Talk:Archery (strategy)

So archery is weaker in terms of DPS. I don't see the problem in this. It's also the only damage dealing style that can potentially keep attacking from start to finish without stopping, and while the other weapon styles are still running towards their targets archery has already done serious damage. Some archery skills also have effects not mentioned in their description. I'm pretty sure one of them knocks back a target on hit. Finally Arrow of Slaying is not about DPS, it's about killing something. It may be inferior to three critical hits, but would really rather risk normal attacking a mage? Two mages?

I agree that its ridiculous that people find it underpowered though.

I'm pretty sure one of them knocks back a target on hit.

That's Shattering Shot. I've updated mechanics section for all talents, so it is mentioned now.

''It may be inferior to three critical hits, but would really rather risk normal attacking a mage? Two mages?''

Sadly, there are much more efficient ways to deal with mages in this game. Mana Clash, first and foremost. Full archer party (3 archers + Shale) should stick to auto-attacking the mage, in fact. The very first barrage (= 3 crits) is usually enough. All in all, Arrow of Slaying only works well vs. white creatures (critter or normal rank), which limits its usefullness. I see no reason to spend 3+ seconds just to deal 1000 damage to one white enemy, unless it is a mage, and you: (a) have no mage with Mana Clash; (b) have only one archer in your party. IN 10:21, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Here's an interesting tidbit. When using Arrow of Slaying as an opening skill in practice, and your stamina is high enough, you are usually able to regenerate a large part of the stamina you lost before the battle actually starts. This makes it very powerful as a pre-emptive skill. I think the main thing about archery in this game has already been mentioned. An archer is basically the only character who can attack as soon as battle starts and just keep attacking as long as everyone else is doing his/her job. The sad thing though is that the AI is very easy to trick with skills like Taunt, so as long as a melee-er gets in position it can outdamage an archer. If the AI was smarter, archery would be a lot more viable (eg. A warrior and a rogue are attacking a dragon. Despite the rogue's massive damage the dragon ignores him and keeps attacking the warrior because of Taun/Threatent. 1 swipe would have been enough to cripple the rogue, but dragon keeps fixating on the warrior anyway. So much for draconic intelligence).


 * Actually, it's not an AI limitation, that's the way damage-based threat calculation formula works. Elite Bosses are virtually unaffected threat-wise by damage dealt to them: only distance-based and ability-based ('built-in') threat coefficients matter. Refer to Threat for additional details. IN 09:42, March 15, 2010 (UTC)

Shale
Is this article assuming usage of the Shale bug that nets 20%? That's not a great tool to rely on for autocrit


 * Of course. That +40% bonus to critical chance with Aim is the only possible way to attain permanent auto-crit. Just don't leave the aura's limits -- that's actually very easy to do. Personally, I find it extremely reliable. IN 06:33, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

It's certainly reliable in the sense that the bug is easy to exploit, but you should mention in the article that you're exploiting a bug which could be fixed in a future patch. Can you also put a chart or something to illustrate what the actual max crit % you've achieved is?


 * Rock Mastery description was updated by me with all the necessary information a while ago. I see no reason to duplicate it here. Anyway, as of patch 1.03, double RM effect is not fixed. The moment BioWare decides to fix it, I'll update this article. However, I doubt it will ever happen, since BioWare's policy regarding bug-patching is... well... you know... Concerning charts and illustrations: the article contains a link to short video hosted on YouTube, where I demonstrate critical chance modifiers for all relevant party members in-game at the end of Flemeth battle. I assume that's a perfectly adequate illustration. IN 07:24, March 15, 2010 (UTC)

Since rock mastery is bugged why not just keep zoning to get 100% crit rate w/o using +crit% items? Does the bug only work for the 1st zone?


 * That is correct. That's exactly the reason I categorize RM stacking as a relatively minor exploit. For example, in 1.02 it was possible to stack Rally infinitely to get astronomical attack and defense ratings of 1000. That's not the case with Shale's RM aura. All negative bugs affecting archery taken into consideration, it's hard to be ashamed of putting Rock Mastery and Repeater Gloves to good use. Fight fire with fire, so to say :) IN 11:15, March 15, 2010 (UTC)

Stacking rapid aim items
So if I don't use shale or rapid shot, how many rapid aim items should I stack to achieve the best attack speed? Armsman's tensioner+far song+repeater gloves will stack?


 * Theoretically, yes. But there is absolutely no point in equipping such a combination of items. Why? Because you cannot lower Base Attack Timing with it, neither can you go lower than 0 as far as Aim Speed is concerned. Say, you have Aim activated, and your party is using Haste. That's +2.3s aiming time. Armsman's Tensioner + Far Song + Repeater Gloves will account for a whopping -3.6s. Technically, that's -1.3s, but, obviously, aiming animation speed cannot be negative, so your Aim Speed is still 0. So you are bored and throw Swift Salve in! Okay, that's another +0.9s. But you are still at -0.4s Aim Speed, that effectively translates into Aim Speed 0. Provided you don't equip massive chest armor (and why would you?), your Base Attack Timing will be 0.8s. Add another flat +0.8s for animation loop, and you'll have the same old 1.6s per shot fire rate. IN 01:36, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

What if one doesn't have RTO? Would equipping Armsman's tensioner + far song while aim is on while playing solo (so no haste or rock mastery) be worthwhille?


