User:Polexian/Approval/doc

=Polexian's Concept=

Here is a new template. I would like everyone's feedback on it. Polexian  ♦♦Talk♦♦ ♠♠Leave Message♠♠ 04:32, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

Comments
Hey this one looks very nice! They need to be bigger though, so they can have their names listed below for the [Ctrl+F] search. Fy can  [ fahy - kan ] @ 13:39, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

=Hollow's Concept= Golden and Broken Heart's, no companion images no character links, simplistic in game look and to the point.

Alistair approves (+10) Morrigan disapproves (-10). for example.

Point Form
 * Ico_Appr_Heart.png Alistair approves (+10)
 * Ico_Appr_Heart.png Alistair approves (+10)
 * Ico_Appr_Heart.png Alistair approves (+10)
 * Ico_DisAppr_Heart.png Morrigan disapproves (-10)

Paragraph


 * The Warden has the choice of either letting Jowan escape, killing him, or keeping him locked up. If you kill him, it will be impossible to save Connor without first visiting the Circle of Mages. If he is freed, he will run off and try and help reappearing later when you speak to Isolde. Freeing him has the effects: Ico_DisAppr_Heart.png Alistair disapproves (-5), Ico_DisAppr_Heart.png Sten disapproves (-5), and also improving Ico_Appr_Heart.png Morrigan approves (+7) and Ico_Appr_Heart.png Leliana approves (+2). The Warden has the choice of either letting Jowan escape, killing him, or keeping him locked up. If you kill him, it will be impossible to save Connor without first visiting the Circle of Mages. If he is freed, he will run off and try and help reappearing later when you speak to Isolde.

Table

w/ color (optional)

Alistair approves  Morrigan disapproves

Alistair  Morrigan

Alistair  Morrigan

Alistair  Morrigan  Morrigan  /

I'd like to see the in game golden hearts and darkened broken hearts. I am fine with the current red/green colored text because you can use it in the body of a paragraph, point form, tables with little to no template issues. But if we were going to have a template I'd say the hearts/broken hearts. 05:13, February 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Also are we going to have a simplified version for the dialogue pages this is what we currently have Shale/Dialogue. or are we going to have countless icons on those pages? 06:30, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

Heart Templates and (+)/(-) Temps.
+ / - w/ brackets and color

These work for:


 * , bullet
 * , #list
 * , indent


 * , no hearts

Comments
Ok, the test templates are good, but we have to use one template for both of them.. We don't need multiple templates out there that one template can do the same thing, so I have edited mine to do what your test templates do User:Hollowness. I like


 * That is just an opinion (we us 2 different color stat templates) and it is just a test template anyways, I just pulled it together in 3 minutes for visual. And more you took the Approval named template I couldn't rightly just use yours :P and even if my concept isn't taken I am using them for myself 18:34, February 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Polexian's thought.
 * The Warden has the choice of either letting Jowan escape, killing him, or keeping him locked up. If you kill him, it will be impossible to save Connor without first visiting the Circle of Mages. If he is freed, he will run off and try and help reappearing later when you speak to Isolde.

I think it is unnecessary to have the link of the companion name and I am still no keen on the character picture box, with multiple approves or disapproves the page will just be a wack-a-mole of heads with colored numbers. 18:24, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

=Simplified Concept= @Hollowness Thanks for the heads up about this discussion

I love the ideas so far, I'd like to throw in a simplified version of a previously proposed idea for inline:

Alistair +7 //CSS3, compatibility issues but works for screen readers

Alistair -7

Alistair +7 +7 //100% compatible, but duplicates approval number for screen readers (minor)

Alistair -7 -7

Alistair  //Preferred

Alistair

I don't think the icon + approval text is needed since they get the same information across. Even if the icon doesn't download properly "Alistair +/- 7" is still something people can understand. I am leaning towards the last two over the first two, simply because the icon behind the text is a bit hard to read. Also that if the icon doesn't download the +/-7 ends up inside Alistair.

For non-inline I think Polexian's icon concept is great, though I would tweak a tiny bit:

One thing I think is key is to use a mono-space font so the +/- (vs +/- ) come out the same. I'd also include a special spoiler flag in the template, both in-line and non-inline.

