Talk:Qunari

Capitalization
Changed all instances of qunari to Qunari as ethnic groups/races are commonly capitalized with the exception of human. --A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi - A precipice in front, wolves behind (between a rock and a hard place) 17:56, November 15, 2009 (UTC)


 * Not in DA:O. To quote David Gaider "Would you capitalize elf and dwarf? If you don't then why would you capitalize qunari? If qunari was a nationality, as opposed to their actual race, then sure -- it would be capitalized." So back it goes . Loleil 00:19, December 11, 2009 (UTC)


 * I presume that back in 2009, you folks hadn't realized yet that the Qunari are a religion and not a "race". I see no post pointing this out, but the article does and apparently the capitalization is back, if Loleil ever did undo it.


 * Quotes on "race" because, c'mon, it's the 21st century, folks, stop calling humanity a race. I realize that, for exactly the same reason I'm referring to the century we're living in, "species" isn't a very fitting word for a medieval fantasy world. But we're talking real world orthography, so let's use the correct real world terms. I'm only pointing this out because I'm aware how all too often humanity is called a race, even when race has an absurd import worldwide and everyone should know better. --89.153.195.130 (talk) 20:47, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Inspired by the Ottoman Empire
I think that the qunari are inspired by the ottoman empire: the ottoman conquered quite a lot of lands in Europe, especially in eastern europe and spain. They were stopped by crusades and several wars (such as the battle of Poitiers or the infamous Saint League) and were known for the fact that they tried to convert every country they conquered. As such, Kont Aar remind me of Grenade, the last city possessed by the Ottoman in western Europe, which is still viewed as a unique exemple of religious tolerance before the XXth century. It should also be noted that the Ottoman Empire was far more advanced technologically than Europe until the Renaissance, in topic such as philosophy (Ottoman were the last heirs of the hellenic philosophers, quite a lot of savants fleeing the fall of the Roman empire to their land. Philosophers such as Platon or Aristote were reintroduced in the christian civilization by jewish intellectual: the strong jewish population in the Empire led to the translation of their text in hebrew , which in turn allowed their translation in western languages by jews living in Europe), medicine, astronomy, mathematics... They were seen as invincible before a naval victory of the Saint Alliance. well, I think there is a lot of historical parallelism between qunari and ottomans.

87.89.25.99 15:44, December 10, 2009 (UTC)

Transcription of 'Qun' Pronunciation
I am wondering if 'kyoon' is the best rendering of how the word is pronounced. 'Kjieun' is how it is pronounced, with a 'German' J and ieu as in the French 'lieu'. I do not, however, know how to put that in a format that will both be easily comprehensible and reflect the actual pronunciation. Thoughts?

Noble House 22:48, December 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * The German J, is a y. And ieu, en francais, sound alot like oo. Lowlandlord (talk) 02:44, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

Qunari Mage
A Qunari Mage is called Saarebas (this is the singular not the plural) Examples of Quarni mages are two of majoraline's guards during leliana's quest. I found this quite intresting.--Rolan Zevran 00:15, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Arishok
Sten refers to the Arishok but I dont see a referance to that here. Does anyone know what Arishok means? Skyte 00:06, January 21, 2010 (UTC) Qunari Don't have names, there title is there name. Sten is title, in case you where wondering. The qunari, don't live like what we are use to. If you know anything about computers and how they talk to one another, it is basically the same thing with the Qunari.

--Qunari Origins Story--

I don't know if anyone else has thought of this, but I was at the party camp checking everyone's stats and I saw everyone, bar Dog and Shale, had the little stained glass window-esque pictures, including Sten, who had a little Qunari picture. So I had a ponder and wondered 'Did Bioware ever think about about a Qunari Origins story?". So What does anyone think? may they have done?

beresaad
Beresaad.

Vereh saad.

Very sad.

Sten is from the Very Sad division. :(

Trivia-worthy?

Or has this been mentioned before?

