen as strong the Qunari just believe that some genders are better suited for certain roles. Even if a woman excelled in a man's position she could never do that job. The same is true for a man that excelled in a woman's position. The knife cuts both ways. By the by, women can be more than just caretakers and priestess, women can also be craftsmen and administrators.

In Dragon Age Orgins if you play a female warden Sten will accuse her of lying, either she is not a warrior or not a woman because in his society women simply are not warriors, whether they have the aptitude or not.

To be Qunari one must follow the Qun which dictates the roles in Qunari society, a female Qunari could decide to be a warrior but then she would have to go against society and abandon the Qun and would become a Tal-Vashoth, and thus no longer considered a Qunari.

-->

Samurai
If you were to say that the Qunari are based on the samurai, based on these points "* The Qunari warriors may be based on the samurai. Both have strong connections with their swords. Feel dying on the battlefield is the best, if not only, way to die. Both meditate and are taught from very early on a certain way. Honor is also a huge part of their ways.", you could just as well say they were based on the Knights Templar, Dog Soldiers, Spartans or any other warrior society. First the samurai connection to his sword is overexaggerated, probably from too much anime. It was not even his primary weapon, the primary weapon of the samurai was historically the bow, then the yari, then the sword. Every culture has a concept of hono(u)r (I'm Canadian) that is a "huge part of their ways". Thats part of the very concept of honour. Something your culture considers important. It was just as important to Romans, knights and Vikings as to samurai (might even say more so, because a Japanese concept that was quite popular is that victory is always more honourable than defeat, doesn't matter how you get the victory, the modern concept of samurai honour wasn't even realized until a period when the samurai became obsolete, during the Tokugawa Bakufu, during which time Japan was a united country that did not interact with the outside war, therefore no battles and wars. The author of the Hagakure, the "Way of the Samurai" never saw battle himself). Nowhere do the samurai say that death on the battlefield is preferable, the author of that statement is confusing seppeku with getting killed by someone else. The samurai honour system considered it dishonourable to live with dishonour (duh), so to erase the dishonour, they erase the life. There are thousands of examples of samurais running away to survive. And again, the idea, that its very noble to die on the battlefield, is not solely Japanese, even the French have been known to do it (well, the Foreign Legion most famously, which was mostly not French). Again, meditation, a common thing to any militant-religious group, such as knights. Not uncommon with the religious Turkish soldiers. The learning thing, that has more to do with a Caste based society. In a Caste based society everyone is brought up to fulfill their purpose, which is mostly already chosen. Lowlandlord (talk) 02:32, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * They say Qunari are based of samurai 'cuz animes are on high nowadays, so if there's something that remotedly looks asiatic, people already say it's based of it. The vikings have more in commom with the Qunari: they were not the feral barbarians everybody thinks they were, and they preferred to die in battle than any other death. Knights of medieval europe had a high sense of honor and of doing the right thing, protecting the opressed etc. So I won't say they're based of samurai, no. The Bard From Hell (talk) 02:40, August 8, 2010 (UTC) The Bard From Hell

Party Member in D.A.2
Do you think they'll have another qunari as party member this time? If they do, do you think they may be a possible romance option? --J Shepard (talk) 17:56, December 2, 2010 (UTC)

I think that the Qunari are seen as a sort of "evil" in DA 2. From what I've seen of the trailers, they are pretty vicious and seem to be a big enemy in the game. They might make a qunari companion, but I think it's improbable. --Davi310 (talk) 17:30, January 17, 2011 (UTC)

If they are seen as evil in DA2, then a qunari companion would be even more exciting, don't you think? 174.109.86.62 (talk) 17:04, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

It probably would be interesting. I think it would resemble Tosh in Starcraft 2, being in that you don't know if you can trust him or not.It might even come to the point where you would need to decide to keep him as your companion or kill him before he kills you. That's a pretty interesting point. --Davilimap (talk) 18:01, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

