User talk:Ygrain

Just saying a friendly (quirkytalk for sarcastic) hi!
So...I'll cut to the chase. Tolkien. How big a fan are we talking here? Peter Jackson fan...or Tolkien fan? I'm more of a Peter Jackson fan and pass it off as Tolkien because it sounds cooler (similar to a lot of things I say). I had a stint where I tried learning Quenya, but failed miserably because I was doing it all alone and now the only thing I remember is Elendil's Oath AKA Elessar's Oath AKA That Song Aragorn Sings Near The End of RotK (this sentence sounds better when 'heard' in a very fast...tempo? I forget the word).

Also, teacher? I sincerely hope you aren't teaching HS. I was in HS not too long ago (half a decade ago) and I remember how...kindly...the teachers are treated. I remember my time as a TA. I wanted to smack half the freshmen to their senses. Unfortunately, that would have meant jail time. I'm too pretty for jail. Besides, I doubt they'd be interested in cuddling. Sort of a mood-killer. But that's just me.

Creep you out yet?Quirkynature (talk) 04:12, July 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi there :-)


 * Tolkien all and through, I'm afraid - and a profound Jackson hater, at that. Can't stand film version which forsake logic for the sake of visual effects :(
 * Et Eärello Endorenna... I used to know every single elvish line from the book by heart, but never really felt urged to learn Quenya or Sindarin past the meaning of name elements, don't know why.


 * TA - Teacher's Assistant, HS - High School? Well, yes, I'm afraid - though I must admit that unless I run into an especially nasty class, I am quite content the job and don't have a problem putting the students down. - In fact, I even sadistically enjoy it ;-) My credo is, "Rather than let the students step on your throat, step on theirs yourself", and it works. - Though, the urge to to a profound slapping is sometimes almost irresistible.


 * Now, what was supposed to be the creepy part? --Ygrain (talk) 04:48, July 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * I tried reading the books when I was 15. Again at 17, then at 19. I guess I could try now, since I'm all "grown up", but I doubt I'll get past the first few pages. I understand up until page 100 it's pretty dull.


 * You might call the films sellouts but you KNOW you loved the scene in which Legolas topples that giant elephant thing all by himself. And then Gimli's flustered retort.


 * TA- Teacher's Assitant, HS- High School. Yes'm. I spent my senior year TAing my English teacher who, cruelly, put me in charge of assisting her in the first period. English. Not fun. Not enjoyable. But I learnt some patience there, I did. And compounded my issues there, I did. Might be where all my sarcasm stems from. Them kids weren't too bright to pick up on it, apart from making lewd remarks and ogling each other. I almost feel bad for them. Your credo, incidentally, is quite fitting. Survival of the fittest. Don't follow my advice but if you want to immediately shut somebody up, humiliate them. Won't earn you any favors, but it's a short term remedy. Hurts in the long run (I learnt that the hard way).


 * The creepy part was supposed to be that senseless monologue about me in jail and the actions and reactions in there. But you ignored it and trolled the troll, so I salute you on that. Quirkynature (talk) 05:03, July 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * Years of practice but thank you anyway, there are never enough compliments :-) And, as you may have noticed, I do tend to polish my sarcasm, as well. "I'm twice your age and know all these expressions twice as well, so do you really think I should be impressed?" made perfectly sure that I never heard any four-letter words in a particular class again. - In the long run, what works best is the reputation of the big bad teacher not to be messed with. Unlike some colleagues of mine, I do not hesitate to let my students fail if they are lazy, and that is the kind of news which always spread well.


 * That idea of senior students assisting their teachers is quite compelling, we don't have anything like that around here. A pity - I sure know of a couple of candidates I'd gladly assign with the job :-)


 * Concerning Tolkien - by "books" you mean LOTR trilogy, or the "holy trinity" Hobbit - LOTR - Silmarillion? If you are repelled by the beginning of the LOTR, skip to the Shadows of the Past to get a more detailed grasp of the history than was presented in the film, and then to the Prancing Pony; the narrative in between does have its specific poetics and appeal, but if it's not your cup of tea, there's no reason why should force yourself into it and be deterred even before you get to where the real fun begins. The Hobbit is probably the least favourite of mine, since I prefer the grand epic stories, which makes Silmarillion preferable for me, as well as its archaic, noble style of language.


 * To tell the truth, while Gimli's retort is funny by itself, this is one of the scenes which make me uncomfortable. First, it's totally unrealistic, and I pay great attention to this (unless some magic is involved, of course). Second, there is the aspect of ethics. When the two played their scoring contest first, it was in Helm's Deep and they were counting Orcs. On Pelennor, Legolas is shooting Men. If you do get to the reading, you will notice that while Orcs are depicted as cretures of pure evil, Men fighting on their side are portrayed as beguiled or enslaved, and after the battles are generally shown mercy. - Needless to say, in the book the counting happens only in Helm's Deep and only with Orcs. I wonder if Jackson ever realized the difference.


 * Creeped out? --Ygrain (talk) 08:53, July 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * I hate little kids using that four letter word. You're kids! Leave grown-up talk to grown-ups. But, noooooo, they like saying "fish". There's nothing wrong with saying 'aquatic vertebrate' but noooooo. Saying 'fish' is so much cooler. What's this world come to?!


 * If you do decide to suggest the idea, and if it does get implemented, for the love all that's good don't assign a student a first period class. Especially a senior. They already have senioritis and they tend to become bleary-eyed almost every time. Unless they're nerds (like me) and tend to wake up at 4 in the morning for some light reading ("I think I'll tackle a few hundred pages of David Copperfield today." Great book, by the by.)


 * The Hobbit I only know as the prequel to LotR. Silmarillion I've heard about cursorily. Seems like I've been very wrong. I'll take your advice and start at Shadows of the Past. If it turns out Aragorn isn't as Aragorn-y as he's supposed to be, I'll...have to get over it. How about The Hobbit? Worth a try? I doubt any Wiki would have the mind-numbing details Tolkien's so (in)famous for.


 * It's a known fact that directors tend to skip out a lot of material from the books when making a movie, but to that extent? I guess I was deluding myself into thinking Jackson kept as much material as he could. I'm going to have to revise my opinion once I finish the books.


 * Creeped out? Naah. Keep trying. I'll let you know when you hit it. :P Quirkynature (talk) 12:53, July 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * The Hobbit... it's basically a well-written book and certainly worth reading, but in comparison to the others, it is very clearly a children's read, with somewhat darker parts towards the end. The beginning of LOTR picks up the tone, though it is more sophisticated and pays greater attention to the nature and realia, and becomes a dramatic narrative from about the middle of Book I. Silmarillion may be a bit difficult read, since it's in the style of old epic poems, but it's certainly worth a try, if for nothing else then for the language. When read aloud, it has wonderful rhythm, like poetry in prose.


 * Jackson did quite an OK job in FOTR, where he more or less stuck with the book, though some additions and shifts he made felt wrong already back then. TTT and ROTK - er, DA2 equivalent. He dropped a lot of substantial material from the book and stuffed it with some material of his own, in a way which fits neither with logic nor with the atmosphere of the story. Were there a table in the cinema, I would have smashed my forehead bloody. Remember that part when Faramir forces Frodo and Sam to go with him and when they arrive at Osgiliath, Sam says "We're not supposed to be here", or something like that? Well, he's perfectly right, they shouldn't be there _at all_. Similarly, the book Aragorn and the movie Aragorn are two very different people, but the most glaring example of character abuse is definitely Faramir (aargh!). - Well, you'd better see for yourself, unless you want me to give spoilers? :-) I sure never tire of Jackson bashing :D


 * I guess I'll Wiki the Hobbit, then. I've seen the trilogy enough times to recall in excruciating detail exactly what happened in the past (lolol quiz me on that and watch me bungle it up) so I'll start up with Fellowship. As for Silmarillion, I'd be willing to give it a try, sure, no harm. Worst that happens is I give it up. Won't the first book, nor the last.


 * As for spoilers, go right ahead. It'd soften up the impact. So, in a way, I'd owe you. How's that for irony? Quirkynature (talk) 14:17, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks!
You haven't been on the Wiki much (or lurking tsk tsk) so I didn't get the opportunity to thank you, but I did take up LotR (I'm on TTT now) and...it's very nice.

I now see what you meant about the differences between the novel and the movies (the fact that Gandalf recommended Helm's Deep in the books is still a source of astonishment).

So, thanks for recommending the books. I'm enjoying them a lot. Quirkynature (talk) 22:27, August 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * I was on holiday - I did manage to do some lurking but not posting :-) I'm really glad you're enjoying the books, we can discuss the various aspects after you've finished - if you want to, that is. --Ygrain (talk) 05:19, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hope your holiday went well. Shouldn't really have been lurking on a holiday :P


 * If I want to? I'd love to--if you want to, that is. Quirkynature (talk) 05:24, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * With a three-year-old on my heels, every distraction is welcome, even on holiday :-)


 * Sure, go ahead --Ygrain (talk) 05:43, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

LotR discussion
Faramir isn't a...power hungry fool that Jackson portrayed him as!

