User talk:Loleil/Archive 7

Ostagar
Do you know if there's any news on when the PS3 DLC will be released? Warden Of The Dales 12:31, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

Random article for front page
Done! Though I wish I'd waited, as when I first tried to edit the front page, it hung my IE session and seems to have lost me my article on the Dales I had just spent over an hour on and had almost finished. I was about ready to weep! I'm still hoping the session will start responding again - it seems to have got caught in some sort of loop as additional IE buttons keep appearing and disappearing on my taskbar. Have you ever seen anything like it? Eh well, that's the last time I try to edit two articles in the same window. Oh, and let me know if you think the front page article display any tweaks. --Zoev 02:14, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I really just wanted some sympathy. I'm starting over, but I know it won't take me anywhere near as long this time as I know where I'm getting the info from. I use IE7 too and I agree pages take far longer to load than they should. I also find when editing this wiki that the longer I'm editing, the slower things go. I sometimes end up writing stuff in Notepad then copying it into the edit textbox. If only I'd been doing that this time! --Zoev 02:41, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've just had a quick look through the various articles in the hope that inspiration for others to include might strike, but you're right there aren't that many obvious candidates! The main thought I had was to include pieces the main companions other than Dog - but you must have already considered that. I've recently expanded and tidied the articles on Elvhenan and the Dales (twice!) but I'm not sure they're big or important enough for inclusion on the front page. They could both probably do with some spell/grammar-checking too. I was going to ask about using the functionality to create our own wiki-stickies to appeal for someone to double-check my work, but the option to do that seems to have vanished again! --Zoev 05:38, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * The trouble with the side-quests, I suppose, is that it is really hard to write much without spoilers - though perhaps something could be done for the Job Board as there's a fair bit of background on the different types? And with respect to the companions, do you think it's fair to say that any info that's on the DA:O official site characters page shouldn't count as a spoiler? If so, then we could possibly steal shamelessly from the background info on that site to get the c100 words! Let me know if you'd like me to have a go at any summary articles. I quite like doing short and sweet things like that as a change from the bigger tasks of overahuling the lore category and codex! --Zoev 01:31, January 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed on the non-spoiler-ness of the BioWare info, then. Just let me know who, if anyone, you want me to draft featured articles for. I don't want to duplicate work you're doing! Oh, and I forgot to mention that I also did some work on the Chant of Light article, so that's another possibility. --Zoev 05:52, January 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, Chant of Light featured article now created and added (along with Alistair's) to the random generator template. Please do check and fiddle with the article if you can be bothered. I'll create articles for the other companions based on the BioWare marketing info as and when I have a few moments. --Zoev 14:56, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

Re:Alistair's Silver cross sword
I figured out how to get it. You keep his original Warden's Longsword and upgrade it in the party chest at Warden's Keep. Simple! Warden Of The Dales 14:20, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

Tanking Page Needs Additional Information
The tanking article does not discuss all the possibilities. A sword and board tank with an all dex build can be a subcategory of the evasion tank. It has the best of both worlds, and is far superior over a constitution build.

Check out my blog to understand why: http://social.bioware.com/426838/blog/1581/

Suggested Strategy guide format
Reposting from my talk page:

Well, unfortunately strategy guides are formulated around observation which is colored by personal opinion. However my intended format was going to be something along the lines of:

Sword and Shield Pros:


 * Greatest Number of single target crowd control options
 * Lowest overall activation costs
 * Tree is separated such that manuvers can be purchased seprately from sustained abilities making it easier to achieve desired style with minimal ability point cost

Cons:
 * Lowest Basic damage, requiring friequent ability use to compensate
 * Sustained abilities require further investment in Tree to offset penalties
 * Only single weapon is used, thus limiting number of rune slots
 * Moderate Strength and Dexterity Requirements

