Talk:Broken Circle

Uh, there appears to be a bug where the Circle quest cannot be completed. I was in a party with Wynne, Alistair, Shale and the Warden, and we killed Uldred. I used the Litany right when he died, got the cutscene with Irving and was teleported downstairs, but Irving then disappeared. It appears that the Circle doors are once again locked, and nobody who you speak to will open them. Furthermore, Gregoir behaves as if you had not entered the tower yet, but you have accepted the quest (i.e., he won't open the door for you, but he asks you why you haven't gone in yet). I don't think it's possible to complete the game any more this way, seeing as I believe you need to recruit Mages or Templars as well as the rest for Arl Eamon to suggest the Landsmeet.--Zelinker 02:03, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if you want to add it, but having Shale in your party when you attempt to cross the river to the circle makes the persuading go a lot faster. Shale will threaten to crush something the guard won't possibly miss. The guard will then immediately take you to the tower. --MiyuEmi 14:42, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * Heh, didn't know that. I'm still on my first Play through.  Going really slow, trying not to miss anything.  I still haven't gone to get Shale yet though, so I'm unfamiliar with the actions/reactions she inspires --Crackerjaquebox 15:41, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

She is the best friend to anyone if you're trying to coerce an NPC into doing what you want. The only place you can't take her is the Arl's residence to rescue Queen Anora. Anora's handmaid will tell you she can't go and Shale says, "Oh I see, I would stand out amongst all the other statues." I'm on my 4th playthrough because I'm a completionist and RPG obsessed. The page looks excellent. Look forward to seeing it when it's complete! --MiyuEmi 16:42, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm a bit of a completionist as well, but between work and the family I don't get to put as much into gaming as I'd like to. Shale was my next stop today anyway, and I was looking forward to it.  Thank you for saying it looks well.  I do this stuff in my spare time at work when I don't have anything to do.  It's also nice to be able to help others, 'cause I know I certainly need it sometimes.  Torment kicked my bum! --Crackerjaquebox 17:05, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

Myself as well, I only edit at work as teenagers are really demanding. I make sure I have my gaming time at night though as I need it! If you need anything confirmed, let me know as I keep the official guide at home in case I get stuck so I'm not tossing controllers or stressing if I get stuck! --MiyuEmi 10:16, November 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * OOOH! Controllers! Perhaps you can verify a few things for me then! I play on a PC, and from some things I've been noticing, the item stats between the PC and Consoles are sometimes different.  As well, I have no idea what the button for highlighting interactive items is (TAB on the computer)....  I mentioned possibly turning in the quest "Summoning Sciences" to the Collective... I read that somewhere, but I just did it while I was on my way up the tower, so I personally can't verify it on my current game.  Do you know if you can?  --Crackerjaquebox 10:48, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

I will check my guide at home tonight and then post a reply here to let you know for sure. --MiyuEmi 10:39, November 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * that would be greatly appreciated. Consequently, do you know if anyone is trying to... "Fix" this page right now? I'm still editing, repairing and writing it, and sometimes I go into preview mode, or upload progress and things get... strange.  Headings and such change, subheadings lose their type, so on and so forth.  --Crackerjaquebox 10:48, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

I don't know, but based on your post below, clearly someone was editing in the middle of you. They should have a way to lock a page to prevent edits before a page is finished. Maybe you could ask a moderator. --MiyuEmi 13:21, November 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * I have the official prima guide and I can say it doesn't say if there is a second part where you turn it into the mages collective however this doesn't mean that there isn't one. There is a Chanter's Board quest called Unintended Consequences that unlocks after you do summoning sciences lesson 2 were you find the Trickster Whim you had summoned in a random encounter and you defeat it and then report it to the nearest chanter's board. KageZX 13:47, November 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * Ahaaaa... The Summoning Sciences 2 portion was what I was referring to. However, and I can't remember where, I picked up the information in a vague kind of manner and included it knowing that, something at least, came from it. Thank you.  --Crackerjaquebox 17:06, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

Editing
An unregistered user edited the side quests section in reference to turning in the quest Summoning Sciences. He removed the line associated with turning it in, and left a note saying it completed with the 3rd quest, which it doesn't. I re-added the line as a as a different paragraph and asked that people refrain from editing without coming to THIS PAGE first. I'm not even done with the article yet, and it's very hard to write if people are changing things AS you're righting them, AND posting information that is not only wrong, but attacks something listed as "unconfirmed". I have only READ about there being an associated quest that takes Summoning Sciences farther, and it specifically stated that the rituals CANNOT be performed before the tower is clear. Since I am still on my first play through, and did the quest BEFORE I finished the tower, I have no PERSONAL way to verify this. I am willing to discuss it, and go to any links that can prove me wrong, or right. But if you have evidence, please post it, and I will gladly change the information. --Crackerjaquebox 11:56, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

Warning, an unregistered user just edited your in progress page. --MiyuEmi 13:51, November 20, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, well it's finally done. People can now destroy it, or fix it to their hearts content... It's taken two days to write the thing, and my hands are tired.  --Crackerjaquebox 13:57, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