Alas... there was no such companion. And I was truly disappointed. I thought I'd found him when we get Ketojan. All the signs pointed to it, they even had him being given a name. What reason would that blindly zealous sociopath have to name him, if it's not an excuse for a player companion to have a proper name? Seems like they meant for him to be, then changed their minds. This way, it just ended up contributing to the shoddy writing and plot details I've constantly witnessed in DA2. Sigh... there's a lot of room in that companion selection screen. --89.153.195.130 (talk) 20:25, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

The new picture at the top
I really don't think we should be comparing these two screen shots. I know that Sten is a qunari born without horns, but we have not seen a hornless qunari in the new art style. I'm sure that there will be one at some point (perhaps in future dlc/expansion), but comparing them now does not seem to be a good idea considering the qunari model from DA:O was just a big human with bronze skin. Balitant (talk) 23:19, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree. The picture implies that all hornless qunari look like that. We don't know that's the case. The art shift meant the qunari got a redesign. If we were to see Sten, he would look different. EDIT: How is this for a generic qunari picture? HelterSkelter (talk) 01:36, March 25, 2011 (UTC)

Format of the page
I'm temporarily locking this page before this turns into an edit war (which is already on its way to)—it is locked for a day to sysops only, so this won't be very long (it can be unlocked earlier). Instead of reverting each other's edit, please discuss it on the talk page when there's a disagreement.

"The picture at the center thing" had been used on the elves articles, but that does not mean it's the format that we should all follow. Changes happen, for better or worse.

I get that all articles aren't necessarily the same, but we want consistency within the wiki. The only pages that follow that format are the game pages like Dragon Age: Origins. Moreover, I feel that the picture used with a frame is not appealing being centered, and the black frame within the picture is unnecessary.

And these are my opinions, as an editor. --D. (talk · contr) 04:00, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

I think this format doesn't work very well since the Qunari are completly different in Origins and DA2. If someone who doesn't know the game very well comes to the wiki and opens up the Qunari page and sees the picture from DA2, they might get a little confused. I think that there is no need to start off with a picture, since most people want to see the info on the page. Also, too many pictures on a page makes for a lot of confusing because some people like a certain picture while others don't like it. This sort of think usually happens with the main picture of a page, so putting an image as the first think on the page is just asking for more edit wars. This is just my opinion, and I would like to see what some others users think of this. --Davilimap (talk) 04:08, March 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, I think we must have a single policy on race pages like this one, which uses the same format of presentation. And Qunari are not completly different in Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2, they stayed giant, faithful to Qun, and if you read the codex and the dialogues with Sten, you will see that the difference is just for the appearance and is smaller (in addition that the horn/hornlesss were explained by the developers). It's not as if their appearance was completely different and Qunari are very rare in Dragon Age: Origins, this is not all of its particularity that we see but a small disparate group having almost all a head like Sten.


 * Also, we are on a background page, images are for illustrate the narrative and a person seeking this page will seek to have information on the page, not on a particular game, it's not like a page of characters or items. It's think the image of the race is better in the center with the quote below, this reinforces the introduction and giving the impression of reading a book. Itachou [~talk~] 04:47, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

Until we see a hornless qunari in the new art style, it will be somewhat hard to make a comparison considering how the qunari model in DA:O was an enlarged human model with bronze skin. So I do agree with Davilmap. If we want to keep it, then perhaps it would be ideal to put it closer to the bottom with a note stating that "this is what a hornless qunari looks like prior to the art shift bioware to in the DA franchise". Though I differ on the stance in regards to starting with a picture at the start of the page; rather I found the picture preceding this one to be good. Balitant (talk) 05:13, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