I finished the part where he meets the hobbits and I actually like Faramir as a character. Jackson made him a redeemed character, so that surprised me.

Also stunning: Gandalf suggesting Helm's Deep as a retreat option rather than condemning it.

Remarkable: Aragorn isn't a "aww shucks...I don't want to be king" ranger, he's more of a "I AM the rightful king of Gondor...just not yet".

What has Jackson done to LotR?! Quirkynature (talk) 22:06, August 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * "What has Jackson done to LotR?!" - I believe "screw" is the word, but I'm not very familiar with English slang, so you may come up with something more fitting ;-)


 * Can't say what the true reason was but since the movie Aragorn does not really shine on his own, there couldn't be any other strong warrior-style character which would detract attention from the not-so-heroic king-rather-not-be. But don't worry, there's worse to come :-(


 * Similarly, I can only guess that Aragorn is so alistairing about becoming king because either 1) the way the character is depicted, he is not fit to the royal shoes, or 2) Jacson was trying to be "psychological" - and that in a film where there's really no space for additions, or 3) an inherited claim to power would not sit well with American audience. Or all of them.


 * Gandalf has a few more tricks up his sleeve, just wait for Minas Tirith and the confrontation with the Witch-King. --Ygrain (talk) 05:05, August 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * You know, it's a bad, bad thing to do but I'm going to go ahead and say the books were DA:O and Jackson made DA2. Would that be a fitting analogy or a tad too harsh?


 * There's worse to come for Aragorn? What, the Dimholt Road? That part? What do you mean, worse to come? Oi! Miss! What do you mean, worse to come?!


 * Gandalf vs. the Witch-King of Angmar? According to Jackson, the latter is far stronger. That's wrong, too?


 * Tell me the bromance between Legolas and Gimli continues? I'm getting rather attached to that stocky dwarf and his notched axe. Reminds me of Bruenor, maybe, that's why? Tsk, tsk. Quirkynature (talk) 12:28, August 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think your analogy fits perfectly, both screwed something magnificent that originally worked.


 * I meant worse to come for Faramir, but, you know, do you really expect the book Aragorn to attack someone from behind, or to attack someone coming to parley at all?


 * The WK... well, without giving you unnecessary spoilers, since the scene is IMHO one of the real peaks, it is not power but the manner of the encounter which matters here. BTW, was the prophecy concerning the WK already mentioned?


 * Yes, Legolas and Gimli are now best buddies forever and beyond :-) --Ygrain (talk) 13:01, August 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Do I expect the Dúnadan to attack somebody from behind? I don't know. He doesn't seem dishonorable, but the faux Faramir did, and, boy, was I wrong. Honestly? I doubt it. Is there even a Dimholt Road? Oh blessed God, did Jackson INVENT the whole ghost thing?


 * He's been mentioned in passing in Fellowship by Gandalf when it became common news that he'd stabbed Frodo with the Morgul blade. Gandalf hinted that he was *the* most powerful of the Nine, the Witch-King of Angmar, and beyond the skill of the Fellowship. Or was that the Balrog? Or maybe both? I don't rightly remember. But he HAS been mentioned by Gandalf in Fellowship as the most powerful of the Nine.


 * As for the Elf and the Dwarf being bestest buddies, yeah, that became evident when Legolas asked Fangorn for permission to visit his forest--only if Gimli could visit, too. And Gimli asked Legolas to visit the cave system underneath Helm's Deep.


 * Have you read The Silmarillion? I'm thinking of moving onto that once I'm done with LotR. Technically, that's basics. I should've started with that--and continued with The Hobbit before moving onto LotR, but what the heck. Your input? Quirkynature (talk) 21:46, August 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * But of course there is the Dimholt Road - but like most things, it looks nothing like Jackson made it. - There is no gooseberry jelly flooding Minas Tirith, either. - Speaking of Jackson's inventions, there are just two which I consider really good: swapping an unimportant Erkenbrand for Éomer, which knits the plotline closer together, and that scene with Arwen mourning Aragorn's death.


 * The one exceeding the powers of the Fellowship was the Balrog. - Well, this is not so important, so I'll give this away: there is a prophecy that the WK will not be slain by a man; it was mentioned either at Elrond's Council, or somewhere during the chapters about the siege of Minas Tirith. Was this mentioned anywhere in the film?


 * Of course I have; I have already recommended it, after all. However, it is a very different book, a different reading experience, and so is The Hobbit. Do give it a try, and don't be repelled by the beginning again ;-) --Ygrain (talk) 04:57, August 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * Gooseberry jelly flooding Minas Tirith. That made me lol. Perfect description.


 * WK will not be slain by a man. Yeah, Jackson incorporated that into the movies. Right before Éowyn killed him. Some consider it the most iconic scene of LotR, I consider it one of the more...um...foreseeable scenes. "I am no man." Stab! Inhuman screech! Shockwave! WK's helmet falls to the ground, crumpled and broken. Hmm.


 * The Silmarillion I'm definitely itching to read; The Hobbit I'm not so sure of, probably because I don't feel any attachment for Bilbo and, by association, for Frodo. I'll try not to get repelled by the beginning, but since I haven't read them at all yet, 'again' doesn't apply ;-) Quirkynature (talk) 12:31, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

ASOIAF
Ygrain, regarding the parallels between the franchises, I can see the following, though I agree that they are skilfully done, and it's hard to see the similarities unless you're actually looking for them. Anyway:
 * Warden = Night's Watch
 * Darkspawn = The Others
 * Qunari = Dothraki (to some extent)
 * Blood magic
 * Grey morality
 * A distrust of magic, especially the way Dothraki/Qunari treat magic-users.
 * Both series have a "healthy" obsession with killing off important characters :)

Would you mind sharing the link to your comparisons on my talk page (I'm only halfway through A Storm of Swords so you've probably got much more than me!)  KC. | talk 23:28, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * Very interesting parallels! [[Image:Elementalist.png|30px|link=User:King Cousland]]  KC. | talk 10:52, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

Mass Effect 2
You did a good thing starting ME2, but I honestly recommend you stop where you are and play ME first.

I honestly feel the impact of the series is heavier if you follow in order. Besides, Wrex!

That said, what class did you take? Hmm? Hmm? Quirkynature (talk) 21:34, September 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * Too late to stop, I'm afraid - I've invested too much time into it, and with starting to work full time since this term, there's a fat chance that I won't have the time for gaming at all :-( I'd better finish what I have on hand now, rather than end up with two unfinished games at the same time.


 * Wrex seems to be dead by default - too bad, since he seemed to be an open-minded type. However, since the genophage issue has been raised again, I guess I can revert the decision - I just hope it is the right thing to do (in fact, I pestered Mordin about it just yesterday).


 * Ugh... I picked what I thought would be easiest to use, i.e. soldier (based on the analogy that warrior class is easier to use than a mage). Spacer, the sole survivor, Paragon (with Renegade actions in fight and when dealing with the Illusive man), flirting with Kelly and romancing Jack (why does everyone seem to go for Miranda, by the way?) - oh, and male :-) --Ygrain (talk) 06:20, September 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, Wrex is dead by default. =\ Ah, well.


 * Actually, Soldier IS the easiest class. Adrenaline Rush just makes everything so much...easier. I don't know if you have the DLC or not, but the M-96 Mattock in the hands of a Soldier is just...overkill. Even on Veteran. Add in the Widow (what did YOU take on the Collector Ship?) and it's as close you come to a cakewalk, IMO.


 * Romanced Jack? You know, I've heard it's a very well done LI, but I just couldn't get past the fact that Garrus wasn't romanceable (rule 63 apply here, maybe?).


 * You played male? **Paragon interrupt** You liking it much so far? I've heard Jennifer Hale's done a very good job as Shepard, too. Quirkynature (talk) 13:41, September 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * Huh, it seems I'm not using my Shep very efficiently (hardly a surprise, since I really suck at anything strategy- or tactic-wise, and always get to know the tricks just by the time the game is almost over). I haven't played a shooter, or a SF, for that matter, before, so the guns are rather confusing for me (now, really, swords are somewhat easier to get to know). - When I went to the Collector ship, it seemed sensible to take that Collector particle thingy, and I really can't complain about the result :-) Under normal circumstances, I find myself in favour of sniper rifles (a good headshot is cool!) and also the geth plasma shotgun. I probably should have picked another class, but... as long as I'm having fun, I have no problem with it. - Actually, I took down the thresher maw with the sniper rifle ("several offers of breeding for Grunt and one for Shepard", lol!)


 * I _usually_ enjoy playing as male, especially in heroic stories, since I like my eye candy :DD (I played as a female in Morrowind, and spent quite a lot of time furnishing various houses with the trinkets I picked on the road - the open world stories seemed to be better for females ;-) ) And I'm quite satisfied with male Shepard, he is just the way I imagine that this type of hero should be.


