Talk:Anora

I'm going to be the first person to say it because somebody has to: I would totally tap that.
 * And then you will be imprisoned, because that's just Anora being Anora. Vegnas 23:58, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * That might be worth it.... --Crush. 11:24, December 10, 2009 (UTC)
 * I got my handsome Dalish Elf all naked with Natural Body Mod right before I talked to Anora about the Throne. I even asked her to marry me and she gave me a cold harsh "No", right in my face. I'm making a Human Noble right now just to get it on with her, its sad she cant have babies, oh well Fy  can  [ fahy - kan ] @ 12:26, February 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * ::Umm, I'm not sure that stripping off before proposing to a woman you've barely met is likely to improve the chances of her agreeing! Just sayin', in case the info comes in handy in real life  13:01, February 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * I am reasonably sure she is fertile. I believe that the rumors from the "bartenders" are almost categorically false
 * Jax Sparrow 03:37, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * While I can't say for certain one way or another if she's fertile, I do believe that rumors are exactly that, rumors. They can't be taken as fact. All we know is that Anora & Cailan failed to have children despite five years of marriage. It -might- be that Anora is infertile. But it could also be that Cailan is infertile, that Anora & Cailan were genetically incompatible and thus would found it far easier to have children with other partners, or they simply weren't interested enough in each other to try very hard. But as was often the case in olden days, it was the wife who generally got the blame, even when it wasn't her fault. -Vim- 03:57, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Loghain, if you let him live, can make the remark that he asked Anora about grandchildren. I think she was more appalled that her father was actually asking about their love live... in a round about way, for a Norman Rockwell esq daughter, that would be horrid and something to avoid at all costs. However, my point is simple, whether she was fertile or not, her father would definitely know the truth. Loghain doesn't seem the type to let something like five years with no heir to the throne go, without at least a reason why. So I suspect something even more stereotypical and that Cailen just didn't swing that way. He preferred men, and that is why there was no heir. Definitely, my character is producing heirs. ;)


 * Jax Sparrow 06:07, April 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * How does Loghain being Anora's father make him the authority on her fertility? Clearly he'd like a grandchild. Clearly he thinks his daughter and the player should get working on one ASAP. But I don't see how that magically enables him to determine that her ovaries are regularly producing fully functional eggs. So no, I totally do not see your point. -Vim- 17:03, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Landsmeet Betrayal?
cough, how the hell is anora betraying you in the landsmeet if you didn't promise to support her :P --71.112.18.247 13:18, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

If you tell her that her father must die then she will betray you even if you promise to support her. It can also be considered a betrayal even if you don't support her for the following reasons:
 * She promised you her support to get you to rescue her. At that time she didn't attach any conditions to her support beyond rescuing her from Howe.


 * If you ask her if she'll support Alistair she'll respond that her father must be removed from the throne. Once he is removed from the throne if the throne should fall to Alister she'll be content.


 * Then she'll throw her support behind her father and try to make you look like an enemy of Ferelden if you never promised to support her regardless of her previous promise and her pretense at contentment with simply removing her father earlier. 68.82.52.241 03:15, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

Sounds like Anora wants to have her cake and eat it too. "Anora will support The Warden if the Warden agrees to support her bid for the throne (either ruling alone, with Alistair or with a male human noble Warden) as long as The Warden does not express the view that Loghain must pay for his crimes." Because, you know, daddy indirectly killing her Husband, sparking a civil war, denouncing and effectively slaughtering the Gray Wardens, totally cool with her. She's no better then her father. --96.54.228.29 19:21, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

How do you get Anora to marry you?
Do you have to let Allistair kill her father or does he have to live?