Suggestions: The "Sword and Board" Warrior is arguably the easiest build for starting players, this is especially true if playing the Human or Dwarf Noble as both origins start with a point in shield bash. With the various options for stunning or knocking down opponents, enemy casters and grabbers can be easily interupted whereas the shield modes make the harrying attacks of enemy archers far less likely to succeed. Furthermore The Shield Wall + Shield Mastery combo makes fights against large sized opponents who prefer knockdown and knockback tactics far more manageable as the Warrior is able to keep their place and continue attacking uninterupted. When combined with the Champion's Warcry + Superiority combo, the crowd control options become nearly inexhaustable as long as the warrior recouperates stamina. It is recommended that the player reserve one or more tactics slots such that at least one of the crowd control abilities is used when the non-controlled charaacter is being attacked. In this way the non-controlled character can keep itself defended while the player's attention is focused elsewhere. If a warrior companion's pre-determined fighting style is not to the player's liking, the sword and shield tree provides an easily accessed low-investment alternative.

Is this neutral enough? --Sonevar 21:03, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for Welcoming Me!
It's a pleasure contributing to the Dragon Age Wiki!

Video
Hey Loleil what do you think of the video on my home page? Warden Of The Dales 23:27, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

Just around on You Tube Warden Of The Dales 07:05, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Welcome back
It was getting boring in the limelight. -- 06:32, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Admin privileges
Hi Loleil. Thanks for the confirmation that I now have admin rights. I'll have a look at the pages to which you gave me links, and will do my best to be a useful and active admin. --Zoev 07:17, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Videos
I've been thinking (never a good idea but i had a bash at it anyway) We can upload videos to the wiki but apart from the few on DLC trailers and those on user pages I've never seen any. You got any thoughts on this? Or is there really a deep dark reason I'm not supposed to know about? :) Warden Of The Dales 22:46, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

New Awakenings trailer
Hi Loleil. Just spotted there's been a new Awakenings trailer announced on the Social Site. I have absolutely no idea how we'd go about putting this on the front page (I've never really gotten behind the idea of moving pictures on the internet!). But if someone else were to embed it there, I think I could then develop it into a template that would randomly show either the old trailer or the new one. Or had, say, a 75% chance of showing the new trailer and a 25% chance of showing the old one. Or a 50% chance of the new Awakenings trailer, a 25% chance of showing the RtO trailer and a 25% chance of showing the old Awakenings trailer. If that were desirable! 03:40, January 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * She already beat you to it sunshine. -- 03:45, January 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I was just coming back as I'd just realised that! I could have sworn it wasn't there a moment ago ... oh well, I'm catching up now. Anyways, the suggestion about randomizing trailers still stands if anyone else thinks it would be a good idea (perhaps after the new trailer has had a few days' exposure?) 03:58, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

How do I get to the Tomes page?
Would you add this to the sidelist under items?
 * Items
 * Consumables
 * Tomes
 * Tome of the Mortal Vessel
 * Tome of Skill and Sundry
 * Tome of Physical Technique
 * Tome of Arcane Technique
 * Tome of Ethereal Suggestion

Vandalism
Ban this user ASAP please.

99.90.145.178

Change these pages to registered users only please since they are high use pages.

Companions Dragon_Age:_Origins (from User:Polexian)


 * I've blocked the user (I hope - first time I've tried it). I'll leave it to you to decide whethter the pages should be restricted - I know you were thinking about which pages should be restricted pretty recently. By the way, I just blocked the user for 3 days with no action beforehand as they were anonymous and clearly a vandal and their languate was ... inappropriate. I hope that's okay. 12:49, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Awakening
Do you think it's time to put that Oghren is the returning companion as you can plainly see him in the new trailer? Warden Of The Dales 19:28, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

stuck
could you help me out with a little problem i seem to be having? after i got the ageless sword which required my party to not follow me, they wont follow me anymore. can you tell me how i can fix this?