I just want to say (again) what D has mentioned earlier. PLEASE DISCUSS FIRST AND THEN MAKE THE CHANGES. If someone is following this page, the edit war will result a lot of unwanted notifications in his/ her email inbox. -- Snfonseka (Talk)  13:31, March 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Like D-day say, this format was already use in the Elves page, so I don't make big change, just put in place the policy that was supposed to be used. Have no specific policy on a certain point leads to what each choose the policy as it wants to follow, ensuing debate like this should not be. Someone wins or loses, but all we lose time for nothing, which is unfortunate for a well built and great Wiki that don't have specific policy. Itachou [~talk~] 15:28, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

Tal'vashoth
According to one of the codex entries in DA2 (obtained in act one, either fight them or found in the qunari compound), the renegades are simply referred to as "Vashoth" by qunari meaning "grey ones". Apparently the "Tal" changes the meaning to "True Grey", and it is the tal'vashoth themselves who use the use the title to identify themselves. This does not make a great deal of sense seeing as how we see many qunari, like Sten and the Arishok, referring to these exiles as tal'vahsoth and not vashoth. Balitant (talk) 07:47, March 22, 2011 (UTC)

Qunari Warden
Does anyone know if there's ever been a Qunari warden? because I think he would be the inherant badass of the series haha


 * The Qunari having arrived by warships four centuries ago in Thedas, and only for war. They doesn't know well the Blight and only have heard the stories about the Grey Wardens. The Tal-Vashoth fled from Qun to find freedom, I don't think they would really want to integrate the Grey Wardens that take their freedom again, but yes it would be nice for the future Blight ;). Itachou [~talk~] 14:01, April 4, 2011 (UTC)

Split candidate
I don't really want to make two different topics... so the discussion is actually on Talk:Qunari Words. --D. (talk · contr) 04:12, April 12, 2011 (UTC)

Tranquil workers
Why does it say that the qunari give there captives the choice to convert to qun or become a laborer and if they refuse they get killed this article even states that the qunari do not waste resources and in DA2 Fenris mentions that if Isabella was taken by the qunari she would have been converted to the Qun or made into a mindless laborer so how can they refuse if there turned to mindless laborers
 * ✅ This information was added to the article: Qunari. Asherinka (talk) 09:06, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Kossith
Is Kossith really the race of Qunari and Tal'Vashoth? If so, should we change the article name to Kossith and make a seperate page for the Qunari? --Drldrl (talk) 00:52, July 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't have a strong opinion on that. Although the name is the correct one, it's the less commonly referred to for the race. If you want, you can add  at the top of the page. --D. (talk · contr) 01:02, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with renaming the page, but Qunari should have a section on the Kossith page, not a page to themselves in my opinion.  King Cousland |  Talk  22:33, July 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * Now that you bring this up, I don't know. Currently, it's just to move the page, but since most of the article is about the Qunari, wouldn't it be better to actually split it? We have a page about Tal-Vashoth. --D. (talk · contr) 23:27, July 12, 2011 (UTC)

I think that there's too much to say about Qunari to just put them into a section, so I agree that they should have their own page come to think of it. I do, however, think that Tal-Vashoth should be made a section of the Qunari page, instead of having a page to themselves.  King Cousland |  Talk  15:38, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

I have nothing against this idea. It sounds much more logical to having it that way, less referred or not. --Chewin3 19:03, July 13, 2011 (EEST)

Honestly, we should. Add all physical, biological, and technological associtions to a Kossith page, and the stuff about the Qun stays on this articile.--BriNg iN DeR FLAmeS?! (talk) 08:23, July 15, 2011 (UTC)

I tagged Tal-Vashoth to be merged with this page (although it's written as "Qunari"). I think we can just have everything on one page ("kossith") rather than split the Qunari section to another page. --D. (talk · contr) 19:09, July 15, 2011 (UTC)

The page has been renamed to "kossith" per this discussion. If we want to split the page and such, the article needs to be tagged with Template:Split instead. --D. (talk · contr) 17:49, July 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * While I'm new here and my word might not have much weight to it, I'd support the split. Having the page on "Kossith" be mostly about the Qunari would be like having the page on "human" be mostly about the "chantry". Omacron (talk)

