Talk:Fiona

Alistair: Fiona's son?
There is indisputable in-game evidence that Alistair is, in fact, not Fiona's son, for conversing with Loghain reveals that Alistair is even older than Cailan (thus revealing his heritage will endanger Rowan's station). Since Cailan was already nine years old when Fiona and Maric fell in love, Alistair must have already been born, so Alistair couldn't have been Fiona's child.

Either that, or Gaider was lying. Again.

Asecurity 20:00, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, and Cailan wasn't exactly mature for someone who would have to be going on 30-35 in order to be older than Alistair (both in behavior and appearance). Lufos 20:05, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

*DEEP Breath* So then...I am very confused. Must we be left to wonder if Gaider was just messing with inaccuracies? So let's get it around here....Maric, who's character was never one to sleep with serving girls, slept with someone during Rowan's rule, which means alistair is about 3 years younger? I say it because Rowan died when Cailun was young and supposedly alistair was born during the time both a) Rowan was alive. b) Cailun was born. I take this from the quote in this very article, ''ruined Rowan, after all. She'd be reduced to a concubine in the eyes of our neighbors, and put Cailan's status as heir in question. ''Really, either this means that it was before or during he was born. But could we stretch that to mean that 3 years after Rowan died or so, he slept with a serving girl he refused to wed and put his son's status in question- it could've ruined Rowan's status. But....it all boils down to Loghain, really. In any of these cases there is inaccuracy and confusion. There are too many dots connecting alistair and Fiona to ignore them, it'd fit perfectly. Except for the ages, and the supposed reason Eamon took him in. If Loghain is being honest, then well there goes that, but what of all the connections, plot capabilities, why was Fiona even mentioned, why does this contradict Maric's character and why would he sleep with alistair's mom given all of these things? Then again, Loghain really loved Rowan so why lie about it endangering her reputation? In both situations I'm very very lost. I know I'm rambling but I want to know if it seems plausible to you guys that a) there is something Gaider effed up and Fiona is meant to be the implied baby mama or b) there is a third illegitimate child? Really, i wish they'd release an ultimate guide to everything, with ages and all, because this all seems very..convenient, very plausible, and yet deterred by facts that could either be lies or mishaps. I'm not letting this go just yet. One more note, really guys, really, you're saying the guy who collects glorified action figures is more mature than the guy who's main fault was wanting to be super famous and heroic, what every guy in their mid life crisis goes through? I may enjoy alistair's character but man, I could buy either one of them being older. (not to mention he couldn't be too old given all the other templars like Cullen and co looked decently 20 but never too old, except Gregoir, and alistair hadn't even taken his vows yet.) Okiness 04:03, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

There is definitely a time indescrepency in The Calling. I think maybe David Gaider just isn't too good at math! The rebellion ended in 8:99. Cailan is 9 years old in the calling, and his birth is described as "finally" giving Maric a son, so he wasn't born immediately after his marriage to Rowan. Also, somewhere I think it said that Katriel was killed 14 years ago (but I'm not sure on that, I can't find it). So from that I would guess that The Calling takes place around 9:10-9:14 Dragon. However, Duncan has only been a Grey Warden less than a year when the book takes place, and in 9:30 Dragon, Duncan was getting the dreams again, which means he was getting close to his calling, so it should be almost 30 years later. Whoops! OK, you could say maybe that the Architect accelerated his taint, but he did the opposite to Fiona, so...? From what Fiona tells Maric at the end, I think we are definitely meant to think that she is Alistair's mother, but it doesn't all make chronological sense. Everyone calls Alistair a "lad" in the game, so he could be 18, but 15 seems like a stretch. Jancola c (talk) 16:27, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

I saw a post where someone offered this timeline, and David Gaider said that it looked right at first glance:

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/9/index/1054532/2

9:00 - Start of the Dragon Age

9:02 - Death of Meghren

9:03 - Maric Crowned King (Age 24)

9:05 - Cailan Born

9:08 - Queen Rowan Dies

9:10 - The Calling (Cailan age 5, Maric age 31)

9:25 - Maric Dissapears (Age 46), Cailan takes throne (Age 20)

9:30 - Modern Dragon Age Game

According to this, the events in "The Stolen Throne" would have begun three years before the Start of the 9th Dragon Age (since Maric was 18 when his mother was killed).... And the death of Meghren would have occured 5 years after the death of Queen Moira.

Now, regarding Cailan being 5 years old in 9:10 (meaning he was 3 years old when his mother died)... I, too, seem to remember thinking that he was in fact 9 years old in "The Calling", but I have yet to find where it was written in the book. And if it was at the beginning, or at the end of it (if someone could find the page for me, I'd be much obliged! Lol!)?

If it is near the end, Cailan could have been 5 years old at the beginning of the novel, and 9 years old by the time his father came back.

-FYI-

The reference to Cailan being 9yo occurs on page 93, but there is no way that the Calling takes place over more than a few months. Ferelden would have fallen all over itself looking for Maric if he had been gone that long, or at least they would have crowned Cailan and assumed he was dead.