Anders
1. We have a problem if you click on Anders' profile on the companion section it re-directs to the Anderfels

2. Is it me or do all the awakening trailers end with Lord of The Rings theme music? Warden Of The Dales 22:30, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Policy categories
OK, so I'm 99.9999% sure you already know this, but just on the outside chance it's somehow escaped your notice, we seem to have two policy categories, Category:Policies and Category:Policy. From the pages in them, I'm guessing the former is the legacy and soon to be obsolete category. 23:04, February 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think you're quite right that they're not really relevant to us. And they'll still be there on wikipedia if an issue arises whose resolution requires a policy one of these topics, so we can reintroduce them at short notice if needs be. It would be great to clear out the policy broken links from the Most Wanted list! At most, I'd say it might be handy to have brief bullet points in Dragon Age Wiki:Editing Guidelines about how unattributable info will be removed from articles if challenged and our deletion policy, but I don't think we need anything that complex. I could have sworn we already had a a line about bold editing somewhere, but maybe a sentence about that in the Dragon Age Wiki:Editing Guidelines would be good too, though I don't think lack of boldness is an issue we come across often! 23:57, February 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, and while I was leafing through policy/guidance pages I noticed that in the first paragraphy of Dragon Age Wiki:Community Portal it says "To see the most recent discussions, click the Discussion tab above." I popped a link to the Wiki Discussion forum and the new projects page on the talk page so that info isn't entirely misleading - I didn't like to change the portal page itself, but perhaps you could take a look and see whether you think the first paragraph could do with a bit of a shake-up? 02:45, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just spotted some more guff in, and in the form of, Category:Watercooler and Category:Help desk (ie that Category:Community and Category:Organisation more generally could do with a bit of tidying). Do you think we should get rid of the watercooler and helpdesk categories, and perhaps add the top level Forums category into Community rather than Organisation? 11:47, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Re: NOoooooo
You're a dork! So there's a story behind my avatars - I have a quirk where I have to give my avatars a name, and that name has to be in the form of AdjectiveAdverbAnimal. The one I used forever since I joined the wiki was named IrrefutablyCuteCat. This one is named InexplicablyHappyCat. A few days ago I found a picture so adorable I invented a new avatar, and for a brief moment you got to see IrrepressiblyExhuberantTurtle. Because com'on, that turtle. Its irrepressibly exuberant. -- 04:30, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well it was a better name than my second choice. Amen, Turtle. -- 05:47, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Project Genitivi
Hi there Loleil. Just a quick heads up that I've now created Dragon Age Wiki:Project Genitivi: Codex with some info about the codex strand of Project Genitivi. Got to do some other stuff now, but I'll carry on filling in project details as soon as I get a chance. 15:55, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Cat. items
 Quote: Items included with ItemTransformer will show up as 0. This is a bug because Template:ItemTransformer inherits Template:ItemInfoBox which includes. Someone's gonna have to go in and manually insert Category:Item to the items so I can finally remove it from the InfoBox -- 06:16, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

So naturally, since all iteminfobox were auto cat. as items and I said to Tierrie I'd add the cat items to all iteminfoboxes. Can you confirm with Tierrie, please, or else why would it be asked? I'll stop till you guys double check that, I only added it to the ingredients/recipes/plot items (which just happen to include Juggernaut set). 07:33, February 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * But did you double check with Tierrie, I don't want to get a message about, "why did you not do armor and weapons!". Cause I plan to do that all tonight and not have loose ends on it. 07:48, February 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * But, ya, I was a little confused to see that armor set as a plot item, I thought it was just me tho. 07:49, February 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * I thought all items/equipment/armor were base on the infoboxes and it covered that, if your sure I'll take your word on it :) 08:16, February 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * I can go either way on the armor and weapons. Wiki-wise we consider everything items except things we can wear - and those we can call equipment. The only reason some weapon/armor/accessory has the Category:Item category right now is because it used to utilize ItemTransformer instead of the current (and more specific) Armor/Weapon/AccessoryTransformer. -- 08:25, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Need Help
Thanks for the help!

As for the page name, I do need ideas. The notion bouncing around the Talk:Money page is that Money will be shorter one-line tips on how to accumulate gold. Lyrium Potions for Profit (or whatever it's called) would detail methods to infinitely increase the money supply 'outside' of your normal questing, killing, looting, and selling. And a third page will probably be needed to highlight which quests or other 'normal gameplay' activities that either a) give great income, b) give good income for a little time invested, or c) give decent income in the early-game, where money is in real short supply. Currently this is a quickly expanding list of quests that pay well, but its cluttering the Money page. So the distinction is Money, general page for accumulating; Profitable Quests, for a list of things to do early to quickly get much of the money the game has to offer; and Profit, for squeezing more gold than is available out of the game. I just made up those names and am too sleepy to tell how good/bad they are.