 * Romancing Jack is really good, a bit similar to romancing Morrigan but IMHO even better (what, Morrigan refusing to be bedded for like half the game? Nonsense, my silver-tongued Warden would definitely do something about it)


 * Garrus is not romanceable? What a shame. I took an instant liking to him, like after thirty seconds of dialogue. Who is the popular romance for females then, Jacob? --Ygrain (talk) 15:12, September 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know about efficiency. Have fun. That's the main point. The only reason I can pretend to be sage-meister supreme about ME2 is because I spent 4 months (at least) replaying it.


 * I'd dole out advice on which weapon to use when, but I'll leave that until after your first complete playthrough.


 * I like Garrus' voice most, followed by Tali and male Shepard. The best voice acting, IMO, goes to the Illusive Man. Hands down. Perfect, or near perfect, rendition, I'd say. Martin Sheen FTW.


 * I pre-ordered the N7 Collector's Edition for ME3. Can't wait. Quirkynature (talk) 16:46, September 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * My first complete playthrough? My first and only, I'm afraid. RL keeps kicking in and distracting me from fun, I'm afraid. Anyway, I'm for Samara's mission, and then the "derelict" Reaper ship. Can't wait...--Ygrain (talk) 06:23, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

Yay, you finished ME2. Shoot away. I'm here. Quirkynature (talk) 04:28, September 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * /bang/ Well, where to start? - Aaaawesome. When I checked the journal, I went to do the DLCs first: the Lair of Shadow Broker (heh, I'm definitely going to romance Liara in ME1, it seemed that she had a very soft spot for Shepard), Overlord and Arrival before the Reaper IFF. Really great adventures. I snatched David from Cerberus (really love pisssing the IM off these days) and I really appreciated the little talk Shepard has with Hackett at the end of Arrival - the one where you can take responsibility for blowing up the system and the casualties. Definitely seems like the kind of stuff a Paragon Shepard should do, and it is what I missed in Awakening: getting to deal with the consequences of your actions, even though they were for the greater good. Adds flavour to the play, I guess (- uhm, needless to say that I burned Amaranthine, right?)


 * The derelict Reaper was damn creepy, especially when knowing that those husks are actually the people whom you see in the logs (I _hate_ husks, they far too fast for zombies). And the Suicide Mission... Wow. I was rather worried about picking wrong people for the tasks, since I knew that a wrong choice might kill them, but there were quite clear clues who to assign and, yay! no-one was left behind. I sent Legion to crawl and hack the door, Samara held the biotic field and Garrus was the second team leader.Fighting through the station was surprisingly easy for a final battle and with my standard squad of Jacob with Pull field and Miranda with Heavy Overload, I didn't even lack the ammunition (and carefully picked all I found). Getting down the Reaper Larva with a sniper rifle took some time but was quite easy - now, I was saving the particle beam for the _real_ trouble, like a band of scions and a couple of Praetorians coming right in the middle of the party, but they never turned up :-) - And I blew up the base, since I was no way going to let the IM get his paws on Reaper technology. What a pleasure, to tell him "I keep getting lots of bullshit on this line" and have Joker to cut him off :-))


 * Now, what is supposed to be that big impact at the end? The Reaper fleet not so much, since I have already seen the ME3 trailer. That spoiler in my Sheaprd vs. Hawke thread suggested the Illusive Man being indoctrinated but I haven't noticed any clue for that. Am I missing something?


 * All in all: _much_ better than DA2. More interesting and gripping quests, companions who do not like like caricatures of themselves (now, isn't it interesting that Tali can be cute even without biiig eyes and babbling like an idiot?), and a total badass hero. Not as deeply immersive as Origins, but still very gripping. - Definitely the best part of the DA2 edition :-) --Ygrain (talk) 12:52, September 21, 2011 (UTC)

Wouldn't that playthrough have been sooo much better if you hadn't seen the trailer for ME3? I honestly think so. Sure, you expect the Reapers to come sometime but to see them right there, by the numbers, is just jarring and exciting.

The Illusive Man/Cerberus being indoctrinated was revealed in a teaser somewhere in E3. I didn't have the energy to look for it, but the confirmation is on the ME wiki. Lancer cuts down speculation on the official posts faster than you can say 'sorry'. But...wait for it. XD

Shepard rallies the galaxy against a Reaper fleet. How awesome does that sound? How AWESOME does THAT sound? I'm really psyched about ME3. Can't wait.

Also, you going to give it another playthrough? Quirkynature (talk) 18:56, September 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well... since The Arrival makes it pretty clear that the Reapers are already on their way and the destruction of the base is really nothing that might stop them, the Harbinger says it all: "You've accomplished nothing." Shepard only acoomplished his personal goal of saving his crew and threw back the construction of a Human Reaper, but nothing he did in ME2 could have averted the invasion. I rather wonder, what the Reaper truly are and what their intentions are? The Geth call them "Old Machines", EDI says that they are part organic, part anorganic, and that the Reaper Larva is a part of their reproduction cycle - also, that they failed to make a Prothean Reaper. What makes the human race more convenient for making a Reaper than other? I noticed they mentioned something about a genetic diversity of the human race, which is basically nonsense, since the human race is genetically very uniform, due to a bottle-neck event in our history. To claim that humans are genetically more diverse would mean that the other races must have had an even closer bottle-neck event in their own histories. And WTH do they mean by that "salvation through destruction" part?


 * Another point of intrigue: why is Shepard so damn important that the Reapers want him so badly, and alive, if possible? Is there something so unique about his genes, or do they want to indoctrinate him and use as a weapon, or does it have anything in common with that Prothean transmission, which is probably stored somewhere in his mind?


 * Can't wait for ME3, either :-) - Luckily, I still have ME1 to go :D I'll take a little break from gaming, for a couple of weeks, since there is work piling up and I'd like to indulge in a couple fo hobbies again - writing, and also some crochetting or embroidery, my hands just ache to actually make something. Then there's still The Witcher, and Skyrim soon... Meaning, I probably won't be able to make a second playthrough. Besides, I really like _this_ particular Shepard and can't imagine making a new one. - Female Shep, maybe, but this one is just awesome ;-)


 * BTW, is it very different if you play as Paragon or Renegade? --Ygrain (talk) 10:05, September 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * True, Arrival is pretty much of a...I want to say spoiler but it's not the right word. :P


 * As to why Shepard is do damn important might be because he was central to the death of Sovereign, which might have piqued the interest of Harbinger and the other Reapers. Apart from that, it's just another question waiting to be answered.


 * I'm going to say good luck on your other hobbies; you said it yourself: you won't have too much time anyway. WarPaint endorsed Deus Ex: Human Revolution and I borrowed a friend's copy and it actually is pretty well made. Linear story, but still fun. Oh, did I interest you in that? And Skyrim, of course. I still haven't gotten around to finishing TW2's prologue. =\


 * Playing Paragon and Renegade are two very different playthroughs. For one, the choices you make have very different repercussions. BW said it themselves (the bastards): if you played a Paragon who was willing to help everyone, you might find yourself taken advantage of. If you played a Renegade who was only out for him/herself, you might not find people too helpful. Case in point: getting rid of the Krogan cure (if Wrex is dead) might make his brother unpliable to help against the reapers. But that's ME3.


 * In ME2, Renegade lines are actually pretty funny. Quirkynature (talk) 12:07, September 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * That's why I love to play a Paragon with a couple of Renegade actions :-) - In fact, that's what I did in Origins, as well: a little streak of darkness adds flavour to the guys in shiny mail.


 * BTW, what did you do with the Heretic Geth? It was quite a tough decision to make; in the end, I wiped them out.


 * Speaking of the Geth: I did some after-ending talking to the crew, to see the reactions and get conversation choices which I had not done yet, and I had that dialogue with Legion, concerning that part of Shepard's armour he patched himself with. I'm certainly not buying that "no data" answer, there must be more to it. Also, the Geth claim that they are interested in Shepard because he killed Sovereign - possibly confirming your theory that this might be a point of interest for the Reapers, as well. I don't think they are very accustomed to dying - or rather, being killed by an inferior being. --Ygrain (talk) 09:47, September 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * You...wiped the heretic Geth out? Why not rewrite them?! You need help against the Reapers, right? You just wiped out the only species that doesn't feel pain and can learn on the fly. :|


 * They're robots. Use them. If they rebel, well, there's always Legion to reason with, isn't there? Granted, my Shepard's Tali will be grumpy in the sack (I really want to see her face, though) because her home planet is still under Geth occupation, but in the face of a REAPER INVASION, I think petty differences can be cast aside and picked up later.


 * Ah, Ygrain, why'd you off the Geth? I thought that was one of the simplest decisions to make. What to do with the Krogan cure was hardest for me. That and choosing between Tali and Miranda. Ashley and Liara never held any interest for me. Now, if Morrigan had been there...


 * As for Reapers, well, did you see the trailer for ME3? Of course you did. Shepard fights a Reaper in a Warthog (Halo reference lol) with a mounted gun. Awesome. Also, Shepard fights a Reaper. Awesome.