That's just plain stupid 24.61.205.192 (talk) 03:31, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

Panehedan - alternate meaning?
I'd like to propose a different meaning. Everyone has assumed that panehedan means goodbye by virtue of the context it was placed in; however, it has occured to me (by which I mean I was browsing around for an online version of the bible) that it is a closer word to panihida which is (I believe) the Romanian name for Last Rites. I'm sure that's some adaptation of some sumerian/greek/whatever word, passed down through a trillion generations, but it's something to consider.

It's like not saying goodbye, but saying See you in hell! in an elegant way.

The role of women in Qunari Society?
Judging from Sten's comments to my female warden women seem to be expected to perform the 'traditional' roles of home and hearth, any thoughts on this? Would it be possible to hypothesise that some Qunari women, according to their status and background might be soldiers or priests?

No.

/Sten

Not to be sexiest, but the women of the Qunari people, are one of two things, either a priestess or a stay at home mom. They are seen as weak, and due to this, are never warriors or people who deal with combat in any way shape or form. They are seen mainly are caretakers, so there are only those two jobs listed above that fit in the Qunari way of life.

Samurai
If you were to say that the Qunari are based on the samurai, based on these points "* The Qunari warriors may be based on the samurai. Both have strong connections with their swords. Feel dying on the battlefield is the best, if not only, way to die. Both meditate and are taught from very early on a certain way. Honor is also a huge part of their ways.", you could just as well say they were based on the Knights Templar, Dog Soldiers, Spartans or any other warrior society. First the samurai connection to his sword is overexaggerated, probably from too much anime. It was not even his primary weapon, the primary weapon of the samurai was historically the bow, then the yari, then the sword. Every culture has a concept of hono(u)r (I'm Canadian) that is a "huge part of their ways". Thats part of the very concept of honour. Something your culture considers important. It was just as important to Romans, knights and Vikings as to samurai (might even say more so, because a Japanese concept that was quite popular is that victory is always more honourable than defeat, doesn't matter how you get the victory, the modern concept of samurai honour wasn't even realized until a period when the samurai became obsolete, during the Tokugawa Bakufu, during which time Japan was a united country that did not interact with the outside war, therefore no battles and wars. The author of the Hagakure, the "Way of the Samurai" never saw battle himself). Nowhere do the samurai say that death on the battlefield is preferable, the author of that statement is confusing seppeku with getting killed by someone else. The samurai honour system considered it dishonourable to live with dishonour (duh), so to erase the dishonour, they erase the life. There are thousands of examples of samurais running away to survive. And again, the idea, that its very noble to die on the battlefield, is not solely Japanese, even the French have been known to do it (well, the Foreign Legion most famously, which was mostly not French). Again, meditation, a common thing to any militant-religious group, such as knights. Not uncommon with the religious Turkish soldiers. The learning thing, that has more to do with a Caste based society. In a Caste based society everyone is brought up to fulfill their purpose, which is mostly already chosen. Lowlandlord (talk) 02:32, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * They say Qunari are based of samurai 'cuz animes are on high nowadays, so if there's something that remotedly looks asiatic, people already say it's based of it. The vikings have more in commom with the Qunari: they were not the feral barbarians everybody thinks they were, and they preferred to die in battle than any other death. Knights of medieval europe had a high sense of honor and of doing the right thing, protecting the opressed etc. So I won't say they're based of samurai, no. The Bard From Hell (talk) 02:40, August 8, 2010 (UTC) The Bard From Hell

Party Member in D.A.2
Do you think they'll have another qunari as party member this time? If they do, do you think they may be a possible romance option? --J Shepard (talk) 17:56, December 2, 2010 (UTC)

I think that the Qunari are seen as a sort of "evil" in DA 2. From what I've seen of the trailers, they are pretty vicious and seem to be a big enemy in the game. They might make a qunari companion, but I think it's improbable. --Davi310 (talk) 17:30, January 17, 2011 (UTC)

If they are seen as evil in DA2, then a qunari companion would be even more exciting, don't you think? 174.109.86.62 (talk) 17:04, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

It probably would be interesting. I think it would resemble Tosh in Starcraft 2, being in that you don't know if you can trust him or not.It might even come to the point where you would need to decide to keep him as your companion or kill him before he kills you. That's a pretty interesting point. --Davilimap (talk) 18:01, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