I fixed an error that I had unwittingly included in this walkthrough. I had read somewhere that when you return from the fade, you face a Drake along with the dragonlings. I have been through this several times now, and there is only the dragonlings. I removed the reference to the Drake. Sorry to have included something erroneous. --Crackerjaquebox 11:20, November 26, 2009 (UTC)

Style
First, good job with this section of the walkthrough. I've just been going over it to fix the punctuation a bit and to make it sound a bit more neutral. Although running commentary makes the article more lively, I think that a walkthrough should just lead the players to succeed in the game, and allow them to make their own judgments on the character. I don't mean to step on any toes though. Ancestralmask 16:23, November 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * Hhehehe... The running commentary isn't actually a "personal" view point towards any character or action. It's more of a way to keep the read more interesting.  I happen to like Wynne, but I did originally say you could tell her to sit her old bum on the side line... Cause, well, she's IS old. :) I did my best to keep the write neutral, didn't get too in depth on tactics, and left most information and knowledge to be found by the person actually playing.  I will admit, I'm not the best writer in the world, so there's many, many grammatical mistakes as well as a few typos... I try to keep up on those, but it's not very easy.  Thanks for "cleaning up". There's no toes to step on here anyway. :) --Crackerjaquebox 17:02, November 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * I know, I do the "running commentary" a lot when summarizing movies and books to friends, it's a lot more fun that way ;) But I think most people who are using a wiki to look up game details just want to know the quickest way to plow through a section of the game they're having trouble with. You've done a really good job making the article informational, I'm not sure I'd have been able to do that. And I rarely have time to play, so I've been hesitant to make entirely new sections here for fear of screwing something up. I'll just use my skills to keep the place tidy where I can. :) Ancestralmask 17:27, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

Flemeth's Grimoire?
Is it really Flemeth's Grimoire that gets picked up in Irving's quarters? I played this quest last night, and distinctly remember getting the Black Grimoire. Don't have access to the game at this moment though, so I can't check. Ancestralmask 16:48, November 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * It is indeed the Black Grimoir, but because of the sheer volume of writing I hadn't fixed it yet. That's one of the reasons I linked Flemeth and Grimoire seperately as well. --Crackerjaquebox 17:03, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

Flemeth's Grimoire can only be got at Flemeth's Hut and is Morrigan's personal quest. --MiyuEmi 10:33, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

Desire Demon and the Templar
Now I'm just curious, because there's been a couple posts on it, and there's a *note about it now in the walkthrough. But, why in the hell would anyone let the Desire Demon that has the Templar in thrall go? Do you run into Him/Them later? Perhaps me, but letting the demon escape just does not compute. Demon = Death in my book. Anyway, just curious what comes of this, and if there's any real reason to let her go. --Crackerjaquebox 14:18, November 26, 2009 (UTC)
 * Roleplay :P . I was playing an evil character who had absolutely no problems with demons as long as they didn't attack her, so it was the most logical course of action for her. Besides, as a mage, she had no particular love for Templars. And it's not like trying to kill the demon would "save" the Templar anyway. - Ancestralmask 21:57, November 26, 2009 (UTC)
 * I roleplay alot. And even in your scenerio.. Wouldn't killing them work as well? No hate for a demon, but no love for a templar.  I'd rather take the opportunity to end the Bastard then let her free.  But.... Maybe if I eventually make a character that takes up the Desire Demon from Connor's... Third Choice. :)  --Crackerjaquebox 23:38, November 26, 2009 (UTC)
 * (Late reply is late) Well, my character also wouldn't lift a finger unless she absolutely had to. So... avoiding a fight is just a lot cleaner. Of course, I've been noticing that I'm missing out on a lot of experience simply because I never felt the urge to fight every little thing I came across. - Ancestralmask 17:03, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

The Demon states that in the man she saw his desire for a quiet family life with a wife and children, so that is what the Demon gave him. happiness that he would want, even if it is an illusion. You can debate with the demon whether this is right or not. (see: The Matrix/Allegory of the Cave) =P  --Galith 07:07, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

This is the hardest main quest ever
What is the best party members and charcter build?OutcastNeedhelp 01:42, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

Helpful Suggestions

 * There is no "best" party or character build, persay. There are some recommended, but ultimately it boils down to play style. The most common party make-up would be a Tank (warrior in the best armor you have to soak damage and occupy enemies).  A mage/healer type to keep the tank and the group alive, and two forms of damage dealer.  Most people differ on the types of damage that they would prefer to bring to a group.  I personally prefer to have a Rogue/archer for ranged damage and then a second warrior usually using a 2-hand weapon to deal damage, but that can also take a few hits as well.  This of course can't always be the case, depending on the type of character you, the player, are playing.  Many other people like to stack two mages for extra crowd control, with a rogue for picking locks and dealing melee/ranged damage.  One mage is usually focused primarily on healing, while the other is focused on damage/de-buffing. In my experience rogues also make decent back up "tanks" when controlled by the player.  They require a high dexterity as a rule, and thus have very high defense scores, allowing them to dodge most attacks.  Their stuns are also very effective, and when combined with coup-de-grace and back-stab usually kills things before they come out of the stun.  You should also try to carry as many healing poultices as possible, and set tactics on characters to use them at around 50% health.  That way should your healing mage be late on a heal, it won't be as disastrous.