 * Ygrain, I think you're responsible for my yettanother playthrough of ME2. I sincerely thank you. Quirkynature (talk) 23:17, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

Well, it was a similar kind of decision as with the genophage, where I favoured the pro-krogan choice, so you could say I maintained balance :-) - Seriously: the problem with the Geth is that the whole race can turn against you in a single instant if someone rewrites them. Now, if the Reapers rewrite them, and they sure possess a technology to do so, I'll have only half the Geth to deal with. - What did you do with the Krogan?

Tali and Miranda? What, no appeal in beautiful eyes and a shaved head? :-))

Concerning Ashley, I watched some vids yesterday and she's definitely the least attractive companion ever. It was also disappointing that they used the same sequence for Ashley and Liara - though a pretty one ;-) --Ygrain (talk) 04:32, September 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * As for the Geth, after rewriting them and making them aware of the Reaper virus, they should have learned from it and blocked that particular loophole. Also, potential allies against them Reapers!!


 * As for the Krogan...what Krogan? Any specific one? I left no hostile behind me alive. Evar. Although I saved the genophage data in hopes of curing them (and securing Wrex's loyalty MUHAHAHAHA).


 * For the first five or so playthroughs I had absolutely no interest in Jack--the shaved head and tattoos tend to cool me off personally. It was only when I finally looked at her page on the ME Wiki did I realize how wrong (oh, how wrong!) I was. Jacqueline Nought is actually a very deep character!! OMG OMG OMG that is a very good example of how well ME2 is made. Still, I prefer Tali. Or Miranda.


 * Ash is definitely under-developed, and the news that she's been made a Spectre is even more surprising given the fact that no more details were released (ME3, maybe?). Besides, given a choice between Ash and Liara...I wouldn't pick. LOL in my first playthrough of ME, I didn't pick. When I continued that into ME2, I realized I did a good thing. Caught me off-guard, but it was a 'lolhaxx0r!!1!11' moment.


 * Isn't Renegade fun? Quirkynature (talk) 18:10, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

I finally found the time to watch the vid ;-) - Yeah, definitely fun, and some lines and scenes are those I used myself, as I simply could not resist the temptation when that red mouse icon appeared on the screen. One of the first Renegade actions I took was when talking to that reporter - now, I was somewhat shocked to see Shep punch a lady and pondered whether I should load the save and play it again the "good" way but then I decided not to - everyone should be entitled to lose their patience every now and then :-) I had very little idea who the bitch was, but remembering the reporters from Babylon 5, I just shrugged and thought it well justified :D --Ygrain (talk) 15:55, September 30, 2011 (UTC)

Fanfic
Hey, I checked out your profile on FanFiction.net, and I have to say that I'm staggered! I've only read Ashes and Embers so far, but I was enraptured. You're very talented and I can't wait till I get a chance to read your other stuff! 21:32, September 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh, thank you! I just hope you won't be disappointed by the rest :-) --Ygrain (talk) 10:07, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

Re: Dragondance
I've been busy in the past month and haven't had much time for reading, so I haven't read that yet. I'd be more than happy to discuss anything up to the wedding at the Twins in ASoS though :) 17:12, September 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * Eh. There are certainly quite a couple of points for discussion, I'm just afraid not to give you spoilers, since I don't recall exactly what was in which book. So, what's on your mind? :-) --Ygrain (talk) 16:36, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

Heh. How about we start on neutral territory: Jon Snow's mother. 16:50, September 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, there were some hints further on, but nothing that would contradict - or support - my theory on Lyanna Stark, by Prince Raeghar. - And if I'm wrong, I'd very much like to know why Raeghar left his mistress so heavily guarded and what was that supersecret that Ned promised her on her deathbed, as well as what she actually died of. --Ygrain (talk) 16:56, September 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm fond of that theory too. Plus (correct me if I'm wrong), Ned never says that Jon is his son, only that he has his blood. Tell you what, this could become quite lengthy, so if you like, you can e-mail me here. 17:02, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

Worshipping, rolling heads and other miscellaneous stuff
"Mist of time". I really like that phrase. I really, really like that phrase (cue infinite worship).

Unfortunately, yes, BW or EA cannot serve us fans Laidlaw's head on a (preferably golden) platter although that might be classified as fanservice. Besides, company loyalty and whatnot come into play. Shame, really. I'd have had a field day with Laidlaw's head.

As for you being on my worship person's list, yes'm. I don't see why not. Unfortunately, a lot of my heroes have left the wiki/are on hiatus. Another shame, really.

I've read A Game of Thrones. It started very nicely (with the Others and the direwolves) but digressed into angst territory rather quickly. I read a few spoilers into Feasting Crows and all I could think of was "wtf?!" so now I'm on the fence. Although from what I can tell, Martin's taken 'Might is Right' and based his world on it. It follows, then, that there isn't an overarching plot (a la The Legend of Drizzt) but actions and consequences that play out over the books.

Of course, I could be wrong.

But, two questions:

1) What was Lyanna's request? Is that revealed? Obviously, I'm digging for spoilers. If you think it's big, don't tell me. I've killed half the series for myself as it is by Wiking tons of stuff. Not exaggerated, btw.

2) Who is Jon Snow's mother? Can't be Lyanna, that's for sure because the chronology is off and his mother's name is specifically mentioned in A Game of Thrones by Eddard brusquely.

I read LotR on your recommendation and enjoyed it (much to my surprise). So, should I keep at ASOIAF? Does it get better? Does it get interesting? Quirkynature (talk) 18:24, October 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh, there is an overarching story. It's just so damn big that it gets obscured by all the various PoVs. The whole thing is dauntingly big, and looooong. By the end of the Dragondance, I'd say that the plot is a third- to mid- through. And still keeping me intrigued, and not just because of the huge cliffy at the end.


 * Also, "viewers and fans of Myth Arc-laden and/or carefully written shows and books have become accustomed to obsessing over minuscule details" is dead right. I'm re-reading the series now, paying attention to dreams, prophecies, hints and bits of information on history, since they do relate, and many start to make sense (or so I think) in retrospect.


 * All in all, should you pick up reading? If you are patient, don't mind following personal stories even though their significance for the main plot may not be clear for the time being, then, yes. Because, you will get your direwolves and Others, eventually :-) And, the characters are exceptionally well written. I never believed I could actually find something to relate to, or even like, with Jaime Lannister, but it happened. Also, unlike in lots of fantasy or "historical" books, the various cultures encountered in the books have the realistic feel, based on, as I suspect, a profound knowledge of their real-world counterparts. ASOIAF stands very high on my personal lists of preferred books but I wouldn't say it is an easy read, or for everyone.


 * Concerning your questions, nothing major has been revealed yet. There have been some hints that Lyanna's supposed abduction by Raeghar was, in fact, rather Lyanna falling for Raeghar and becoming his mistress more than voluntarily, which is kind of tragic, given the consequences. - BTW, why do you think that Lyanna cannot be Jon's mother? What's there not fitting about the chronology? Jon is fourteen. Lyanna died fourteen years ago. Lord Stark is sorry for some fourteen-year-old lies. Stating a female name to Robert's request means really nothing, since if the child was really Lyanna's and by Raeghar, it's definitely something Robert should never know.--Ygrain (talk) 20:36, October 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * All right, Ygrain, based on your suggestion, I'll keep with it and start Clash of Kings tomorrow. Patience isn't an issue, because I'm following Jon Snow rather closely. Him I haven't looked up at all.


 * Getting direwolves seems bleak primarily because Lady is dead and Nymeria is 'freed'. I know what'll happens to Grey Wind. That leaves Summer, Shaggydog and Ghost. This made me sad. Also, f**k Theon Greyjoy for betraying the Starks. I didn't read the spoilers after that. F**k me for reading spoilers. =\


 * I don't think Lyanna is Jon Snow's mother because Jon Snow was supposedly birthed during the war and nowhere near Lyanna. I think. Besides, wouldn't Eddard have told Catelyn when she asked? Robert shouldn't know, agreed, but Catelyn? She definitely should.


 * Also, dragons. *drool* Quirkynature (talk) 21:04, October 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * Alright, but don't blame me if you don't like it! - But I think you will - besides killing off the good guys, Martin pays an equal share of attention to the bad ones. The Fate is best served cold.


 * There is no exact or reliable info on Jon's birthplace or date of birth; with Lyanna dying soon after then end of the war, the option is not ruled out. You have a point with Catelyn, though - given how much they loved each other, it is more than peculiar that Ned never told her, unless there was some really ugly personal secret behind it, which I don't think probable - or he had sworn not to /wink wink/.--Ygrain (talk) 21:16, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sworn not to? You think Jaime and Cersei got their inspiration from Ned and Lyanna? :|


 * Ygain, I am disappoint.