I also support the split. --Drldrl (talk) 21:27, July 25, 2011 (UTC)

Is the race truly called Kossith? Isn't the information on the races a conflict of interests of sorts? In the Origins all members of the race are referred to as Qunari. There are various Qunari mercenaries, not Kossith mercenaries. Also the Tal-Vashoth who are being hired to defend Denerim in the darkspawn DLC for the DA:O are called Qunari. The game and the codex imply that both the race and the followers of the Quen are called Qunari. I always though it was kind of like the Jewish. One can be of Jewish religion and origin, but also people who aren't religious but were born in the area are still called Jewish, are they not? I just think it's messing with canon and coming up with stuff form thin air.

Sorry, if I'm posting it in the wrong place or my words are not as clear as they could be - English is not my first language. Henio0 (talk) 01:44, August 29, 2011 (UTC)


 * Probably something like Arab/Muslim. Not all Arabs are Muslims and not all Muslims are Arabs, but it's a mistake that non-Muslims and non-Arabs often make. 78.8.128.165 (talk) 16:48, March 2, 2012 (UTC)

Plot hole
I find many ways to criticize the concept of the Qunari just from this article, flaws in the philosophy, the greatest and most basic being, as all the information points to, that the Qunari society operates mechanically and fundamentally represses individuality, thus making any Qunari devoid of actual "life". Following the Qun strictly seems to equal merely existing as a tool, opposite to actual sentient life.

But anyhow, I'm posting to denounce a plot hole: "The Qunari have developed certain technologies absent in Thedas, such as "gaatlok" (gunpowder) and cannons, the secrets of which they continue to carefully guard. With these technologies the Qunari were able to sweep across much of Thedas, including parts of the Tevinter Imperium."

Right. Gaatlok, ammunition for the cannons, which are perhaps the greatest military advantage of the Qunari, a dormant threat to all of Thedas. But when a few hundred Qunari infantry get stranded in Kirkwall - for what, 4 years? - no Thedosian power or entity even tries to acquire this critical tech?! Neither covertly nor openly. What nonsense is this? It's almost laughable how, despite this, they release an add-on, that Mark of the Assassin DLC, where a high noble, on behalf of the Empress of Orlais, is scheming to acquire something with which to strike at the Qunari. At the very least, it means they are not relying on a lasting peace, but preparing for war, recognizing the obvious threat that the Qunari pose.

But wait, here's the kicker: the arishok and all his men openly attack Kirkwall, which, by no uncertain means, must be a breach of the peace treaty. Well, once they're vanquished, why in the hell is the gaatlok recipe not seized? Bah! You see such plot holes and inconsistencies throughout the blasted game. And story isn't even the only faulty aspect of the game, just the most. --89.153.195.130 (talk) 21:42, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Remember how the Arishok said they would all die to protect the gaatlok, and had a fake as well as other protections in place? It's not as if they can't replace it either, if at such great risk they would just destroy the information/method/whatever. It is a plot point that they have protections, not a plot hole. (175.39.35.137 (talk) 04:15, November 2, 2011 (UTC))

And it is unclear how well known and understood the nature of gunpower is to others. In Thedas, they are not all that interested or knowleagable in other cultures. They mostly see gunpower as just some form of qunari magic and (as Hawke can point out) most see no point when they have mages for that. Only the knowleadgeable and greedy would want to find the formula, and they are either dumb enough that the qunari, disciplined and intelligent soldiers they are, can counter it or smart enough to know that trying to sneak into such a small compound with such a large amount of qunari to steal something they would all guard with their lives is foolish and doomed to fail. And the apparent view of Orlais government (at least the ones in charge) are to appease the qunari with the Tomb of Koslun. Starting a war for something that may not work for them is not a smar move.--Ironreaper (talk) 03:35, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Split
Just in case anyone was wondering, the split proposal is sort of at Forum:Book excerpts. The idea is to group codex entries (whether they are found in-game or elsewhere). The kossith (or Qunari—I haven't read the whole thing) section will be marked as such. --D. (talk · contr) 17:10, January 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * ✅ The page has been split. --D. (talk · contr) 17:35, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