Alas... there was no such companion. And I was truly disappointed. I thought I'd found him when we get Ketojan. All the signs pointed to it, they even had him being given a name. What reason would that blindly zealous sociopath have to name him, if it's not an excuse for a player companion to have a proper name? Seems like they meant for him to be, then changed their minds. This way, it just ended up contributing to the shoddy writing and plot details I've constantly witnessed in DA2. Sigh... there's a lot of room in that companion selection screen. --89.153.195.130 (talk) 20:25, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

The new picture at the top
I really don't think we should be comparing these two screen shots. I know that Sten is a qunari born without horns, but we have not seen a hornless qunari in the new art style. I'm sure that there will be one at some point (perhaps in future dlc/expansion), but comparing them now does not seem to be a good idea considering the qunari model from DA:O was just a big human with bronze skin. Balitant (talk) 23:19, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree. The picture implies that all hornless qunari look like that. We don't know that's the case. The art shift meant the qunari got a redesign. If we were to see Sten, he would look different. EDIT: How is this for a generic qunari picture? HelterSkelter (talk) 01:36, March 25, 2011 (UTC)

Format of the page
I'm temporarily locking this page before this turns into an edit war (which is already on its way to)—it is locked for a day to sysops only, so this won't be very long (it can be unlocked earlier). Instead of reverting each other's edit, please discuss it on the talk page when there's a disagreement.

"The picture at the center thing" had been used on the elves articles, but that does not mean it's the format that we should all follow. Changes happen, for better or worse.

I get that all articles aren't necessarily the same, but we want consistency within the wiki. The only pages that follow that format are the game pages like Dragon Age: Origins. Moreover, I feel that the picture used with a frame is not appealing being centered, and the black frame within the picture is unnecessary.

And these are my opinions, as an editor. --D. (talk · contr) 04:00, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

I think this format doesn't work very well since the Qunari are completly different in Origins and DA2. If someone who doesn't know the game very well comes to the wiki and opens up the Qunari page and sees the picture from DA2, they might get a little confused. I think that there is no need to start off with a picture, since most people want to see the info on the page. Also, too many pictures on a page makes for a lot of confusing because some people like a certain picture while others don't like it. This sort of think usually happens with the main picture of a page, so putting an image as the first think on the page is just asking for more edit wars. This is just my opinion, and I would like to see what some others users think of this. --Davilimap (talk) 04:08, March 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, I think we must have a single policy on race pages like this one, which uses the same format of presentation. And Qunari are not completly different in Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2, they stayed giant, faithful to Qun, and if you read the codex and the dialogues with Sten, you will see that the difference is just for the appearance and is smaller (in addition that the horn/hornlesss were explained by the developers). It's not as if their appearance was completely different and Qunari are very rare in Dragon Age: Origins, this is not all of its particularity that we see but a small disparate group having almost all a head like Sten.


 * Also, we are on a background page, images are for illustrate the narrative and a person seeking this page will seek to have information on the page, not on a particular game, it's not like a page of characters or items. It's think the image of the race is better in the center with the quote below, this reinforces the introduction and giving the impression of reading a book. Itachou [~talk~] 04:47, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

Until we see a hornless qunari in the new art style, it will be somewhat hard to make a comparison considering how the qunari model in DA:O was an enlarged human model with bronze skin. So I do agree with Davilmap. If we want to keep it, then perhaps it would be ideal to put it closer to the bottom with a note stating that "this is what a hornless qunari looks like prior to the art shift bioware to in the DA franchise". Though I differ on the stance in regards to starting with a picture at the start of the page; rather I found the picture preceding this one to be good. Balitant (talk) 05:13, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