 * I'll give ASOIAF a fair shake. It's the least I can do. So far, I'm not recommending it because it's not very high up on my list (although Jon Snow is a compelling character--if slightly clichéd). Quirkynature (talk) 21:27, October 10, 2011 (UTC)

Uh-oh. Either I'm misreading you, or there is some other misconception about Jon's conception. When I claimed that Lyanna was mother, I never implied Ned as father. If I'm not mistaken, Ned reached Lyanna ("on her bloody bed", which IMHO is supposed to hint at delivery as a cause of her death) only after the Targaryens were defeated and killed, so by that time she already knew that her child would not live long, had his descent become known, and her last wish to Ned was to keep her son secret and safe. In order to avoid suspicion, he proclaimed the child as his own. --Ygrain (talk) 14:54, October 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * I should feel cautious of Tyrion, but he doesn't seem to be a true Lannister (I'll die in my sleep for that comment).


 * Sansa Stark I was disgusted of in the first book but now I pity her. As for Sandor Clegane...what is he up to?


 * I'm currently following Prince Theon as he woos Esgred, the shipwright's wife.


 * So far so good, although I don't see the 'overarching plot' yet... Quirkynature (talk) 23:38, October 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * So Esgred was...wow. I can't even begin to imagine how dumb Greyjoy must feel. He's not a Greyjoy, not anymore, but he isn't a Stark either. I don't think he'll be accepted anywhere now. Especially since his lord father trusts to his brothers and daughter more than his son. But why do I get that sinking feeling he's going to get into trouble.


 * As for Shae with Tyrion, I'm willing to bet she's a spy/working for Tywin Lannister or Cersei. Maybe even Varys. Pycelle meeting Shagga son of Dolf was an lol moment. I'm starting to like Tyrion, much to my chagrin, because I know he's a Lannister. But he's Jon Snow's friend, so...


 * I might soon see what you meant when you said I'd see my others and direwolves. There's hints that the Others deal with that madman in the North, and Bran's been told he needs to get out of Winterfell with Summer. Shaggy and Rickon have been sidelined for now, it seems. I don't like Rickon much, ever since he showed the Walders the Stark crypt. I agree with Bran; it's a Stark crypt and no place for anybody else.


 * If I'm constantly updating this, it'll be a mess. I think I'll update if I get to anything major...so I'll update after every chapter with Tyrion, shall I? Quirkynature (talk) 15:02, October 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh, a PS, for some reason whenever I try to visualize Catelyn Stark I get Meredith in my head. The voice, I think, fits. Quirkynature (talk) 19:16, October 14, 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome to update as frequently as you wish :-) Unfortunately, the RL sucks at the moment and I'm snowed with work, so I might take long to respond :-((

I'm glad that you're coming to appreciate the book - now, how mean of me, to have goaded you into this just to have another person to discuss it with :-)) --Ygrain (talk) 09:12, October 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * OH MY GOD! You...you mindgamed me into reading the books!! Ygrain, you are as devious as Tywin and as cunning as...I'm tempted to say Tyrion but I think that falls short of the mark (lol see what I did there?).


 * As for updating this regularly, you WILL become swamped on this, too, with a long thread-esque thing with only my posts and your occasional replies.


 * As for getting swamped at work, it's midterm season, innit? I sympathize. Don't worry about replying; I sometimes write out random stuff on a notepad file and then delete it. This way, at least it'll stick for a while (see what I did there again?)


 * Kthnxbai. 72.229.61.238 (talk) 17:58, October 15, 2011 (UTC)

Didn´t get the second pun :(

Don´t worry about Tyrion, I like him, too - he is an intriguing character, very vivid, and there are a couple of things about him that keep me wondering. Isn´t it great how Martin is able to take a person from the enemy camp and make him likeable?

Not really fond of Rickon, either, though at four, it is difficult to assess what kind of character he is going to be - judging by Shaggy, very fierce, probably? A family trait we haven´t seen in the Starks yet, though it is mentioned in connection with Brandon and Lyanna. Bran is right about the crypt, but I think that not understanding the significance of the place can be understood with a four-year-old.

Concerning Theon - "But why do I get that sinking feeling he's going to get into trouble." Because he is? The thing with the book is that mistakes, and especially those out of naivity, have a tendency of coming back and biting the characters in the ass, and often even those around. Sansa is another shining example, and Ned, as well, to some extent. It was so incredibly painful, to read the last chapters of his and him.

Catelyn as Meredith? /gasp/ That´s... devious. --Ygrain (talk) 05:01, October 16, 2011 (UTC)

I finished A Clash of Kings and am 2/5th through A Storm of Swords. I never thought I'd feel sorry for Jaime Lannister after what he did, but I do. And Jon Snow is lucky as all hell Summer didn't OHKO him. Maybe Summer recognized him? A lingering scent of Ghost on his person? BTW, Jon Snow isn't in A Feast for Crows. W. T. F. WTF. W the Fing F.

Delving head-on!! Quirkynature (talk) 20:17, October 21, 2011 (UTC)

The Red Wedding. Goddamn Freys. Goddamn Boltons. The Stark family's been scattered in the wind. And Tywin Lannister has the gall to refer to Eddard as 'Ned'. Martin's made a great world but I hate the world with everything I have. In all this, it seems like Sandor Clegane and Tyrion Lannister are the only good folk--and they look like stereotypical monsters.

Goddamn Freys. Goddamn Boltons. Goddamn Lannisters. Goddamn cowards. And the 'final insult' the Freys did to the Starks by sewing Grey Wind's head onto Robb's body seems more like a compliment to me. The King in the North was also the Young Wolf. They feared him so much they had to resort to the lion's protection. Bolton's already the Lord of Leeches and Frey...goddamn Frey. Goddamn Walter Frey. Ygrain, this was a devious plot. A very devious plot. I disapprove </3 -50. Quirkynature (talk) 02:56, October 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * As for Jon WTF, just wait for the Dragondance. Now, _there's_ a WTF that will make you want to throttle Martin.


 * LOL, I can assure you that you are not the only one starting to sympathize with Jaime. Funny that one has to lose a hand to gain a heart, no? I wonder very much what Martin has in store for him.


 * The Red Wedding... that was devastating to read. I'm _not_ looking forward to re-reading this part. What keeps me up is the hope that Martin has something in store for _everyone_, and he seems to be dealing the fates in a way of the pendulum. Razor-sharp. May the Freys get under it soon! - BTW, the Frey weasel, with his pride in his progeny, strongly reminds me of the Greek myth of Niobe, who took such a pride in her seven sons and daughters that she offended gods, who in turn killed off _all_ the children. I'd be _very_ surprised if Martin was not familiar with it, and I can't get rid of the gnawing suspicion that he will incorporate it, somehow. I sure won't be shedding any tears over them. And the Boltons - I can't think of an appropriately nasty end for them. Somehow, they manage to be worse even than Howe.


 * - But you still seem to be enjoying your reading, no? :-) --Ygrain (talk) 05:25, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

There's worse for Jon? If Jon dies, Martin will be hearing from me, I swear it. When is the next coming out? I'm already halfway through SoS.

When Jaime Lannister rescued Brienne of Tarth from Vargo, the line before the chapter ended caught me entirely off guard. 'Japes came to his head, each crueler than the last but all he said was "I dreamed of you".' I re-read that several times just to be sure I'd read that right.

The Red Wedding was hell to read. It wasn't as hard as reading Catti-Brie and Regis dying in the Drizzt series (because I've known those characters the longest), but it was definitely a very, very close second. What the Freys did was murder and desecrated the oldest tradition of guests. There has to be repercussions of that. Actually, Joffrey was the first, I think. That chapter would have been a rather pleasant read if not for the fact that Tyrion Lannister (who I staunchly believe is a good guy) was humiliated and Sansa (Martin better marry her to Loras Tyrell...her chapters are now a cruel read) is half numb with grief and I don't know what else. And she's only thirteen. At least Theon Greyjoy is suffering nicely. Flayed alive. Suits him (see what I did there?). I have a feeling that since Sansa has no direwolf, she has much worse to suffer. Does she die? Suicide? I wouldn't be surprised.

What the Howes did isn't as abominable as what the Freys did. I hope there's a House Brienne later. There probably won't be because that's not how Martin's world rolls, but a man can hope. The Boltons better meet a very visceral end. Setting Gregor Clegane seems almost kind on them. Maybe Biter.

It seems to me there is something to Melisandre. Dark magics and darker prophecies (two of the three kings had grisly endings). Why do I have a feeling she will end up with Jon Snow? There's too many references to Ice and Fire, and what better than to literally put them together? Ice (Snow) and Fire (Melisandre). Not to mention the greatsword Ice (literal) was melted to make new swords for Lannisters (crimson being a pithy comparison to Fire...bastards all except Tyrion and maybe Jaime).

If Daenerys attacks Westeros, would you side with her? I...might. Purely because Emilia Clarke is very pretty. Barristan the bold is on her side. She can't lose now. That was a 'boom! headshot' moment. Took me entirely off-guard although I should have seen that coming when Renly asked Catelyn about him "he's vanished from King's Landing, hasn't been reported in Stannis' company or mine, so I thought he might have joined the Young Wolf". Or something to that extent.