I'm having trouble understanding
So are the horned people the same race as Sten? I get that not all Kossith are Qunari, but I'm not getting if "Kossith" refers to both these sorts of people or if those are two diffent races. I guess I'm just slow.--Grassrunnerdaughter (talk) 05:01, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

They are. The best way (I find) to think of horned and hornless Kossith is that it is a genetic trait. Some Kossith may or may not have horns based upon their genes, and some humans may or may not have red hair depending on theirs. I've oversimplified it, but I hope this helps. ---- Isolationistmagi   05:12, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you--Grassrunnerdaughter (talk) 14:36, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

Kossith and Qunari are not synonymous
I mentioned earlier up in the talk page that I really think this page needs to be split. I do apologize if this is out of line but I felt creating a new topic would bring a bit more attention to the idea. The Qun is a religion/philosophy. It definitely deserves its own page, if we have a page for the Chantry, Elven pagan pantheism and dwarven Paragons. I honestly don't quite get why all of that is on the Kossith page. The Kossith are a species. Most follow the Qun, but most humans follow the Chantry and yet that page doesn't have anatomical information on them. The fact of the matter is that the Qun has many non-Kossith adherents and Tallis is a great example of one. The Kossith page should be on their biology and government (which admittedly is tied with the Qun) while "Qunari" should redirect to a "Qun" page with most of the information regarding the Qun in the current Kossith page moved there. Omacron (talk) 02:22, March 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * I completely agree. Asherinka (talk) 08:49, March 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * The split tag has been added. --D. (talk · contr) 14:43, March 21, 2012 (UTC)

I actually think we need three separate pages: Either that or move everything re government to the Qun, not to the Kossith. Asherinka (talk) 15:03, March 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Qun - for the religious teachings, including order, effectiveness, the good of all etc (like Chant of Light)
 * Qunari - for the details on the society and government, including roles, raising children etc (like Chantry)
 * Kossith - biology and a short reference to both the Qunari and the Tal-Vashoth (like Humans)
 * To play the devil's advocate: the existing pages on the intelligent races usually include information on their governments on it. Especially the Dwarves, of whom we only have one example of a state- while there are two known surviving Dwarven cities we only really know about Orzammer and therefore "dwarf society" is synonymous with "Orzammar". Following the example of other races, we should have some information on Kossith society, both Qunari and Tal-Vashoth but more detailed information should be on the Qun page. I am also not in favor of separate Qun and Qunari pages. The Qunari don't make a distinction, and neither should we.Omacron (talk) 03:45, March 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * I would agree were Qunari only Kossith. But we now know they are not: they can be elves, humans, even dwarves.. so I think it is unfair to add the info about Qunari social institutions only to Kossith, excluding all the rest: Triumvirate is not exclusively a Kossith government. Also, there is a religious text (Qun), and there is a society built based on it (Qunari). Why can't we make a distinction? Just add everything about certainty, "striving together", Asit tal-eb etc to the Qun page and everything about the society to the Qunari page. Asherinka (talk) 09:23, March 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think the best course of action would be to have a section on "society", give a short overview of Kossith within the Qunari, especially from a historical perspective, but have it mostly link to the Qun page, and then have another section in the Kossith page regarding tal-vashoth. Omacron (talk) 09:28, March 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree that the Kossith page should have short summaries re both Qunari and Tal-Vashoth, but as I've written above I think religious texts (Qun) and society based on them (Qunari) should be described on separate pages. I propose to wait for other users to express their opinions) Asherinka (talk) 09:32, March 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * I also agree with splitting it into three separate pages, the various aspects should be treated the same as other species. While it could be noted that most kossith appear to follow the Qun, one does not necessarily define the other. Yuoaman (talk) 20:00, March 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with Asherinka. ---- Isolationistmagi   20:05, March 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree with the proposed split of doing it in three pages, per Asherinka. The religion is different than the culture. In addition to the Chantry article, we have an article on the elven pantheon for elves, which is exclusively about the religion some elves follow. Although it can always be an exception, I believe it is more organized to split the article in three.