As to the complexity of the template, I tend to agree that the simpler the better. I think an optional flag based idea is best:

//icons is optional flag

In template (note that positions are estimates):

//assumes presence of array extention & there may be a more elegant way to do it

{{#if: 3 == icons |{{{!}} class="wikitable daotable" !Approval Changes {{!}}- {{#arrayprint: {{{chars}}} | |@@@@  |{{!}}  0     | #0f0     | #f00   }}   ; font-family: Courier New; font-size: 2.0em; font-weight: bold;"> {{#ifexpr: {{#arrayindex:approval|{{#arraysearch: {{{chars|@@@@}}} }} }} > 0 | +   | -     }}   {{#arrayindex:approval|{{#arraysearch: {{{chars|@@@@}}} }} }} }} {{!}}} |{{#arrayprint: {{{chars}}} |  |@@@@   |{{!}} *@@@@ Ico_   {{#ifexpr: {{#arrayindex:approval  0     | #0f0;"> + | #f00;"> -  }}{{#arrayindex:approval|{{#arraysearch: {{{chars|@@@@}}} }}} }}   }} }}

Jmjimmy 23:24, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * We don't have ArrayExtensions install FYI. -- 00:41, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Too bad - could do some awesome things with them. Any chance wikia would install it? (out of curiosity) Jmjimmy 01:15, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

//icons is optional flag this has been changed to support your request. Can't do multiple names, rates in the same template. Haven't figured out how to do that yet. Polexian ♦♦Talk♦♦Message♠♠ 18:51, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * JoePlay was nice enough to install the array extention for us so the code above (assuming that is isn't full of bugs due to formatting for readability) should work and include multiple names! Jmjimmy 19:19, February 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Do you know how to incorporate this in Template:Approval? if Yes, go for it.   Polexian  ♦♦Talk♦♦Message♠♠ 19:37, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Template Proposal
I've created a set of 3 templates that can handle a variety of scenarios. For consideration. //multiple characters with icons //multiple characters in list format //Colour change and "Approval" attachment with optional additional text colour changes //array based colour changes (for Template:Approval use more than user use) //Find element in array b at the same index point as the third variable in array a (needed for template but has uses for other templates that need to do an index based lookup)

For "Results" sections:

For inline use:

For non-character specific use (ie: "Maximum possible approval for this conversation: ) or dialogue pages:

For array use (not specific to approval):

=Combined Concept=

Here are the updated templates and how they work. You state if you want the image format on variable 2, the name of the character on variable 1 and approval rating. >0 being positive giving approval -1 or more negative giving disappoval. If more companions are added with approval for images we have to code them into the template. This template is a huge ifcheck to allow us to do 4 things in one template.

Polexian ♦♦Talk♦♦Message♠♠ 13:39, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

One template for dis and approave makes it so much easier. Polexian ♦♦Talk♦♦Message♠♠ 13:55, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

Remove Link
The link the the character needs to be removed. The color clashes with the approval color, and there's no need to have multiple links to the characters - especially if there's a Reaction section that lists their reaction to everything. -- 19:06, February 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Can you fix these indentations? -- 19:06, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

=Overall Comments= I want to keep Approval easy to use - so lets eliminate the image/noimage unnamed variable and it to. You can add the style as a additional named modifier after that -. And it can default to inline.

@User:Hollowness, I love your and  idea! That's a brilliant suggestion and I like that Polexian recognized that your idea is a good one and adopted it.

My vote for the  style goes to  Alistair approves   Morrigan disapproves. Its easy to read, doesn't have too much color and conveys the approval/disapproval in the very simplest way. Simple is very good!

As for the  style, I like what you've got so far Polexian. A couple of suggestion and its all regarding alignment. You will want to align the approval changes so that it has a small margin to the right and bottom of the number. You might also want to tweak the size - I'm not sure bigger or smaller is good. Try both. And finally, find an icon representing the characters that's square.

@Polexian, nice work! I like it so far. But I can see you've some tweaking to go.

p.s. please try to keep it civil re: deletion/approval templates. @Hollowness, if you're still working on a prototype, you might want to consider using something in your namespace like User:Hollowness/Template/Approval. @Polexian, I understand that you feel very passionately about your work. Hollowness wanted to give some input and that her way of contributing to the idea pool.