Am I enjoying it? I don't know. I'm still following it with a passion bordering on obsession (I dream ASOIAF now which is a bad sign). Enjoying it? I don't know. Not yet. Chapters of Jaime, yes. Quirkynature (talk) 00:00, October 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * I finished Storm of Swords but haven't quite gotten far in Feast for Crows. It really is a bleak world now. And Martin doesn't say how much time has passed except through events, so all I know is it's been a year and half since Game of Thrones.


 * Hmm. Quirkynature (talk) 08:25, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Oops, been behind with responding :o Really don't know when the next sequel is due but definitely not soon enough. With Dragondance being quite fresh... a year, maybe?

The way the Freys broke and betrayed the tradition of guest rights cannot go unpunished, and for all Lord Frey's cunning, I don't think he has taken into account all the consequences. The civil war cannot go on forever - and once the situation comes back to normal, Freys will be despised for their treachery wide and far. Sooner or later, it _will_ break their necks.

Good news - Sansa is not dead (yet), and probably going up after having touched the bottom, though this can hardly be claimed for sure. - BTW, I am quite surprised how she never realizes that it was her own folly that brought about her father's fall, and knowing Martin, I wonder if someone might play this card against her in the future.

Melisandre is definitely up to no good, and if there ever was an abomination to be put to the torch, that would be her. However, I don't think that _she_ is the Fire to be paired with Jon, my bets lie with Dany. And, while Dany may be dreaming of invasion, I think she may, in fact, come back as a liberator. - As for Barristan, I didn't expect that, either, I sort of never thought him to be an important player. But I am glad for him, and for Dany, he seems an honourable man.

I'm half-way through the Clash of Kings now, and the more I read, the more I see a certain vague similarity between Ned Stark and Robert and Warden and Alistair (unhardened). All those various hints at the course of Robert's rebellion: Ned Stark broke the siege of Storm's End. He besieged King's Landing (and kicked Jaime's ass off the Iron Throne). He fought and survived against Raeghar's knights. He was the voice of reason that steered Robert's actions. - Somehow, I'm getting the feeling that without Ned, Robert would have met an early and nasty end. As for Alistair's similarity to Robert - now, once I read a fic where Alistair ended up an alcoholic as Anora's husband, and since she and Cersei have many traits in common, the scenario is chillingly plausible. - Don't get me wrong, I'm an Alistair fan, but I'm no way blind to his faults and there are certainly things he wouldn't be able to stand up to.

Bleak... yes, that's the word. Still can't stop reading, though - right? :) --Ygrain (talk) 15:25, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Tywin Lannister's death was lulzy. "Tywin Lannister did not, in the end, shit gold." I'm a staunch Tyrion supporter now. Keep in mind Sansa is still Tyrion's wife. I'm one-fourth through Crows (work avalanche suddenly) but whatever plan Littlefinger (little bastard, more like) has for her can't be good. Including all the kissing and fondling.

As for Eddard's death being Sansa's fault...partially, sure, but fully? I doubt it. Littlefinger and Cersei had a big part to play in that--Cersei more so as she was directly involved with Robert's death. If Robert had been alive, or even coherent, Eddard would never have even been confined to the dungeons, much less executed. Robert was a fool, but a loyal fool.

You...want to kill Melisandre? True, every decently attractive person (except the Starks...and apparently Jaime Lannister) is villainous, but I don't see Melisandre so much dangerous as zealous. Sure, that can be bad but Lord Snow can handle her. He has to. It was honorable of him not to accept Stannis' exchange, though. Surrender the Night's Watch and be crowned Lord of Winterfell. Of course that means he's going to meet with a grisly ending, with what Janos Slynt and Alliser Thorne present. Thorne already bears him a grudge and Slynt is just a prick. Marsh (or the steward before Jon and Sam came into play) seems to have a chip on his shoulder, too. Back to the topic: I seriously hope Melisandre isn't a zealous Cersei.

I don't see Dany as a liberator at all. Conqueror. She's been dreaming of it since Khal Drogo's death. Although Joffrey was insane (I sure hope so), I doubt the realm has forgotten the insanity of Aerys the Mad. By the stories of Barristan the Bold and flashbacks by Jaime Lannister, I'd have liked if Martin had introduced us to Rhaegar Tagaryen. He seems like he would have been a good king. But why kidnap and rape Lyanna, then, and have knights guard her during the invasion? That seems contradictory, even by Martin's standards. At least without a reason. Visible or discernible. And by the story Meera told Bran, it seems Lyanna wasn't a wallflower. She couldn't match Rhaegar in combat but...things just don't add up, I guess.

Robert=Warden=Ned=Alistair? No. Way. Robert=Oghren. Ned=...I'm tempted to say Hawke, but that doesn't fit. Ned=Carth Onasi (IDK if you played KotOR). And Anora won't equal Cersei. Thedas is much, much more forgiving than Westeros. Anora, I think, would have warmed to Alistair eventually. Even a bastard, he is still of royal blood. At least in my playthroughs I see Anora as honorable and...sane. Unlike Cersei. Crazy, beautiful bitch. You know, Westeros is a twisted mockery of Earth, IMO. In a way. I can't explain it fully, but there it is.

I can't stop reading, true, but it's a very heavy read. Fantasy, in general, I guess isn't anymore. For some reason, every fantasy writer takes every dark theme, meme and TV trope and fits it into the book, or tries. It looks like if I want some light fantasy reading I'll be forced to look up fairy tales. That's a sad commentary in and of itself (I always wanted to say that). XD Quirkynature (talk) 17:45, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, despite the time and circumstances, Tywin's demise was one of the bright moments. SPOILER: another nice moment ahead in Dragondance ;-)

Littlefinger definitely had an obsession for Catelyn - I believe that meeting her after her resurrection and getting his due from her own hands would be a fitting end for him. - However, a lot still remains unclear: _he_ was the one responsible for sparkling the strife between the Starks and Lannisters, by claiming that the dagger of Bran's would-be assassin was Tyrion's, which was a lie. Would he have betrayed Ned anyway, since his cooperation was crucial, or did he change sides when Cersei learned a part of Ned's plans from Sansa? - This is where, IMHO, her guilt lies: she had no idea what her indiscretion would cause, but the truth remains that her action alerted Cersei and prompted her to act. It is well possible that Ned was doomed from the very beginning, that Littlefinger never intended to help him (as well as the fact that he - Ned - would have probably died, anyway, since as I'm reading the hints at the condition of his broken leg, he was most probably developing sepsis).

Melisandre - I believe that both her _and_ her god are evil, no matter what she may claim or believe. Conceiving shadows to murder people and resurrecting the dead the way it is done - oh, s***, I've just realized something. I hope you catch up soon, there are lots of wild theories to spin :D. - Anyway, these are _not_ acts of good. The woman gives me creeps.

Jeoffrey was a charming little psychopath - now, Aerys would have _loved_ such a son. However, I'm not really sure if you're right in your assessment of Aerys' popularity: just today, I read that part about the riot in King's Landing, and it seems that the commonfolk hate the Lannisters and think quite fondly of "good ol' times" of Aerys' rule. You know, there was stability in the land, and if the king's excesses were mostly limited to the opposing noblemen, commonners needn't even notice that something was wrong. Besides, it's been quite some time ago, and old atrocities tend to be overshadowed by the recent ones. In the country torn and bleeding by the civil war, possibly also threatened by Others when the winter finally comes, someone like Daenerys might be perceived as not only liberator but right away saviour (and here I bet that dragonfire, or weapons forged in it, if such a thing is possible, will be _very_ efficient against Others).

I totally agree with your assessment of Raeghar, and the discrepancy between his reputation and the abduction and rape of Lyanna seems... weird. Unless, which is what I suppose, this is not what really happened. If I'm not mistaken, Ned never says this, Robert does - but how does he know? Brandon and Lord Rickard, who may have known what really happened, died soon afterwards. What if Raeghar's crime was not rape but seduction of a more than willing Lyanna? Would a hot-head of a brother even believe that his sister stained the family honour so? And what would they tell her betrothed - sorry, your fiancée ran away with the prince? I believe there are pieces of the puzzle which we don't know yet. Ned is sorry about some fourteen- year-old lies - plural.

I'm not claiming that Thedas and Westeros are 100% equivalents, just that I see a similarity, or a pattern. And, since Anora is one of the villains in my playthrough, the similarity to Cersei seems more prominent :-)

Fairy tales as light fantasy? You sure? I could come up with quite a few that are pretty dark and morbid ;-)--Ygrain (talk) 19:33, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Something's up ahead in dragondance? Since you seem happy about it, I'm guessing it has to do with the Lannisters. Jaime is a good guy, Tyrion is a--oh. Cersei dies. Payback to the bitch. :) You made my day.

As for the undead Catelyn, she can't speak anymore. At least I haven't gotten there yet. But from what I made out, Lord Beric is certainly dead, as is his cleric (level 80, was it?). Littlefinger seems to have his own issues in the Eyrie as of now, with what the people there starting to oppose his rule. No doubt there'll be a twist there that puts him in the strongest position. I wonder how/when he suddenly became oh-so-cunning. Was that before or after he got handily beat by Brandon? Or was he so always? If so, how come Lord Tully didn't see his potential and marry him to Lysa or Cat and gain massive moneys?