 * Worthwhile - no doubt, as it will reduce the +1.5s penalty imposed by Aim to only +0.9s. Your fire rate will be 2.5s. IN 15:35, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

I just verified that basically all the information you've listed here is correct for the XBox 360 as well, repeater gloves do in fact give a whopping bonus to speed and reduce it to the minimum 1.6s per shot with Aim turned on. Tivadar 19:53, March 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Tivadar. Great job! Now console users can abuse the hell out of this exploit, too! ;) Just kidding: not much to abuse, truth be told. IN 20:45, March 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well it at least makes playing an archer viable, given that archery was never patched for us. We get 0.3 bonuses from strength and dexterity rather than 0.5 on both shortbows and longbows. Tivadar 20:53, March 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's very unfair. You cannot fix it with fan-made patch, so you, and the rest of console users, are basically stuck with nerfed archers. BioWare's failure to address this issue on consoles was outrageous. Even given limited time frame and human resources: there are bugs, and then there are bugs. Archers being only 60% as effective as they should be is one of the issues BioWare should have found time and manpower to fix. IN 20:58, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

Tivadar actually on the PC and PS3 version it is kinda the same. It's 0.5 x 0. 675 x dex/cun/str. O.675 is from the random number generater w/ takes 50%~75% of the listed attribute value for dmg. That's 0.3375 x dex/cun/str. Maybe that's the 0.3 you're talking about.We just got RTO on the PS3 so it seems soloists will have to look to using repeater's gloves.

crit bonuses and archery
w/c crit bonuses work w/ archery? Obviously song of courage, ranged critical chance from weapons and rock mastery works. How about blood thirst, precise striking, bravery and the flanking bonus to crit (a little bit higher if one is a rogue and has combat movement)?


 * Blood Thirst and flanking bonus work. Precise Striking doesn't. Bravery is tough to check, but it probably doesn't. Anyway, warrior archer is not a great idea in DA:O. Maybe things will change in DAA, though: several new warrior specialization talents, such as Beyond the Veil, can be very useful for an archer. IN 15:52, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

I see so combat movement will be useful for a sniper (what we call rogue bow users on the PS3). Blood thirst is affected by the ranged attack speed bug as well so it won't improve ranged attack speed right? Actually on the PS3 I've tried soloing as an archer (what we call warrior bow users on the PS3) and it'ss quite a viable build as it can serve as the party's tank. The sniper deals more dmg though.


 * (1) No, it won't slow down aim speed, as it affects melee attack speed only. You can use Blood Thirst with no penalty to aim speed. (2) Yes, it's a viable tank build. Though I feel Scattershot-using two-handed Reaver is still a better choice: more threat management options, more durability. IN 22:30, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

rock salve + rapid aim?
I know you listed haste, swift salve and aim as sources of increased aim speed but how does rock salve fare here? Since the rapid aim items stack, it might be beneficial to add rock savle to that list since the rapid aim items like repeater's gloves might be able to offset the increased aim speed and you gain extra armor and physical resistance.


 * Thanks for pointing this omission out. Anyway, Rock Salve is bugged and does not affect attack speed (melee or ranged) in any way. Tested, verified with scripts. IN 02:37, March 15, 2010 (UTC)

critical shot and arrow of slaying works w/ freezing?
Do these shatter frozen/petrified opponents? And since the objective of this approach is auto-crit archery, do crit auto-attacks shatter frozen/petrified opponents?


 * Critical Shot and natural crits - yes. Pinpoint Strike-induced auto-crit - no. As for Arrow of Slaying, it's nearly impossible to test, and here's why: using AoS on Critters/Normals with lvl 25 archer (no saves from lower levels, sorry) always results in instant death; while Lieutenants and above, that take -90% bonus damage from AoS, are immune to shattering as of patch 1.03. Anyway, using AoS for shattering is a really, really, really odd idea :) IN 05:11, March 15, 2010 (UTC)

corruption vs helm of honleath
I know the corruption gives +5 while helm of honleath gives +4 but won't helm of honleath still win out dps wise becasue the +2 cun from HOH not only adds to attribute bonus to dmg but also to song of courage, tainted blade and armor penetration?

Given that you get corruption in the last ~30 minutes of the game or so, and given that after that, the only thing that really matters is awakening, given the new archery ability in awakenings that focuses on dexterity, I'd think corruption would win out hands down. Tivadar 17:26, March 16, 2010 (UTC)