 * As I understand it, either. Anora just will not marry her father's murderer. She can marry either The Warden or Alistair if Loghain lives (though Alistair will only accept marriage if Loghain lives if "hardened" and will leave the Warden's party), and will marry either The Warden or Alistair if Loghain dies - just not the one of them that actually struck the killing blow. 12:57, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Queen?
Forgive me if I misunderstand, but Anora becoming Queen is only one of several options. So is it really appropriate to have her listed as "Queen of Ferelden," considering it isn't necessarily going to happen? Nosferatu13X 04:33, February 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * My view is that it is appropriate. She has been queen for 5 years prior to the start of DA: Origins, and if she does cease to be queen that will only be towards the very end of the game. Similarly with Loghain - I think it's appropriate to call him a teyrn, even though the article talks about the time before he was teyrn and a possible time after he's a teryn. 12:54, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh man, you'll have to forgive me. All common sense seemed to have lost me when I wrote that, as I completely forgot she, as Cailan's wife, was queen. I thought of "queen" as being the sovereign ruler, so yes, that would make perfect sense. Nosferatu13X 00:11, February 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * No probs! It's always good to challenge, and I see where you were coming from! 13:43, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

So, who is actually king of england ? At the death of the queen her husband will certainly not be called king or bear the crown. In the game Anora is just the widow of the former king, nothing more, as it takes place after the death of Cailan. So the right title for the page should be usurper Anora.Croquignol 08:03, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * While no saint, Anora was legally the Queen of Ferelden at the beginning of the game by virtue of her marriage to King Cailan. She did not usurp that title. Her father is certainly an usurper, but she herself is not. 68.82.52.241 03:32, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

The game itself is high fantasy, which has roots in traditional Western European lore. And they do, in fact, continue to call the wives of dead kings Queen, unless they were deposed or something along those lines. Going by that, she is still very much Queen of Ferelden, if not the ruling Queen of Ferelden; during the time between Cailan's death and whomever takes the throne after the Landsmeet, she would be considered a Queen Regent, since her powers come through marriage. Should she formally ascend the throne after the Landsmeet, that would change to Queen Regnant, one who rules in her own right.

Meridian Wake 07:00, March 9, 2010 (UTC)-Meridian Wake


 * Whether or not she qualifies as a Queen Regent is open to debate. The proper title for the widow of a ruling king who is not mother to an under-age heir is Queen Dowager. Queen Regents are generally widowed queens who are also the mothers of kings not yet old enough to rule. They generally have some ability to rule, although often limited by a privy or guardian council of some sort, because the future king's mother is presumed to be the best protector possible of her young son's interests. I can see your point though since she technically meets the dictionary definition of a queen regent as a queen who rules when the king can not, even if she does not hold the title legally. Anora's marriage was childless however and with Cailan's death she had no King in whose name she could continue to rule. Regardless, at the beginning of the game she was still queen-consort and that's what the top of her page should say. Her husband's subsequent death and the fact that it brought her legitimacy as a ruler into serious question are spoilers that should not be placed at the beginning of her page. 68.82.52.241 13:08, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

The Queen Regent/Dowager title in and of itself is up for debate; two famous Catherine's in Europe have been Dowager Queens, but while Catherine de'Medici ruled for her underage children (while being referred to as a Dowager Queen) and held power, Catherine, last wife of Henry VII of England was also considered a Dowager Queen and obviously held no power, since she had no heir with Henry and Edward ascended the throne. In both cases, the Dowager title merely indicates the Queen of a former King, but the nuance (which admittedly has some cultural relativism) has more weight. I think for the purpose of this article and the lore of the storyline, Anora is considered to be the Queen of Ferelden (Dowager, Regent, or Regnant aside) and is referred to as such. For simplification, I think Queen of Ferelden suits her just fine. No one seems to take issue with her ruling Ferelden until the heir can be properly decided on. Meridian Wake 03:11, March 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * While she never officially held the title, she was effectively already acting queen regent while her husband was alive since he allowed her to rule in his name. Nevertheless after her husband died at Ostagar, her father very quickly pushed her aside in his own power grab, turning her into little more than a figurehead even as he pretended to support her rule. He could not refer to her as a dowager (assuming the title or an equivalent exists in Ferelden) without undercutting his own legitimacy given the claims he had made. It was more convenient for him to claim that she was the legitimate ruler of Ferelden since it justified his acting as her regent. His claim was rather weak, but he had the force of arms to crush those that complained. Many of the banns & arls subsequently rebelled, and he proceeded to defeat and execute several of them prior to the Landsmeet. Thus she really didn't have much of an opportunity to rule after her husband died thanks to her father. I definitely do believe that it should continue to be made clear however that she did not rule in her own name at any time before the Landsmeet. It is only if the player supports her at the Landsmeet that she finally is able to assume the throne in her own name, ie. she becomes what in our world would be considered a Queen Regnant. I wouldn't use the titles Queen Dowager, Queen Regent or Queen Regnant however since they've never been used in either the game or the novels. I agree with you that Queen of Ferelden is fine as a title. I also think Queen Consort is fine as well given that the Consort title is used in the game to describe the official title of the wife of a ruling king, and because she made it very clear in some of her dialogs that she was dissatisfied ruling in her husband’s name when she so strongly desired to rule in her own. 76.98.88.113 11:42, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