I just want to say (again) what D has mentioned earlier. PLEASE DISCUSS FIRST AND THEN MAKE THE CHANGES. If someone is following this page, the edit war will result a lot of unwanted notifications in his/ her email inbox. -- Snfonseka (Talk)  13:31, March 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Like D-day say, this format was already use in the Elves page, so I don't make big change, just put in place the policy that was supposed to be used. Have no specific policy on a certain point leads to what each choose the policy as it wants to follow, ensuing debate like this should not be. Someone wins or loses, but all we lose time for nothing, which is unfortunate for a well built and great Wiki that don't have specific policy. Itachou [~talk~] 15:28, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

Tal'vashoth
According to one of the codex entries in DA2 (obtained in act one, either fight them or found in the qunari compound), the renegades are simply referred to as "Vashoth" by qunari meaning "grey ones". Apparently the "Tal" changes the meaning to "True Grey", and it is the tal'vashoth themselves who use the use the title to identify themselves. This does not make a great deal of sense seeing as how we see many qunari, like Sten and the Arishok, referring to these exiles as tal'vahsoth and not vashoth. Balitant (talk) 07:47, March 22, 2011 (UTC)

Qunari Warden
Does anyone know if there's ever been a Qunari warden? because I think he would be the inherant badass of the series haha


 * The Qunari having arrived by warships four centuries ago in Thedas, and only for war. They doesn't know well the Blight and only have heard the stories about the Grey Wardens. The Tal-Vashoth fled from Qun to find freedom, I don't think they would really want to integrate the Grey Wardens that take their freedom again, but yes it would be nice for the future Blight ;). Itachou [~talk~] 14:01, April 4, 2011 (UTC)

Split candidate
I don't really want to make two different topics... so the discussion is actually on Talk:Qunari Words. --D. (talk · contr) 04:12, April 12, 2011 (UTC)

Tranquil workers
Why does it say that the qunari give there captives the choice to convert to qun or become a laborer and if they refuse they get killed this article even states that the qunari do not waste resources and in DA2 Fenris mentions that if Isabella was taken by the qunari she would have been converted to the Qun or made into a mindless laborer so how can they refuse if there turned to mindless laborers

Tranquil workers
Why does it say that the qunari give there captives the choice to convert to qun or become a laborer and if they refuse they get killed this article even states that the qunari do not waste resources and in DA2 Fenris mentions that if Isabella was taken by the qunari she would have been converted to the Qun or made into a mindless laborer so how can they refuse if there turned to mindless laborers

Kossith
Is Kossith really the race of Qunari and Tal'Vashoth? If so, should we change the article name to Kossith and make a seperate page for the Qunari? --Drldrl (talk) 00:52, July 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't have a strong opinion on that. Although the name is the correct one, it's the less commonly referred to for the race. If you want, you can add  at the top of the page. --D. (talk · contr) 01:02, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with renaming the page, but Qunari should have a section on the Kossith page, not a page to themselves in my opinion.  King Cousland |  Talk  22:33, July 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * Now that you bring this up, I don't know. Currently, it's just to move the page, but since most of the article is about the Qunari, wouldn't it be better to actually split it? We have a page about Tal-Vashoth. --D. (talk · contr) 23:27, July 12, 2011 (UTC)

I think that there's too much to say about Qunari to just put them into a section, so I agree that they should have their own page come to think of it. I do, however, think that Tal-Vashoth should be made a section of the Qunari page, instead of having a page to themselves.  King Cousland |  Talk  15:38, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

I have nothing against this idea. It sounds much more logical to having it that way, less referred or not. --Chewin3 19:03, July 13, 2011 (EEST)

Honestly, we should. Add all physical, biological, and technological associtions to a Kossith page, and the stuff about the Qun stays on this articile.--BriNg iN DeR FLAmeS?! (talk) 08:23, July 15, 2011 (UTC)

I tagged Tal-Vashoth to be merged with this page (although it's written as "Qunari"). I think we can just have everything on one page ("kossith") rather than split the Qunari section to another page. --D. (talk · contr) 19:09, July 15, 2011 (UTC)

The page has been renamed to "kossith" per this discussion. If we want to split the page and such, the article needs to be tagged with Template:Split instead. --D. (talk · contr) 17:49, July 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * While I'm new here and my word might not have much weight to it, I'd support the split. Having the page on "Kossith" be mostly about the Qunari would be like having the page on "human" be mostly about the "chantry". Omacron (talk)