 * As far as character build. Well, that is entirely up to the individual.  You will want to play your character your own way, not the recommended style of someone else.  There is a near infinite amount of ways a person can set up their character, through weapons, abilities, and armor.  This is the most personal aspect of the game, and you really shouldn't ask so much how to build.  There's guides for various class/archetypes but they're usually very general.  For example:  A warrior using sword and board (weapon and shield) should usually focus on strength until they are able to wear the heaviest of armor, 42.  Then focus primarily on Dexterity, Willpower (preference), and add a few points in constitution to allow the warrior to be able to absorb more damage.  Alternatively a similar warrior that is focused on using large 2-hand weapons would focus solely on strength because it is the modifier for both damage and hit % with that weapon.  That same warrior with a 2 hand weapon can either be using Massive armor, which increases threat on enemies, but off-sets it with the ability to take more punishment, or perhaps use lighter armor, to reduce attention from enemies and increase the amount of special attacks they can perform by reducing fatigue generated by such heavy armor.  The trade off being of course, that the warrior is much more "squishy."


 * Similarly there are various ways to set up rogues as well. You can have your melee specialized rogue that focuses primarily on Dex  and using two weapons in fighting.  Back-stabs do an impressive amount of damage, and stunning is great for controlling a group of enemies.  Or that same rogue can be set up to use Bows/crossbows to do some very good damage from range, without drawing as much attention.  The melee rogue requires more micro-management but is very satisfying and a boon to the group, but I would personally only recommend it for a personally controlled character, as back-stabbing can't be set as a tactic.  Where-as ranged rogues can be programmed and forgotten about basically.  It is recommended that whatever you do, that you always have a rogue in the party simply for unlocking chests/doors when the need arises.  However, this isn't "essential" because the game designers never put anything super important in a chest that not everyone has access to.  It's merely a monetary investment on the part of the player.


 * Mages introduce the largest amount of versatility to the group no matter what the objective. Depending on how you've set them up they can perform a very large array of roles.  Arcane Warriors can actually be set up as the Tank, negating the need of the sword and board wielding warrior in the party.  With Massive armor, and the mages impressive amount of sustained abilities, Arcane Warriors become nearly immortal, especially in the later game.  On the other hand, Mages are also the only class in the game capable of healing, and can even specialize in it further with Spirit healer.  This allows them to keep the party alive in any number of circumstances.  Many would see this as the mage's ultimate role, simply because they're the only ones that can do it.  I, however, have never focused on it at all.  Preferring the use of healing poultices, and only throwing the occasional heal with my mage.  I see the mage being more specialized than just a heal-bot.  I prefer to use them for controlling encounters with various crowd control abilities like paralysis and so on. They are very effective at weakening enemies, making them less likely to kill you. They are also the only class that can do sustainable damage to a group of enemies, instead of only one at a time.  The combination of large area spells, and the ability to control the pace in combat are the primary attributes I focus on with my mage.


 * Regardless of how you chose to form your party, it is imperative to realize that success in any given situation is largely determined by the tactics used in combat. For example:  A large group of enemies can overwhelm the player, especially if they have "magical" aid.  The first thing any player should do when involved in large scale combat is identify and neutralize the largest potential threat first.  Just as a mage can make or break your party, a single spell caster in an enemy group can destroy you if you leave them alone.  Sure, there's an "elite" enemy in the group you're fighting.  He may hit hard, for sure.  But the emissary in the back paralyzing, and weakening your group, all the while throwing fireballs at you will ultimately spell your doom.  When entering combat identify any enemy spell casters and do whatever is necessary to lock them down and eliminate them immediately.  Enemy archers can also be very annoying, but they normally focus on your tank, and he's using a shield which limits their effectiveness greatly.  As a general rule I usually ignore them until last, unless they decide to focus on a different party member, namely the healing mage.  In groups with few relatively powerful enemies, like "boss" encounters, it's best just to be patient.  Keep the tank alive and the boss focused on him.  Do whatever you can to weaken/de-buff the boss, and then just try to stay alive.  Being patient will win the day.  Auto-attacking and making sure you control the fight as much as possible, is more important than trying to end it quickly.  Pick your fights.  Most encounters in the game can be "scouted" well before actual engagement.  A rogue with just a couple ranks in stealth can explore an area and identify threats ahead of time.  Since most encounters will have you outnumbered by a substantial margin, it is best to identify helpful features in the terrain.  For example: identify any form of bottle neck that you can siphon the enemy down, limiting the amount of enemies that can engage you at the same time.  Fight in door-ways when ever possible.  Place traps in narrow corridors that will increase the likely-hood that they will be triggered and also maximize their effects.  Use crowd-control strategies that will reduce active combatants.  Have adequate supplies, such as healing poultices and lyrium potions to see you through prolonged confrontations.


 * These are just some examples and suggestions for you to help ease things up a bit. Hope it helps, if even a little. --Crackerjaquebox 05:19, December 16, 2009 (UTC)