Request: new Anora's picture
Anora looks wayyy hotter than how she looks in this picture. We Need a new picture of her.

A picture of her taken from any angle at any point of the game would look better than this, I dono what kind of alteration this picture has gone through so Anora could look like this, I barely even recognize her. Fy can  [ fahy - kan ] @ 14:46, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm today she looks better than yesterday.. looks more.. noble :) Thankyou. Fy  can  [ fahy - kan ] @ 11:56, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

yeesssssss ;)

Anora's age
In the new codex entries we get from Arl Eamon "The queen approaches her thirtieth year and her ability to give you a child lessens with each passing month." Are we supposed to understand that 23 is close to 30 as compared to say... 12 to 17 like the women used to get married in the Middle Age? Or shouldn't Bioware adjust to something like 28? Just wondering... Auriaya 20:28, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

Where did you find the above quoted codex entry saying she's approaching 30? I don't see that quote in any of the text for her codex entry in DA:O, and it seems to imply that she's already married to the player warden. Is this from DA:A? I wouldn't be surprised if there is a conflict however. We still don't know for certain if Alistair was born before or after Queen Rowan died. We do know that Anora stated in DA:O that her marriage to Cailan was arranged when he was newly born and she was still in swaddling clothes. That would put her at less than year older than Cailan. He was 5 at the time of Dragon Age: The Calling according to page 93 of my copy of the book. This conflicts with the 9 year age for him listed in the wiki. The wiki quotes the very same page I am, but gives a different number. My copy of the book also states that Orlesian rule was thrown off 8 years before on page 16. The wiki lists it as 11 years before. Bleh. I'm confused. The wiki puts him at approximately 29 while my math puts him at around 27. According to his character resource file he's 25. And if Anora is roughly the same age, but a few months older as specified by her in DA:O, that would put her in the 25 to 30 range which matches your quote above better. I'm kind of getting the feeling that Bioware didn't stick to the numbers listed in the character resource files, changed things on the fly, and then lost track of some, but not all of their changes, leaving us with the confused mess we currently have. (Again, just try to make sense of Alistair's age if you want a real headache. ) The higher numbers don't make a whole lot of sense however when you consider that they were betrothed from birth and married young. I'm willing to throw the 23 number out given the conflicting sources. It's a pity though, personally I think age 23 for both Anora and Cailan (or possibly 22 for Cailan with Anora being a few months older) fits their personalities and circumstances best. 68.82.52.241 00:34, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

Well I didn't dig that far, but that's why I was asking. The quote is from a Codex entry from the last DLC: Return to Ostagar Codex_Entry:_Cailan's_Documents_-_Page_2_of_3. Maybe Bioware didn't expect to breed fans of their lore and didn't always check the coherence between the ages. I have no idea... but I do agree that their early twenties would be more appropriate given the story. Auriaya 00:59, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