 * I'm also bumping this thread as last call for consensus (one more day). Although we could drag this discussion, the current trend of this discussion is to split as Asherinka suggests. --D. (talk · contr) 18:24, March 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think that the terms of "Qun" and "Qunari" are quite similar yet they are not synonymous in order to be merged in one page. The first is about the religion while the second is about those who follow that religion. See: Chantry
 * The "Kossith" page however is completely unrelated and it is about a race, so it should be separated as well. Viktoria Landers (talk) 18:53, March 27, 2012 (UTC)

✅ The page has been split as suggested by Asherinka, who also did it. Thanks! :] --D. (talk · contr) 03:33, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

"Militant Islamic Borg"
"The Qunari have been nicknamed "militant Islamic Borg" by lead writer David Gaider. Gaider later clarified that he meant this as reference to the Qunari's relationship with the other nations of Thedas, not to the specific tenets of Islam."

The quote is from the old boards, so it's going to be impossible to really confirm it, but there's a thread called "Will DA2 be racist?" on BSN, and the link to the old thread is here. 16:50, December 28, 2012 (UTC)

Armaas and the horns
The article suggests that Armaas was born with horns and cut them off. Is there any base for this? Or is his character meant to be an example of a Tal-Vashoth, not a Qunari who cut his horns off? If so, I say we should remove his name from the section as it is confusing. Henio0 (talk) 18:26, February 15, 2013 (UTC)

Split to differentiate religion and race
I suggest a split. I believe the article may be confusing to people who aren't very familiar with the lore, and for those who insist on differentiating between the two by incorrectly calling the race kossith. Additionally, a separate page for the cultural Qunari would work like the Chantry article, which is about a chiefly human religion - but it's not mixed with the race. I am aware it would take a lot of time - but I am willing to do it all, if need be. Henio0 (talk) 20:05, March 3, 2013 (UTC)


 * I think when people come to read about the Qunari they would want to read about both the culture and the race. As these two are so intertwined, I wouldn't support a split at this point. That being said, I do think the Society and culture section could be in much better shape. I think tightening that up and making the Qun the focus of some of that content would help with any potential confusion. 00:59, March 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * Indeed. Improving the existing text is probably the best idea as the religion and the race is considered to be one and the same in this case. You remember, the link to BSN I shared with you in Armaas' talk page, yes? 01:10, March 5, 2013 (UTC)

If we're not going to split the article, we should at least fix it a little. What I mean by that is we should use "qunari" when talking about the race, and capitalised "Qunari" when talking about religion, as is done in the games. Henio0 (talk) 22:23, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Qun is their culture, fallowers of this are called qunari, the ox-men are 1st race who follows this and they all say qunari about themselves. Kossith is an archaic name of their race. I think if viewers are interested in species they should be redirected to qunari and when they are interested in their culture, they sould be redirected to Qun. That's what I think.78.9.145.132 (talk) 13:31, May 4, 2013 (UTC)

I also oppose a split. My main concern is how to split information about qunari culture, history and politics between two articles since they are so closely related. It's also not clear how articles "Qunari (culture)" and Qun will differ. 16:46, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

The culture religion and races are three different things, while race and culture are related they do not cover religion, the only religion in the series so far that is reserved for a single race would be the Dalish beliefs and they have their own page, also it is good to differentiate because it makes it clear not muddled to new comers, also it is confusing because it does not address other races effectively and or it does not address Kossith who leave the Qun's teaching, they do not identify, finally it indirectly labels the Qunari under the race category which is what i believed started this just simply look up the race. In sort any one can be a Qunari but you have to be born a Kossith, having it otherwise is just lazy, that said in each talk about both, and I am more than happy to help move stuff.(User:AlbinoBlackLamb)