I love the template ideas I'm seeing! -- 19:23, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

No there was no prototypes, I am fine with my templates, just if my templates were chosen and one template was asked then it have be modified. And if my templates were not chosen, I will be using them as is for personal use. . 19:33, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

So Hollowness do you want to take your templates and put them into the Approval Template and let a switch statement control which heart to show like Tierrie suggested? Then after we get the initial template set up, we could then install the icon's for it. We could also change colornegative to be hard coded into the template or not, or we could rewrite both those codes to set the color green or red based on the number, positive number green, negative number red. Zero, white... or green.. What do you think? Polexian  ♦♦Talk♦♦Message♠♠ 02:36, February 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * There was that what you wanted? 04:11, February 12, 2010 (UTC)



Something like that should take care of it. I'd even template it so you could just use anywhere. Personally I wouldn't bother with zero - there's no real reason to document no change in my mind. Jmjimmy 03:35, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

That is good, but we have to use switch statements do drive it so we can keep the template on the same line as the stuff we want to approval on, if that makes any sense.
 * 1) This outputs this


 * 1) This outputs this


 * 1) When it should output this Ico_Appr_Heart.png Alistair Approves(+1)


 * Ya, that has to do with indents, templates with images seem to all do that. I'd love to know how to fix that cause it happens to mini Icon minis too, see: Woot fixed it!



I don't know why, but it does so I just avoid indents but if that can be fixed that be great. 21:43, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Do we have to have...
The 'Character Icon' /w approval #, It just seems unnecessary to me, I mean, , and a simplified  /  for the dialogue pages (if we can get the templates to work on indents without the mess up, for Jmjimmy), seem good enough to me. Why are we needing to see the character pics, it can easily clutter up a page and just does nothing for me personally. 01:22, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

The icon flag is there just in case someone wants to use it. No body will usually use it, but it's there. As for the 0, I don't think we need it either since if it is zero then we won't even put it there, right... Polexian ♦♦Talk♦♦Message♠♠ 04:00, February 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * ok, so are we adding the simplified version to the template too? I am going to start the update of the approval, since I have the time tonight. I won't touch the dialog pages till we have the simplified version done (ie. Ico DisAppr Heart.png /Ico Appr Heart.png, this is my preference, I don't know what will be chosen).  04:47, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Suggestions
One suggestion would be to add a white glow effect to the and  as they can be hard to discern on a dull LCD Jmjimmy 01:28, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * A quick example: Ico DisAppr Heart Example.png]] [[File:Ico DisAppr Heart Example.png Jmjimmy 01:38, February 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * I brightened the hearts, originally I just only cropped the for a quick example that developed into use I wasn't quite expecting originally. I don't think the white grey will work since there is a chance it will be on a grey background so I did red. Ico DisAppr Heart.png 04:02, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah that makes it a lot easier to see against black. Thanks! Jmjimmy 04:52, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Np, it's not something I noticed right away, if you didn't point it out, I wouldn't have known to improve :D 04:57, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

After some Testing
After implementing on the new template on these articles, Lost in the Castle, Redcliffe Castle - Main Floor, Redcliffe Castle - Basement, Templar Quarters and Merchant (Lothering), I noticed the template is too specific. Lots of rework / rewrite will have to be done if the template is absolute. I suggest the choice of Approval template, heart icons ( / ) and/or color positive/negative color with # in brackets theme (ie. / .  So as long as the theme is kept, little to changes will be needed, unless a mass rework is wanted.


 * (Approval Template)

Approval|heart|5}}


 * (Approval Template)


 * Simplified (Approves Template)


 * Simplified w/out heart (+ Template)

I know one template wants to be used but since a simplified version is asked for dialog pages, I thought this might be an idea, too many hearts on a page might be an issue. 07:56, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Rewrote Approval one last time, I hope. Now we can print just the heart and broken heart plus the number like Hallowness wants.

Approval|heart|5}}


 * (Approval Template)


 * I suggest we remove approves and disapproves templates since Hollowness and I, working with teamwork, put together a template to do all things we need to do for approval.


 * I suggest we delete Template:ColorNegativeStat and Template:ColorPositiveStat since Hollowness's templates Template:+ and Template:- does it much better. We redirected the old ones to + and - respectfully until we get the dependancies removed? Started a Forum on this.

Polexian ♦♦Talk♦♦Message♠♠ 14:37, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * what happens when a new DLC character arrives? Jmjimmy 16:35, February 14, 2010 (UTC)