Redirect and Rename look easy, thanks much.

Just to make sure I understand the Main template: in the context I need it for, it seems to both link a redundant section of page B back to consolidated page A, while at the same time warning against expanding or editing the section on B since A is actually the main article?

So, for example, I might change the Exploits#Potent Lyrium Potions or General Tips sections from their current text to read:

Infinite Gold

 * (or whatever we're calling it) details the only legitimate method of infinitely increasing the amount of money available in this otherwise very tight-fisted game.

Thanks again,

J e l l y b u g 12:17, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Companions
Did you have a chance to look at the companions example I gave? Polexian ♦♦Talk♦♦Message♠♠ 03:38, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Quests Page
Would like to do a new layout on the quest page. What do you think? User:Polexian/Sandbox Polexian ♦♦Talk♦♦Message♠♠ 03:58, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

hello :)
hello :) its my first time to use talk page so i hope im not doing the wrong thing and asking some help over here..

i just basically need some advice on how to get leliana's personal side quest.

i play on PS3 and followed the conversation walkthrough here as well.

currently i am on my redcliffe castle mission (finished circle as my first major quest)

i dont know how to look at how much approval leliana have towards be but judging by the bar i can

estimate about 60-65%. i dont have any new dialogue options with her. im tryng to get the approval

down by doing some negative actions. still i dont have her quest.. any tips on this? thank you and ill appreciate it.

Lexecutioner

For/See/See Also
I stumbled across this page - Dragon_Age_Wiki:Templates. Did you know about its existance? It seems to handily explain the usage of all the usual templates. The information still seems current but could bear a little update. You might want to also point new people to it so they properly use Note, See and all the other editing templates. -- 01:12, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

What do you think?
Needs a little clean up, yes, but this is a prototype.

Polexian ♦♦Talk♦♦Message♠♠ 13:33, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

RE:Recipe
What have we learned today girls? We learned that you should always close your curly braces. -- 17:59, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

eeek
Don't just remove item transformers without checking if they are use as templates else where, you do realize by you removing it till I fixed it has had the entire money making page on the Mad Hermit article and who knows where else : / 20:03, February 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Because before the article was Money and was being as an item, I was desperate about it because it was asked of me from Zoev and this was a blunder back fire, forgive my abruptness I don't think it was rude just to the point. 00:13, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ya, I mean it was was my first surprise and find for the morning so, I honestly didn't even did another read through. I must admit I am a little extra sensitive to it said just because I feel myself is getting another user's brunt and I do feel a little regret :( cause everyone could use a little more 'nice' in life and a little less abruptness. 00:31, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * So let's try again, 'Morning, Star-shine, the earth says "Hello!"' :D (I love that line it makes me feel a little better when down cause its cute and funny) :D 00:33, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, cool I changed it to currency page instead, yes, that is far more appropriate, it was just at the time money seems the appropriate but with the move no longer, all good now. 00:42, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

Sunshine!
Thanks for removing Awakening from the DLC page sunshine. I was going to do it after we created an Expansion page and then properly crosslinked the pages with Template:See and all that junk. Then I got sidetracked with this really cool shiny toy I got. It blinks and everything. -- 02:32, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