 * They are not kossith anymore, just like humans are no longer homo erectus. To sya kossith is like calling the Qunari cows, and humans monkeys. :) But anyway, you proved my original point for the split. BTW, you can read up on Tal-Vashoth here as well. :) Henio0 (talk) 09:06, June 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * "'But that's confusing!' Err... no. No, it's really not. Not unless you're trying to be pedantic." David Gaider. 00:14, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

As per topic, I still think we should really start using the official in-game capitalisation, as stated above by me. Big Q for the followers of the Qun, and small Q for the ashen giants. I also still think it would be beneficial to have split articles, but I will be content with improving this page to be more about the qunari, and The Qun about Qunari, as is humans about humans and Chantry about the chantry. Henio0 (talk) 09:06, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

Please more voice your opinion!
It's three and a half months that this nomination is up and running. If we get more opinions, I'll be able to close this nomination in one way or another. Please vote! 11:20, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

How is it less confusing to use a religious term to define a race and simply changing the capitalization, as justification? I did not label the page, it is qunari race till someone comes up with an idea, but what is wrong with having a page for the race in the first place. that is what i dont understand, the qunari are followers of a religion, it does not stipulate anywhere in lore that a qunari has to be "a ashen giant." Also the reason why we are no longer homo erectus is we evolved, where any where does it say that the quinari have in the lore. for that matter that humans did the same way we have. I mean something would have to be different for qunari to be there in the first place. This whole discussion shows we need a Kossith page if for nothing else to say that it is a dead ancestors of what would be the qunari, for being a game with such deep lore we should not limit pages, so i repeat whats the harm? AlbinoBlackLamb (talk)


 * It's not about confusion, that. That point is about making the article(s) correct, as the game does differenciates between the two through capitalisation, and so should the wiki. And you are wrong, a qunari has to be an ashen giant, whereas a Qunari doesn't. The easiest analogy I have is Jewish people, who can be of Jewish religion and Jewish ethnicity; there are Jewish who don't follow Judaism, and there are white, black and Asian people who are Jewish because they follow Judaism. It works exactly the same with the Qun, only that it is not a religion but a culture. The so-called "confussion" comes from the fact that Qunari themselves don't care about differanciate their races and don't place the horned Qunari above Qunari of non-qunari (or known historically as kossith). But we are creating an encyclopedia, and thus we can differanciate. For example, Tallis is an elven Qunari, Sten is a qunari Qunari, and Maraas is a qunari Tal-Vashoth. Quite confusing, yes, but not if you look at it the right way.


 * Also, we don't know where the Qunari come from originally. It's posible that there are kossith in their homeland, but the article about qunari would be about the kossith we know - the qunari. The Qunari evolved past being kossith and no longer consider themselves to be so. It's hard to find a good analogy, but it's kind of like when the political system changes, e.g. when the Communists have overthrown the Tzar, the Russian people who agreed to become Communists were no longer subjects to tsardom, and thus cannot be described as such. Henio0 (talk) 09:19, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Ok so first i get the separating big Q and little q, i think some of the problem is the codexs themselves, which i have been reviewing, the origins codex does claim qunari is the name, where as here is an exerp from the second. "The race we call "Qunari" are formidable. Nature has given them fierce horns and strange eyes, and the ignorant look on them and see monsters." the quotes around qunari indicate that the name does not apply, at least any more, so i believe the term is subject to change.