I also support the split. --Drldrl (talk) 21:27, July 25, 2011 (UTC)

Is the race truly called Kossith? Isn't the information on the races a conflict of interests of sorts? In the Origins all members of the race are referred to as Qunari. There are various Qunari mercenaries, not Kossith mercenaries. Also the Tal-Vashoth who are being hired to defend Denerim in the darkspawn DLC for the DA:O are called Qunari. The game and the codex imply that both the race and the followers of the Quen are called Qunari. I always though it was kind of like the Jewish. One can be of Jewish religion and origin, but also people who aren't religious but were born in the area are still called Jewish, are they not? I just think it's messing with canon and coming up with stuff form thin air.

Sorry, if I'm posting it in the wrong place or my words are not as clear as they could be - English is not my first language. Henio0 (talk) 01:44, August 29, 2011 (UTC)


 * Probably something like Arab/Muslim. Not all Arabs are Muslims and not all Muslims are Arabs, but it's a mistake that non-Muslims and non-Arabs often make. 78.8.128.165 (talk) 16:48, March 2, 2012 (UTC)

Plot hole
I find many ways to criticize the concept of the Qunari just from this article, flaws in the philosophy, the greatest and most basic being, as all the information points to, that the Qunari society operates mechanically and fundamentally represses individuality, thus making any Qunari devoid of actual "life". Following the Qun strictly seems to equal merely existing as a tool, opposite to actual sentient life.

But anyhow, I'm posting to denounce a plot hole: "The Qunari have developed certain technologies absent in Thedas, such as "gaatlok" (gunpowder) and cannons, the secrets of which they continue to carefully guard. With these technologies the Qunari were able to sweep across much of Thedas, including parts of the Tevinter Imperium."

Right. Gaatlok, ammunition for the cannons, which are perhaps the greatest military advantage of the Qunari, a dormant threat to all of Thedas. But when a few hundred Qunari infantry get stranded in Kirkwall - for what, 4 years? - no Thedosian power or entity even tries to acquire this critical tech?! Neither covertly nor openly. What nonsense is this? It's almost laughable how, despite this, they release an add-on, that Mark of the Assassin DLC, where a high noble, on behalf of the Empress of Orlais, is scheming to acquire something with which to strike at the Qunari. At the very least, it means they are not relying on a lasting peace, but preparing for war, recognizing the obvious threat that the Qunari pose.

But wait, here's the kicker: the arishok and all his men openly attack Kirkwall, which, by no uncertain means, must be a breach of the peace treaty. Well, once they're vanquished, why in the hell is the gaatlok recipe not seized? Bah! You see such plot holes and inconsistencies throughout the blasted game. And story isn't even the only faulty aspect of the game, just the most. --89.153.195.130 (talk) 21:42, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Remember how the Arishok said they would all die to protect the gaatlok, and had a fake as well as other protections in place? It's not as if they can't replace it either, if at such great risk they would just destroy the information/method/whatever. It is a plot point that they have protections, not a plot hole. (175.39.35.137 (talk) 04:15, November 2, 2011 (UTC))

Split
Just in case anyone was wondering, the split proposal is sort of at Forum:Book excerpts. The idea is to group codex entries (whether they are found in-game or elsewhere). The kossith (or Qunari—I haven't read the whole thing) section will be marked as such. --D. (talk · contr) 17:10, January 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * ✅ The page has been split. --D. (talk · contr) 17:35, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

I'm having trouble understanding
So are the horned people the same race as Sten? I get that not all Kossith are Qunari, but I'm not getting if "Kossith" refers to both these sorts of people or if those are two diffent races. I guess I'm just slow.--Grassrunnerdaughter (talk) 05:01, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

They are. The best way (I find) to think of horned and hornless Kossith is that it is a genetic trait. Some Kossith may or may not have horns based upon their genes, and some humans may or may not have red hair depending on theirs. I've oversimplified it, but I hope this helps. ---- Isolationistmagi   05:12, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you--Grassrunnerdaughter (talk) 14:36, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