Demo
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Proin luctus scelerisque mi, vitae laoreet magna fringilla ac. Proin in justo a nisl egestas hendrerit quis in libero. Aliquam erat volutpat. Donec ipsum leo, tristique sed molestie at, placerat vel lorem. Pellentesque auctor tellus ac erat venenatis eu tempus ipsum tempus. Etiam luctus porttitor turpis, sit amet congue enim malesuada quis. Donec ut lacus sapien, suscipit tristique magna. In eu tellus libero, nec porta nunc. Mauris sit amet augue quam, quis eleifend dui. Vivamus fermentum sagittis mauris quis fermentum. Nam aliquam rhoncus metus non lacinia. Quisque cursus ipsum vel augue tristique id dapibus ligula blandit. -- 20:27, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hover your mouse over the one sentence that seems out of place. -- 00:54, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I didn't get it either, it had to be 'splained' to me :P 00:56, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Aha! That's very clever. 00:59, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * All I got was Juggernaut Helm armor box show up. I LIKEY!   Polexian  ♦♦Talk♦♦Message♠♠ 19:05, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Dragon age...
When do you think DAO will go on sale? I really need a computer copy so I can take screen shots of the stuff. Xbox 360 sucks in that comparison. Polexian ♦♦Talk♦♦Message♠♠ 02:39, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Yea, Ebay, never thought of that. going there now, thanks. Oh, American region here, I'm surprised they released DAO in Australia, with yalls strick ratings. Polexian ♦♦Talk♦♦Message♠♠ 02:45, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Ebay.. 23 dollars, thanks again! Won snipping! Polexian ♦♦Talk♦♦Message♠♠ 19:04, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Request
Please Lock Arcane Warrior Spellcasting from unregistered users, unregistered users seem to like to change info incorrectly and recently removing all spells that are not sheathed with arguments, who cares about non-sheathed. When The point of the article is to see all spells and which can and cannot be sheathed or N/A as an overview, I tend to fix or see this article get messed up then fixed, often. 21:51, February 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * I've given it two weeks of protection. If there are still bad edits beings made after that I'll give a longer level of protection. 22:53, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

+X% Healing Received Bug Article
Hi there! I have no idea how to add categories and links appropriate for such an article. Maybe it should be made into a sub-section in some other article concerning healing or gear modifiers? Although, admittedly, I have seen none... Anyway, feel free to move/merge/edit it as you find necessary :) IN 21:58, February 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * My initial thought would be to make it a note for the spells it affects. I'm no expert on mechanics, but I shall keep an eye out for the right pages. 22:13, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

If my memory serves me well, it's six spells (Heal, Regeneration, Group Heal, Lifeward, Cleansing Aura, Drain Life), one talent (Devour), and four types of health poultices. It's not a crazy amount of work, so I'll do it myself. Thank you for the idea! :) IN 22:29, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good stuff . 22:53, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Done. I've updated the articles dedicated to gear pieces having this property (that seemed a better option than updating spell/talent/poultice articles, since various healing methods/items are connected to the issue rather tangentially). There is also an alphabetical list of +X% healing equipment attached to the main article now. IN 09:43, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

Locations Forum Updated
I updated the concept, FYI. Maybe if you like it can be implemented, then we can see what else should can be merged and refine the page layout/style further. By the way, wow on that spam, what was that about lol. 01:04, February 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, the top part too Forum:Locations:_Icons,_infoboxes_and_stuff, that sample was from a few days ago. 01:37, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

Suggestions
Any suggestions I have made about using Hollowness's templates on this wiki, please disregard. He does not want me to make suggestions that I think can improve this wiki. And as I told him I will not be making any more suggestions that originated from him. Polexian ♦♦Talk♦♦Message♠♠ 04:36, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

Another question
The article in question is Tanking: An Alternative Approach. Hollowness made a suggestion to merge it with Tank. That's what I had to say in my defense:

"Concerning your suggestion to merge Tanking: An Alternative Approach with Tank. I've explained in the first paragraph of the article why I think it would be counter-productive to add it as a third section to the Tank article: my starting assumptions are very different from those of Tank author(s). It's a different theory with different weight assigned to most stats and properties. People will just get totally confused by the lack of inner consistency in Tank article. I have had no problem contributing an alternative strategy for Shale as a sub-section in her section in Companion Strategies article, but there a situation was vastly different, as there were no conflicting theories present in the same article to confuse the potential reader. Talk page is not an option, IMHO: not many people ever bother to read those, and since I've put some effort into formulating this stuff, I naturally don't want it to get buried there."