So far, Melisandre hasn't resurrected anybody. Does she? I guess you could link her name to the "Is Blood Magic in Thedas bad or not" thread and have the same argument. I still say she isn't inherently evil, just zealous. "Magic exists to serve man and never--" oh, wait, wrong media. As for acts of good, I don't think the undead Catelyn Stark intends to be 'good'. I daresay she's had quite enough of Lannisters, Freys and Boltons. Any families I missed? Add 'em in! Bloodbath for all! Or so I hope.

Good point. Daenerys might be seen as a liberator. At least her dragons will come in handy. But something Ser Jorah said intrigues me. The Targaryen sigil is a three headed dragon. There are three dragons, one for each Targaryen. Daenerys gets one. Will Maester Aemon live long enough for the second? I don't think so. Martin has already hinted there are two other Targaryens out there. Or am I reading too much into this?

As for dragonfire forged weapons--obsidian, wasn't it? Sam the Slayer. It's a worthy title, even if he is being mocked. For a self-proclaimed craven, he killed an Other. Go Sam. Huzzah.

Robert says Rhaegar didn't kidnap Lyanna? I don't remember reading that. Where'd that happen? If it was in Game of Thrones, I might have skipped it; I wasn't that riveted back then. Now I tend to reread chapters 'just because'. Ned's lies don't mean anything because he's dead. Whatever secret he had died with him. Jon Snow is definitely Ned's son because that's been referenced too many times and stated, too, that he had Eddard's looks. The only 16 year old vengeance nursed was by the Tyrells for Gregor Clegane's head--and he just died, so that's over with. The Starks have been scattered, their secrets too. Whatever secret Eddard obsessed over is long gone. That's a stupid line of thought because I KNOW deep down it's going to be a story breaker. Dang, Martin's good.

I'm talking Looney Tunes and Tom and Jerry light fantasy. Don't you get tired of dark and broody fantasy? Every author these days wants to delve deeper into how dark you can make it. There's no way anybody can top Martin, but they all keep trying anyway. And, no, that wasn't a challenge to list dark fairy tales. On second thought, go ahead. Dazzle me. Quirkynature (talk) 14:43, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry to disappoint, Cersei still lives, but yeah, she did have her moment, and a long one. I was referring to yet another treat, very Stark.

Littlefinger was a young boy back then, of a totally unimportant family, so little wonder the great Lord Tully didn't see him as a potential suitor.

Yeah, the three-headed dragon is a puzzle in itself. Dany is no. 1 for sure, I place my ebts on Jon as no. 2, and, guess what? I have a superwild theory for no. 3, which I cannot tell you yet, or should I? It's no major spoiler plot-wise, just connecting a couple of facts here and there, out of which one happens to be in Dragondance. - Meaning, no, Maester Aemon is not on the list.

Sam is a favourite character of mine. There is so much he has to overcome, yet he goes on and finds courage in the depths he didn't know himself he possessed. A loyal and trustworthy friend, ready to face just about anything for the sake of friendship - I value such people highly. - Actually, the very reason why I like Alistair so much.

No, no, Robert _did_ say that thing about rape - but the young Targaryens nurse a story how their brother died for the woman he loved (which, by Targaryen standards, does not directly exclude rape, but does at least hint that there might be two versions of the story). And you're wrong about the secrets dying with Ned: Howland Reed (the father of Jojen and Meera) was there with him when he finally got to Lyanna (and if my version of events is correct, then Howland would know if Ned turned up with a newborn babe in his arms). As to Jon being Ned's son because that's what everyone says - well, everyone repeats what Ned publically acknowledged himself. Note, please, that in _none_ of Ned chapters, he ever refers to Jon as his son. As for the Stark looks - hey, these may come from mother, as well.

Tired of dark and broody fantasy? Considering the way I'm writing the Awakening, not really :D And if you want a fairy tale list - hm, let me think: is the Hans Christian Andersen collection of folk and fairy tales read around where you live? It's a pretty safe guess that wherever you open the book, there will be something dark and morbid.--Ygrain (talk) 15:16, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Continuing ASOIAF because the last section is worth archiving :|
Another treat, very Stark. Bran? Rickon! There hasn't been a PoV of Rickon! And Osha! Wait. I have to wait till Dragondance to find out what happens to Rickon and/or Osha? o_O

Jon Snow being #2 for a dragon...I wouldn't take that bet. He isn't a Targaryen. He's a Stark. Or is he the result of Rhaegar raping Lyanna? No, the timeline doesn't add up. Was it 9 months? Did Rhaegar rape Lyanna? Or was that Robert's hatred talking? From Jaime Lannister's PoV, Rhaegar would have been a perfectly likable king. What's your reasoning for making Snow #2?

I'm sorry Aemon doesn't make it to Dragondance. He seems nice, for a Targaryen. A tame Gandalf, I'd say. More Wynne than Gandalf. Yes, definitely more Wynne. Dang. I guess I'm reinstalling Origins. As for #3, gimme the spoiler. As long as it isn't a haxx0r plot twist, I won't hold it against you. Go right ahead.

Was it Howland Reed present with Eddard Stark? I don't remember. I do have a feeling Bran has a crush on Meera, though. It's to be expected, of course, seeing as how she's the only girl around and his hormones will be acting up soon, but...it's Bran! I have that feeling Jojen's going to die soon. He's been--who the hell is that guy who helped Bran's company beyond the wall?! Could that be Benjen Stark? Have we discussed this already? I'm getting confused. Whatever happened to Benjen? Is THAT the Stark spoiler in Dragondance? Who is this crow who came to Bran? And why Bran? Why not Robb? Or Arya? Guide dang it. Whatever happened to the Reeds anyway? Who do they owe allegiance to? Theon is dead, so that's the end of Greyjoy rule in the North. And Winterfell is razed. Bolton? Frey?

Ever read Artemis Fowl? Now that's a dark, dark series. Quirkynature (talk) 03:19, November 3, 2011 (UTC)

Lol! No, you're getting it wrong, there's no Rickon PoV, but wait, you'll love it. Sweet vengeance!

Haven't we been through this? - Oh, never mind, I never tire of explaining my favourite theories :-)

I guess I could split my reasoning into two parts:

1) why I think that Jon is not Ned's son: As I said just previously, Ned himself never calls him so, nor refers to him as "my son" in his inner monologues. Next, even though there are at least two possible candidates for Jon's mother (Ashara Dayne, who, according to what Jojen and Meera tell Bran, had a mutual crush on Ned, and one Wylla – referenced further, but not much, in Dragondance), Ned never tells his wife nor Jon, even though it is obvious that he loves - and trusts – his family. Why, if the gossip is already freely circulating? A possible explanation would be that Ned, as a very principled man, does not want to lie to them, and for some reason, cannot tell the truth. – Which brings me to

2) why I think Jon is the son of Lyanna and Raeghar: If I take 1) as valid, then whose son might Jon be? He has the Stark looks, which limits his descent to the family. Ned loved his family very much and he would definitely be willing to compromise his own honour to cover up theirs. Benjen was too young at that time, there is absolutely no information about Lord Rickard’s potential affairs, which leaves Brandon and Lyanna. Again, there is very little on Brandon (in fact, the only mention about his love interests comes in Dragondance, and definitely has nothing to do with Jon), which leaves only Lyanna. Con or non-con, she had sex with Raeghar, and she died on “blood bed” – a term used several times in the series to refer to childbirth. The close term of delivery would then be the reason why Raeghar assigned five knights to guard her: to protect a newborn prince of Targaryen blood. If this assumption is right, it would be essential to keep the child’s identity secret: with Raeghar dead and his children by Elia murdered, there is no doubt that Lyanna’s child would meet the same fate. The logical conclusion then would be that the promise she asked of Ned on her deathbed was to take care of her son and keep him safe. The easiest way to achieve this would be to pass the child off as his own, and let people supply the known bedpartners as the mother (yet another wild theory spinning here, but since it’s plot-related, I’ll leave it till you have read Dragondance.)