Very interesting reading. Thanks for the link. The third entry in particular caused me to raise an eyebrow, especially when considered in combination with the second. Cailan might possibly have been planning to dump Anora in favor of a royal marriage with Empress Celene cementing an alliance between the two nations. It isn't stated explicitly, but it's certainly hinted. Wow. Whether or not that's what Cailan was planning, if Loghain were monitoring Cailan's communications or otherwise got wind of all this, he'd probably have come to the conclusion that his daughter was about to get humiliatingly dumped by her husband the King for Ferelden's greatesty enemy, the Empress of Orlais, and his decision to engineer the King's death in the middle of a Blight suddenly becomes more understandable. Wow. I really need to play Return to Ostagar one of these days... 68.82.52.241 13:15, March 5, 2010 (UTC) I

Most likely they didn't bother to make an 'official' time line to have a reference to go off of when tossing out ages and such.

The thing I find strange is that if they were betrothed from the time they were babies, and they only married after Cailan took the throne, and she's 30ish according to Eamon, that means they waited till 25 to marry? Why would you wait that long if you are already betrothed? I suppose it might have something to do with him needing to be proclaimed king before marriage to establish control, but I still find it hard to believe that they would be forced to wait that late in life when people are expecting heirs.129.198.241.63 12:17, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

I'm totally with you on this. Breeding an heir has historically been considered among a ruler's most important duties. Realistically, having been betrothed from birth, they'd likely have been married as soon as he hit legal age, which was generally around sixteen. Waiting until you're king is silly. If you died before you could produce an heir (or assumed the throne after your fertility had waned) your kingdom would be wrecked in a civil war as your most powerful nobles vied for the throne causing a great deal of death & misery, while creating an opportunity for an outside power (ie. Orlais) to invade. Bioware's lack of attention to the timeline and the resulting lack of cohesion in the story detract from an otherwise enjoyable game. -Vim- 14:13, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

Is there any mentioning of her combat skills?
Today I saw this picture of her in an armor on this wiki, it was the first time I ever saw this. I always wondered how well she could lead an army, but I never had her rule ferelden alone. I'm curious, is there some source stating something about her martial skills? Is she a skilled fighter? Are there some infos in the editor/toolset regarding her combat skills? 84.119.78.41 (talk) 16:50, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

Loghain says if you ask for Anora: "She followed her mother like a shadow about the gardens. She practiced archery and swordplay. She was never idle." Makoto DK (talk) 18:36, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

She has no experience leading armies and that is why she allows her father to take over. Nevertheless as mentioned in the text Makoto quoted, she spent quite a bit of time during her childhood developing her swordplay and archery skills. I could swear that one of the game developers at one point said somewhere that she put her swordplay aside when she became an adult, and thus is not in her father's league, or the Warden's. Nevertheless she's certainly still more than competent with a blade despite the fact that she does not regularly carry one. -Vim- (talk) 01:38, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

Prisoned
Why do you think Anora was sent to prison if Alistair and F!Cousland get married? Why don't they execute her? Is it becaue they know that Alistair can't produce an heir and they'll need a new ruler when he's dead? --Sencilia (talk) 10:35, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

King or Prince Consort? Who cares
The article seems to make too big a deal out of her "contradicting herself" over the Warden's title if they marry. There is no substantial difference between either title, in both cases you are the consort to the Queen Regent, and only she can change that. You have no real powers, Prince Albert is known to have complained about that. Also, to the above argument that if the Queen of England died the Duke of Edinburgh would not get the crown, that is because he is not a King, not even a King Consort, he's lucky he got to be a Duke (and God to some Polynesians). That is unless the same tragedy that killed our Queen of Canada, took another 501 members of European nobility (hes 503 in line). Anora on the other hand was Queen, and lacking any other successors, such as kids that they don't have, and inbred family members resulting from the circular marriage patterns of the nobility, which they don't have as the current dynasty is on it's third monarch since the restoration (Maric, Cailan and Anora). Lowlandlord (talk) 06:54, August 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Given that this subject has been argued repeatedly both here and on Bioware's own forum in the past, it seems prudent to keep it in there so people can point to it when future "You're a King! no you're a prince!" discussions erupt. So some people clearly do care, even if not everyone does.