Also, twice they refer to the events of the revolt happening 14 years ago: Maric says he both entered the Deep Roads (page 24) AND killed Katriel (page 262) at this time. These things could have taken place, I'm guessing, around 8:97 at the latest, probably more like 8:98 or 99, making The Calling 9:11 at the earliest. So... Alistair, if he's this kid, is 17-19. I feel like a cradle robber!! :P

--Jancola c (talk) 01:31, July 2, 2010 (UTC) --

Anyway, if "The Calling" begins in 9:10... It would be safe to assume that Duncan and Fiona became Wardens more or less in in 9:08, or 9:09...

So, in "Dragon Age: Origins", Duncan would have been a Grey Warden for 21, or 22 years.

Alistair did say that Grey Wardens had about 30 years to live, give or take, from the moment their bodies were submitted to the taint... So the time they have before they hear the Calling may actually vary from one individual to another.

And is 30 years when the Wardens BEGINS to have the dreams? Or is it the point where the Warden DIES from the taint, all twisted and corrupted? In that case, perhaps the dreams start a few years earlier as a "friendly warning", and become more and more intense with each passing year.

So I suppose it's plausible that Duncan could have begun to experience the dreams after 21, or 22 years if that was the case...

According to that timeline, Cailan would have been 25 in "Dragon Age: Origins". And, assuming that Alistair is, indeed, Fiona's son... He could be somewhere between 15 and 19 (because whether the story of "The Calling" happens all in 9:10; or go from 9:10 to 9:14, Fiona still needs 9 months to give birth to a child! Unless, of course, elves deliver little babies faster).

Alistair? Only 15? Really? Wow... Now I regret telling him to stop crying and to start acting like a grown-up! Poor sweet boy! (Only kidding, my character's always been very supportive and understanding towards Alistair...)

Well, in the Medieval Era, human beings had a life expectancy of roughly 30 years, so I supposed they physically matured faster than we do now... However, humans in the "Dragon Age" universe seem to age at pretty much the same pace we now do. Then again, Eamon seemed pretty worried that Cailan had yet to produce an heir at age 25! Lol!

So okay, alright, Alistair COULD, perhaps, be 15... With pretty broad shoulders, over-developed arms, and quite a bit of facial hair... Actually, you know what? Watching a few games stills, I really can't picture him as being any younger than 17! Lol! Once in a while, I have met boys who I thought were roughly the same age as I (28), only to discover that they were, in fact, 18!!! So yeah, 19, 18, 17 even... Especially with the amount of physical training he has received in order to become a Templar, and spending many hours outside in the sun (adding a few wrinkles around the mouth and eyes)... Could happen! But 15? Definitly a HUGE stretch!

David Gaider did say in his post that he didn't have his notes with him to truly confirm that time table though... We SO need an official version some day...

Amalrica (talk) 00:50, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

It couldn't have ruined her reputation after she died? 68.192.115.143 00:29, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

I just finished reading "The Calling", and actually, I would be VERY surprised if Alistair wasn't, indeed, Fiona's son:

1. First, I really don't know why someone stated that in order for Alistair to become a threat to Cailan's rule, he would have needed to be older than Cailan! We were never given that much insight into Ferelden's politics to begin with. And the Dwarf noble origin story did mention that, while it is customary for the eldest child to take the throne, should the Assembly judge that one of the youngest children would be better suited to become regent, then he/she could be sworn in as king or queen instead of his older brother or sister. I suspect that The Landsmeet plays a similar role, and that they would have the power to choose Maric's youngest son as future king over the eldest if the youngest proved more apt at ruling.

Now, having said that, if you look at Alistair's in-game features, both the softer face structures, and short and spiky haircut seem to have been chosen to make him appear younger than his half-brother (the "boys" in the game often have shorter haircuts. It's not a universal rule of course, but a shorter do does make one appear more youthful).

And Duncan "rescued" him from the Chantry 6 months earlier just as he was about to be forced into taking his vows as a Templar. I'd be surprised if the lad was already 40 by then! While Cailan can be seen as somewhat "naive" (or obsessed with his family's legacy of glorious tales), let's say that Alistair truly takes the crown (no pun intended) as being the young, innocent, sheltered boy who hasn't quite grown into a full man yet...

2. Second, we have to take into consideration that Loghain loved Rowan, Cailan's mother. And that Rowan's reputation could still have been damaged in the memory of her people and their neighbors even after her death. Both Loghain and Maric may have wished to keep Alistair's birth a secret so that Rowan would still be remembered as Ferelden's rightful Queen, and the mother of the only legitimate heir to the throne. For Maric to recognise Alistair publicly as his son, and raise him alongside Cailan in the royal court, would give the opportunity for Rowan to be seen as one of his "consorts"; and for others to try to exploit the situation (ex: making false claims about Maric's "affairs", or the true identity of the other child's mother...) Thus putting Maric in a near impossible position since he promised Fiona not to reveal that the child was born from an elven mother.

And if he did finally reveal the mother's true identity, there could be outrage, rebellions, people trying to put Alistair instead of Cailan on the throne for political reasons... So yes, even dead, the whole ordeal could still hurt Rowan's reputation, as well as bring grief to her only son.