Of course, these are speculations based on hints; there are but two solid facts: the highly principled Lord Stark lied about something that concerned his family (and Robert ) and it happened fourteen years ago, which coincides with the war and Jon’s birth, and gave his sister a solemn promise on her deathbed. Whatever either of these was, it must have been big. Ned wouldn’t have lied without a profound reason, and an oath to a dying, and beloved, sister was not a thing he would have taken lightly. Then, another fact, if you want, is that the past keeps recurring in various hints to Raeghar and/or Lyanna. From the point of storytelling, this can’t be just accidental. Something happened back there, and the truth is only slowly unfolding. Yeah, and Howland Reed was there with Ned when he went for Lyanna – he was the only of Ned’s companions to survive the fight with the Knights of the Guard. That’s why I assume he might know the truth. And, why do you say that the timeline is off? Is the timeline even mentioned anywhere? Besides, the rebellion needn’t have lasted nine months; it would have been sufficient if it was at least nine months after that tournament where Raeghar crowned Lyanna the Queen of Love and Beauty

Absolutely no word of Benjen so far, though I do think there will be an explanation. I was also wondering if he might be the one who saved Bran, but it is not revealed, and remember what cold black hands mean :-(

My wild theory about the 3rd dragon? Well, hold onto your seat… Tyrion. It is said in Dragondance that King Aerys had a big crush on Joanna Lannister. Tyrion has _very_ pale hair, not the Lannister gold but lighter. Aerys had a brother called Duncan the Small – now, the reason for the nickname is not explained but it could be that he truly was shorter than the average, due to some genetic disorder (which could only be expected in an interbreeding family). Tywin says at one occasion that he trusted his wife’s honour, but if Aerys forced her, it wouldn’t be a stain on _her_ honour, right? – BTW, why did the Lannisters support Robert against Aerys? I can’t remember. Plus, what I find strange is that one as pragmatic, capable and intelligent as Lord Tywin keeps overlooking Tyrion’s potential. Surely, being a dwarf and the cause of the death of the beloved wife are both reasons enough to be hated and despised by one’s own father, yet I find it strange that Tywin would be so blinded by his emotions. Well, of course, this is much wilder, and even less fact-based that the Lyanna-Raeghar theory. I just think that this hypothetical third dragon has been referenced so many times that there _must_ be a living person, and again, from the point of the storytelling, this should be an important character introduced early in the series, and I can’t think of any that would be in any way connected with the Targaryens. What’s your guess?

Haven’t read Artemis Fowl, should I? --Ygrain (talk) 13:06, November 3, 2011 (UTC)

I was on the subway yesterday (and not sleeping for once) and I picked up Feast again. I read Cersei's chapter, and then got onto Alayne. I remember thinking 'who is Alayne, and why does this name sound like it should mean something?' Thinking it must be something to do with the kingsmoot lead by Damphair (interesting that the Drowned God doesn't support Crow's Eye), I started skimming the chapter. And when I read over the word 'Vale' I stopped, doubled back and read the chapter carefully.

Sansa Stark.

Alayne is Sansa Stark. She's forgetting who she is. And Arya of House Stark with the Faceless Men of Braavos (valar morgulis, Ygrain) clings to her heritage. That was clever, albeit clichéd. Still, it managed to catch me off-guard. And that remark "Are you a Corbray or a Frey" made me chuckle. Goddamn Freys. And there's another comment by Cersei, I think, "We should learn from the Young Wolf, who won every battle but lost it all". In retrospect, I miss Robb Stark. At least he might Jeyne Westerling pregnant and his son/daughter will reclaim Stark glory and lands in his dead father's name.

As for the third dragon...Tyrion? Surely you can't be serious. I haven't gotten to the parts where it states Aerys wanted to bed Joanna Lannister. Or about his brother, Duncan the Small. I would hardly call Duncan 'small'. He had an epic beard! And he died beside his king. Much more than I can say for Loghain. Wait...wrong media again. Stang! Wrong media again! Dang!

So, assuming we take Jon as a legitimate Targaryen, he's still Lord Snow of the Night's Watch. Even if his heritage is revealed to him, I think he has too much honor in him to betray his oath. He was given a chance for it with Ygritte and he came back to the black. Stannis gave him another chance and he became Lord Snow instead. Even if he accepts a dragon (symbolizing his acceptance of his heritage as a Targaryen), I can guarantee Jon Snow will not abandon the Night's Watch. He will instead march on to find out what happened to his uncle Benjen Stark. He's grown up thinking his father was Lord Eddard Stark of Winterfell, the most honorable man in Westeros. He's already ashamed to be a bastard--but he's not ashamed to be one of Eddard's own, and eschews dishonorable tasks whenever he can.

As for Dany, she'll get Westeros. With three dragons, she'll definitely get Westeros. No doubt there. She has her Dothraki, her Unsullied and liberated slaves who worship her as a mother. Unfortunately, the Targaryen line will end with her because she can't have more children and Jon Snow will not betray his oath as a Watchman.

And nobody will ever sleep with Tyrion because he's not only a dwarf, but he's also ugly and now penniless and wanted for murder by his own sister. As far I can see, Varys has no interest in Tyrion's survival. I don't see this ending well for Tyrion any way.

As for Artemis Fowl, it's YA but it's very good YA. It's perfect for light reading because that's exactly what it is: light reading. Quirkynature (talk) 15:37, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

I’ve caught up with reading a bit, so I can finally address your issues. Sansa is not really forgetting who she is; she is playing the role of Alayne. The role has been forced on her and a misstep might cost her life; Arya has become an apprentice of the faceless men more or less voluntarily, so there is little wonder she is unwilling to give up what she is. – But this is merely a matter of perspectives. Tyrion theory – but of course I am serious. Tywin hates Tyrion, refuses to make him his heir, acknowledges him as a son “only because he cannot prove otherwise”, and there is even that wonderful “you are not my son…”, right before Tyrion kills him. Of course, this does not prove anything, but should Martin really want to pull out this rabbit, he has placed enough hints throughout the books to support his point (Gaider should really take this as a lesson how to prevent stupid retconning). Have you finished the DwD? I cannot develop on Jon Snow until you have, you would curse me for a horrible spoiler ;-) Currently, a couple of points interesting me: 1) the scheming of Doran Martel and 2) the scheming of Varys and Illyrio. Are they somehow interconnected, and to what extent, or are they each running an independent agenda? 3) Lady Taena Merryweather. She testifies against Tyrion, but not at Cersei’s behest. I cannot get rid of the feeling that this lady is not who she claims to be, and the last of Sandsnakes comes to mind – one Sarella, who is currently not in Dorne and indulged in some unspecified games. 4) Petyr Baelish – where does he fit in this all? He incited the strife between House Lannister and Stark on false premises – is he on his own, and wanted to get rid of Ned so that he could finally claim Catelyn, or is he after yet something else? – Here I’d very much like to know what Sansa will do, if she ever finds out that Baelish betrayed her father.--Ygrain (talk) 12:30, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

Re: Offensive?
I've been keeping a close eye on the thread. I think you're right in saying it has potential to get nasty, so myself (or another admin if I'm not around) will do something if it gets more heated, Thanks for your concern  20:27, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

Re:Info about mod content on the wiki?
No, they shouldn't be mentioned on articles. Thanks for informing me, I'll remove the edits right away. 17:02, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

Asunder
Hmmmm, for someone who played DA:O and DA:OA first, I thought both The Stolen Throne and The Calling were very good books. The DA Lore held true throughout, probably because they were also written by Gaider. The characters all made sense, and they both gave me new insights on things, such as Orlais, Ferelden, Loghain, and The Architect. As with Asunder, I'd highly recommend reading them, if only to increase your grasp of the lore. I read them because I have to do anything with a DA label on it, but I understand you're a bit more jaded. Let me put your mind at ease: the books are not some cheap knock off with the namesake suckered on as an afterthough. They really do help to expand the universe and increase our understanding of Thedas. I doubt you'll be disappointed. Rathian Warrior (talk) 19:58, December 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * /sorry for the reorganisation but my talk page is sort of overcrowded, which makes for lags in editing/
 * Thanks for the quick input, though I had to look up the meaning of "jaded" first :-) - And, you're right: I found the previous two novels rather disappointing. Useful lore-wise, but from the story-writing point of view... I have read better pieces on the ff.n. I guess I will eventually read Asunder for the sake of the lore, and will be pleasantly surprised if it comes out better than the two, but so far I'm quite sceptical, especially if the plot finale resembles that of DA2 as you have mentioned. --Ygrain (talk) 20:28, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

Re:Blog Rules
No, it's absolutely fine to post a story from elsewhere  15:04, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

Game of Thrones
Oh, it truly is a great show. Obviously, I haven't read the books, so I can't say what it is missing. However, it is as finely done as any show can be. From costumes to scenery to characters, it is stunning. If you have the chance, you should give it a try. LVTDUDE (talk) 22:14, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

- A bot confused where I should reply :-) I'm definitely going to watch it, I've peeped at some scenes on youtube and it looks great. Were I a teenager, I'd definitely have Jon's poster above my bed :D - Speaking of which: the issue who his mother was is not there, is it? --Ygrain (talk) 22:54, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

Just a bit of a joke =P

http://memegenerator.net/instance/12803701

A Well Deserved Compliment
Just got done reading some of your work on ff.net, and I am very impressed. You do such a great job of conveying the characters' personalities, thoughts, & reasonings that your stories are just as immersive as the game. It is rare to come across such finely detailed & well written fan-fics, and I flet that you should be congratulated on such an accomplishment.

P.S. As Quirky mentioned earlier, I would suggest Artemis Fowl if you are in need of some light reading. It remains my 2nd favorite book series, beaten only by HP. --CommanderCousland (talk) 22:49, January 5, 2012 (UTC)