Secondly while you have a strong point by calling the Qunari an Ethnic religion, they are not exactly, it might have started that way but, several main stream religions have their own cultures for instance, Islam, has Arabic and Islamic law, Catholics have Latin and catholic social teaching and so on and so forth, while language and social conducts are a major part of race it is not everything. I think that the followers of the Qun share a lot with the followers of Islam and that is a better analogy. Also The qunari seem to be less selective than the Jewish people, who at least started out highly selective. But in either case as a way to justify lore, i think it started out as a ethnic religion but is not any more after the spread of qunari.

for the record Jews are a nation people, Israel (tribal origin) bound by an eternal covenant of the faith (religion) of Judaism. It is the laws of Judaism, given to the covenant nation, Israel, in the Torah, that determine Jewish identity. It is not a matter of “blood” but of self-determination through the laws of the Jewish people. Jews are NOT considered a race. Jews are not ethnicity. There is simply NO single Jewish ethnicity. There are many ethnicities that are distinctly Jewish.

While the followers of the Qun have decided to give up their identification by race that does not change what they are. all I want to know is what we call the qunari race. and sure i get your point about old institutions. it would be like calling a Russian a soviet or an English person Anglo-Norman, but while our own world is truly defined by one race, dragon age has many, so it is hard to make analogies because there are non. so is there no word for these people or will i have to make do with "qunari" if so how do make the distinction on the wiki. AlbinoBlackLamb (talk)


 * "If you want to refer to the horned race, it's Qunari." David Gaider. 16:34, June 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * BioWare seem to often go back on their word. Like, see the very first topic on this here talk page. :P Henio0 (talk) 18:33, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

I'm of the mind that no page split should be necessary, since the Qun and the people who serve beneath it have essentially become one and the same. As such, splitting simply for posterity seems like wasted effort, since it's never acknowledged in a meaningful way in any of the series' media. EzzyD (talk) 16:15, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

I've come to a realisation that a page called Kossith would be the best solution. It would serve like Alamarri does for Ferelden. There we would describe the physical appearance of the ashen giants, their appearance in Korcari Wilds during the First Blight, and that then they were gone for 500 years, to appear back as Qunari, which the article would then link to. This way we could focus on actual Qunari in the Qunari article, i.e. all those who join the Qun, rather than describing both this, and the horned race. Henio0 (talk) 18:33, June 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * Kossith is the culture before the Qun, not the race. 19:26, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, so are Alamarri :P Henio0 (talk) 08:59, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * I might have misunderstood what you said, I thought that you were talking about moving all information about the horned race to kossith article. 09:54, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, nevermind anyway, we don't even know if these kossith are even related to Qunari. They may both be just of the same species, like humans. Henio0 (talk) 09:58, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Henio0.Also i just saw this ""It's also not a term the Qunari would use themselves. If you want to refer to the horned race, it's Qunari. Members of their religion who are not also part of the horned race are generally called Viddathari. If you really want to say "Kossith", that's up to you-- we can hardly stop you, and I've no idea why you'd care about what we think-- but it's a little annoying when people roll out "Kossith" first, when everyone would know what they're talking about if they just said "Qunari"."- David Gaider" So it seems now that we need a viddathari page and a Kossith page and things would be right as rain. --AlbinoBlackLamb (talk) 19:46, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Viddathari are still Qunari, so I'd oppose a separate page on the converts, and the existing article describes them fine. Henio0 (talk) 08:59, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

✅Ultimately, I vote no for the split, but the article still needs sharpening. Henio0 (talk) 08:59, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

✅As before. 18:50, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

✅78.8.102.153 (talk) 19:24, June 24, 2013 (UTC)Just call me Dalish fan

✅ – official no from me. 19:33, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

✅ - for what its worth something must be done AlbinoBlackLamb (talk) 01:29, June 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * The only thing that keeps coming to mind for me is the fact that in MotA, Cassandra says "The Qunari are not a race. They are a religion," as opposed to saying "The Qunari are not JUST a race..." Not sure if that's important though, but it's what stands out for me personally. Sorry if I wasn't supposed to comment here or something. StillAlive (talk) 01:37, June 29, 2013 (UTC)