3. Third, assuming that Loghain was also sworn to secrecy regarding the true identity of Alistair's mother, he would have had no choice than to stick with the story that they all had agreed to when asked about it. Now that it was revealed that Alistair was Maric's son, what was he supposed to do? Go "Oh yes! And by the way, did you know that his mother was also a mage, AND an elf! Yup! From the ORLESIAN Grey Wardens! That's right! Maric the Savior fancied elves, mages, Grey Wardens, and Orlesians! Isn't that just wonderful?"

So, in my opinion, I would think twice before saying that what Loghain may have told the PC proves that Alistair can't be Fiona's son.

Gaider is not lying... But the character can't tell the truth!

4. Fourth, at the end of the book, Maric showed strong discomfort and sadness regarding the fact that his son would grow up thinking that his father didn't want him, and would never get the chance to know his mother. He was even hoping that Fiona would stay in Denerim, until she explained how impossible the situation would be for herself and the child, as well as how it could hurt him and Cailan. Maric CARED DEEPLY for both Fiona and his son, and it truly saddened him to let both go. I really can't imagine that king Maric would then go on to have sexual adventures with maids knowing that it may lead him to "lose" another child.

5. Fifth, Duncan promised Maric to keep an eye out for his son. And though one could argue that Duncan's decision to have Alistair go through the Joining may have put the boy's life at risk; he was probably made aware that being a Templar wasn't what Alistair wanted, but had been given no choice in the matter.

Fiona's deepest wish was for her boy to be given the chance to live a life of his own choosing, free from the "curse" that came with being of royal blood. Confronted with Alistair's eagerness to join the Warden and escape the Chantry, it is very probable that Duncan would have opted to let him make that decision. As Alistair put it, Duncan SAVED him from the Chantry. So getting out of there was something that Alistair had been pretty desperate about, and Duncan's only way to get him out without Eamon or anyone else stopping him was to invoke the right of conscription.

Besides, he probably thought that since he had been born from a mother who was already affected by the taint; he was more likely to survive the Joining since he'd proven able to survive the taint in the womb.

Alistair said that Duncan was one of the few who knew that he was Maric's son... And I suspect that this wasn't told to him by the Revered Mother, or Cailan. Alistair's strong attachment towards his mentor also suggests that Duncan was particularly fond of him. Duncan was well respected and loved as a Grey Warden, but became a true father figure to Alistair. There's probably a reason behind that.

And unless there are some plans to put YET ANOTHER Theirin on the throne in a next Dragon Age game... And write YET ANOTHER story where Duncan is watching over the progress of YET ANOTHER of Maric's son... I really don't see the point of having a "third" child having been raised in secrecy somewhere by YET ANOTHER noble family in Ferelden...

6. Sixth, in order to prevent Alistair from asking more questions, they may have made him believe that he was the son of a servant in the castle who died in childbirth (and also lost her child, Goldana's real brother or sister)... Or, then again, "Goldana" may have been hired to play the role.

The situation of having to fabricate a whole fake story/family for Fiona's boy would still need to happen whether Alistair is that child, or not.

7. Seventh, THE CHEESE DREAM GAVE IT AWAY! Lol! Lol! Lol! In "The Calling", Duncan has a dream where Fiona keeps turning darkspawns into pillars of stinky cheese... And takes huge bites out of them! But all that Duncan can smell is "feet"

Both Fiona and Duncan find it totally disgusting... Yet Alistair is well known for his "unholy love of fine cheeses"! I may have read too much into it... But I thought it may foreshadow the fact that Fiona was going to give birth to a child who would obsess over cheese! : )

Not to mention that Alistair's "smelly feet", as well as his dirty socks, keep being discussed in the game.

So, for all of these reasons, I still say that Alistair is most probably Fiona and Maric's son.

Amalrica (talk) 00:13, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Speculation from main page
I think this article needs to be a speculation free zone so I've moved the following here: 04:55, May 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * It should also be mentioned that it has been speculated that Fiona is the only Grey Warden to be made immune to the calling as she was cured by the mages in Weisshaupt.
 * This sounds like something that could go back, it just needs more detail.
 * Unfortunately, there isn't more detail... she just says this is what the mages at Weisshaupt think, on page 440.Jancola c (talk) 16:18, June 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Another interesting fact is that the child might actually be Alistair. According to the novels, Dragon Age: The Calling is happening while Arl Eamon is around 25, and has already inherited his father's title. Hence, it is probable that the child was sent to him to be raised away from King's court. Alistair believes that his mother is human, as he was supposed to, and his sister Goldanna might be "planted" to make the story more convincing to him, or Arl Eamon might have 'introduced' the infant Alistair to Redcliffe as the child of a servant who had recently died in childbirth, when the truth was that both that servant and her newborn (Goldanna's real sibling) had died.


 * Furthermore, one can quite easily notice from the novels that King Maric is not a personality that goes around having affairs with serving girls; quite the contrary, his entire life is spent in grief and regret for the unfortunate ending with Katriel. Duncan also has the knowledge of the child, and perhaps this is the reason why he "rescues" him from the Chantry.