Kossith and Qunari are not synonymous
I mentioned earlier up in the talk page that I really think this page needs to be split. I do apologize if this is out of line but I felt creating a new topic would bring a bit more attention to the idea. The Qun is a religion/philosophy. It definitely deserves its own page, if we have a page for the Chantry, Elven pagan pantheism and dwarven Paragons. I honestly don't quite get why all of that is on the Kossith page. The Kossith are a species. Most follow the Qun, but most humans follow the Chantry and yet that page doesn't have anatomical information on them. The fact of the matter is that the Qun has many non-Kossith adherents and Tallis is a great example of one. The Kossith page should be on their biology and government (which admittedly is tied with the Qun) while "Qunari" should redirect to a "Qun" page with most of the information regarding the Qun in the current Kossith page moved there. Omacron (talk) 02:22, March 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * I completely agree. Asherinka (talk) 08:49, March 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * The split tag has been added. --D. (talk · contr) 14:43, March 21, 2012 (UTC)

I actually think we need three separate pages: Either that or move everything re government to the Qun, not to the Kossith. Asherinka (talk) 15:03, March 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Qun - for the religious teachings, including order, effectiveness, the good of all etc (like Chant of Light)
 * Qunari - for the details on the society and government, including roles, raising children etc (like Chantry)
 * Kossith - biology and a short reference to both the Qunari and the Tal-Vashoth (like Humans)
 * To play the devil's advocate: the existing pages on the intelligent races usually include information on their governments on it. Especially the Dwarves, of whom we only have one example of a state- while there are two known surviving Dwarven cities we only really know about Orzammer and therefore "dwarf society" is synonymous with "Orzammar". Following the example of other races, we should have some information on Kossith society, both Qunari and Tal-Vashoth but more detailed information should be on the Qun page. I am also not in favor of separate Qun and Qunari pages. The Qunari don't make a distinction, and neither should we.Omacron (talk) 03:45, March 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * I would agree were Qunari only Kossith. But we now know they are not: they can be elves, humans, even dwarves.. so I think it is unfair to add the info about Qunari social institutions only to Kossith, excluding all the rest: Triumvirate is not exclusively a Kossith government. Also, there is a religious text (Qun), and there is a society built based on it (Qunari). Why can't we make a distinction? Just add everything about certainty, "striving together", Asit tal-eb etc to the Qun page and everything about the society to the Qunari page. Asherinka (talk) 09:23, March 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think the best course of action would be to have a section on "society", give a short overview of Kossith within the Qunari, especially from a historical perspective, but have it mostly link to the Qun page, and then have another section in the Kossith page regarding tal-vashoth. Omacron (talk) 09:28, March 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree that the Kossith page should have short summaries re both Qunari and Tal-Vashoth, but as I've written above I think religious texts (Qun) and society based on them (Qunari) should be described on separate pages. I propose to wait for other users to express their opinions) Asherinka (talk) 09:32, March 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * I also agree with splitting it into three separate pages, the various aspects should be treated the same as other species. While it could be noted that most kossith appear to follow the Qun, one does not necessarily define the other. Yuoaman (talk) 20:00, March 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with Asherinka. ---- Isolationistmagi   20:05, March 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree with the proposed split of doing it in three pages, per Asherinka. The religion is different than the culture. In addition to the Chantry article, we have an article on the elven pantheon for elves, which is exclusively about the religion some elves follow. Although it can always be an exception, I believe it is more organized to split the article in three.


 * I'm also bumping this thread as last call for consensus (one more day). Although we could drag this discussion, the current trend of this discussion is to split as Asherinka suggests. --D. (talk · contr) 18:24, March 27, 2012 (UTC)

I think that the terms of "Qun" and "Qunari" are quite similar yet they are not synonymous in order to be merged in one page. The first is about the religion while the second is about those who follow that religion. See: Chantry The "Kossith" page however is completely unrelated and it is about a race, so it should be separated as well. Viktoria Landers (talk) 18:53, March 27, 2012 (UTC)