And also:

"No problem, I'll drop a message to Loleil. Hopefully, we'll reach some compromise on the matter. I fully understand the reasons: it's obvious no strategy guide, especially an unorthodox one, can be objective. However, the existing Tank page is no better in this respect. Currently, it reflects the point of view of its author, not the objective truth (if we assume such thing exists). Anyway, thank you for pointing it out, I'll discuss it with Loleil."

So, well, I'm discussing it with Loleil, I suppose :) IN 23:33, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

Since Tierrie is away
I have had a most unpleasant experience and it is getting out of control. I am getting very upset and I just can't handle it anymore. It is spread out between: Forum:Approval, Forum:Color(Negative,Positive) Stats, User_talk:Hollowness, and User_talk:Tierrie (and maybe more there is conversations behind my back about it/me too), I thought I was explaining myself and have been as civil and respectful as I can but I do not feel I am getting that treatment in return. I have to stop because explaining isn't making this better and its just getting worse. I am getting very very upset over this (srsly I have to have a bubble bath now :, sorry to have to bring you unpleasantries. 02:35, February 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * I still feel the behind my back thing because it wasn't in the forums (nor I cc'd) and I no one reads everyones else's posts and the only reason I saw Tierrie's was because I was there to leave a message about it and never the less I was bashed. I didn't know that he gave you a message too, now I am even more upset. I have removed myself from the approval template crap because I had enough. The main heart and formats were all my idea his was only the icons which was that from what I can under stand originally Tierrie's, then did changes to my templates when he had his own. Since community projects seem to have such a horrible outcomes (he attempted to delete my templates, then changed them, then offered them for other uses to others, all without consulting me. Then he was attempting mass layout changes on the Gifts page where we just redid and I had to ask Tierrie for permission and approval first so I told him to talk to him first.). From now on, I will only work with admins and/or my own (with admin approval if it is a big one). I feel terrible that my idea that seem to be loved has become a negative unpleasant ordeal. I am sorry that even though you think yo see both sides, I know that if this was happening to Tierrie and his templates, he react similar but be listened to.  07:44, February 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * It sounds like the just of it, I don't know why you have simplified as if I am the only one who expects this, I am just relaying how this wiki works in terms of what an admin will let you know on (everything I have ever relayed to other users has been basically already mentioned to me by admins or I have seen admins say to others) and shit preventing (what can I say I feel I am not just an editor, I am a janitor too, got to keep this place clean when I can). When I express my concerns I get attitude and get everything I have said has been twisted into a I don't like suggestions, which is not true. Maybe I should have just said please don't touch my templates and let him go gun-ho and let you and Tierrie see the possible mess/mass change and let you tell him: please wait on admin approval before changing elements that effect most of the wiki. I thought I was fair and just in saying: 'woah man, hold off Tierrie just changed that like a week ago if you change it and he might tell you off.' and 'that there seems like Tierrie is project/admin head on that you may want to make sure he is cool with that change'. I just thought, leaving a message to Tierrie, basically taddle tailing on people seems sneaky, sneaky like Polexian telling all the admins: 'cause of Hollowness, I am just not going to make suggestions anymore'. I mean at this point I have 2 options I am willing to take, 1. follow by admin guidelines and wishes and when users go against that advise them that they may want to double check with admins and work with admins other or on my own. 2. Or let users do w/e the hell they want and watch you guys find the messes and not find the messes and watch you guys have similar conversations with the users as I would have, except if they argue with you, you can say they aren't gonna have it that way sorry have a good day. I must say I am more prone to option 1 because I feel it is more contributing and less counter effective.  10:02, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Templates
I have tried to resolve my problems with her, but have come to no avail. I have no problem with her, but she got upset when I changed one of her Template:+ to User:Polexian/+ which just put some ifchecks in there so it could do multiple things. It was a translucent edit. I'm a firm believer that if the code can be cut down to work more efficiently then do it. I enjoy working with her and she has a lot of awesome ideas that I can work off of, but I don't know how to make things better. Polexian ♦♦Talk♦♦Message♠♠ 11:16, February 16, 2010 (UTC)