 * Regarding inheritance of the monarchy, Ferelden's government is pre-renaissance feudal monarchy, nothing like the post-industrialized governments of modern Europe and their figurehead monarchies and nobles. Pre-renaissance, it was virtually impossible for a woman to inherit the throne from her husband in the real world (unless she was ruling in her son's name). And as Anora herself comments, she had previously governed on her husband's behalf, and not her own.  The opposite did however happen on occasion with the new king forcing either the widow or daughter of the old king into marriage in order to cement his own claim to the throne. While Ferelden is more of a fantasy feudal monarchy then a real-life based feudal monarchy, given the nearly, but not quite equal status of women, her position was still tenuous at best until she could get the Landsmeet to approve her.


 * As far as the distinction between King Consort and Prince Consort is concerned, after his heroic defense against the blight, many people would quickly shorten King-Consort to King to gain the favor of a man who controlled the nation's armies. You would then have a man seen by most as King despite not technically having the title, and it likely wouldn't be hard to dethrone Anora at that point should he so choose. History is filled with examples of successful generals dethroning kings and emperors, and of husbands seizing their wives inheritances. It would be even easier if most already called that man King. This is a major reason why England's parliament, once it became a force to be reckoned with, often refused to grant the title of "king-consort" to a foreign husband of the ruling queen. Even the epilogue ending for a Warden who marries Anora makes clear that the Warden may end up fighting her for power. So for people who enjoy thinking and talking about such things, the distinction between the two titles may be significant. -Vim- (talk) 14:48, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

Horrible battle speech.
I don't know if I'm the only one who thought this, but when she's giving that battle speech to the army, I found that to be incredibly horrible voice acting. Alistair's was better, but sadly for me to hear the better sounding speech I have to kill Loghain. Damn you Bioware!! Er... I mean Anora!!Lying Memories (talk) 06:52, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Wow Lying Memories - that's kinda brutal. Think you can do a better job do you? Mika

Cailan barren
Recent edits by anonomas user 24.141.139.138 state "But it may be Cailan who is barren, with all the affairs he's had, yet no bastards mentioned." This is speculative, since the only affair we know of is with Celien and their is no indicate they met yet, hardly objective, and simply out of place. We present the information that is given in the game, not guessed. If you believe such a mention should be added, please do so but do so with objectivity and add sources.--Ironreaper (talk) 14:17, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

Awakening
"If the Warden romanced Alistair and made Anora the sole monarch, Alistair, the "king", will show up instead of Anora to speak with his love."

This did not happen for me in the PS3 version. I romanced Alistair, put Anora on the throne, and both Alistair and I survived the final battle with the archdemon. Yet in Awakening, Anora showed up instead of him. I feel cheated! --LynOfSacae (talk) 21:36, February 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * Hmm, this should have been listed as being a bug in the article. I've added the "citation needed" tag to it, because it should at least list what platforms it occurs on. I play on the Xbox and PC but I never make Anora queen, so I have no idea if this is really a bug. Kelcat (talk) 22:08, February 5, 2014 (UTC)


 * You feel cheated because a bug didn't happen? :) Can you say what version of the game you have, LynOfSacae? -Sophia (talk) 22:39, February 5, 2014 (UTC)


 * My PS3 says I have version 1.01 for Origins. I assume that's the version for Awakening too, because I don't see a separate game data file for it. LynOfSacae (talk) 16:40, February 16, 2014 (UTC)

Anora in Dragon Age II
I think that trivia about Anora recording lines for Dragon Age II should be removed. The only provided source is the IMDb listing and IMDb credits, despite being pre-moderated, are not a reliable source and are known to sometimes include incorrect information. Another thing is that unlike other cut content, there is no indication of possible Anora's role in the game files. 09:10, June 18, 2014 (UTC)