User talk:69.163.243.32

Hi, welcome to the Dragon Age Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Cone of Cold page.

Please sign in and create a user name. It's an easy way to keep track of your contributions and helps you communicate with the rest of the community. Plus, registered users only see ads on the main page!

If you are new to Wikia or wikis in general, please visit the Community portal for an outline of some of the main parts of the site and links to pages that tell you how to edit.

Discussion of any aspect of the site, and enquiries, can be made at the Forum or on the Talk page associated with each article. Please sign and date (using four tildes ~ ) any messages you post on either the forum or talk pages, so that readers know who they're talking to.

Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Loleil (Talk) 19:03, 2010 March 4

Your note to 'Cone of Cold' article
Can I get a source, please? From my experience, enemies do resist the deep-freeze effect of CoC, which couldn't possibly happen if their physical resistance was indeed considered -1. I must add I haven't used this spell at all since v. 1.00, so maybe this bug was introduced in 1.01/1.02. If the info is extracted directly from the script, just copy and paste the relevant line(s) here. Thanks in advance! IN 19:13, March 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, I've done some testing on pre-Fort Drakon Ser Cauthrien on Nightmare with CoC cast by 20, 50 and 100+ SP mage. The deep-freeze was consistently successful, so you were right - it is bugged in v. 1.02. Still, it would be nice of you to provide a source for erroneously assigned -1 physical resistance value. P. S.: High-quality clarifying notes on various spell mechanics aspects, overall. Keep up the good work! Did you test the immunities yourself, though, or is it second-hand info? I'm only asking if I need to double-check it, in other words :) IN 14:16, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

I hooked into the resistance checks with the Toolset and logged the resistance values. The check is done in sys_resistances_h.nss:ResistanceCheck

The -1 is set in: float fResistance = GetCreatureProperty(oDefender, nDefendingResistance);

The immunities are from the Toolset. The *.utc under _Core_Creatures have Talents for immunities, e.g. TRAIT_NATURE_IMMUNITY.


 * Yes, you are 100% correct. I was asking, since -1 in int effectResisted means just 'cannot be resisted'. But now it is evident that's not the case. Concerning the immunities: interestingly, both High Dragons (Flemeth and Mountain Top High Dragon) most definitely are not immune to fire damage, just 75% resistant. While I understand game mechanics do not always follow strict logic, I find it ridiculous lesser creatures of the same type are immune to fire. Anyway, I'll update my own resistance reference sheet and your Immunities page with relevant note concerning Dragon vs. High Dragon sub-types. IN 15:11, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

Please consider registering :)
You make great contributions and worthy clarifications. I'm really in bad need of someone having full access to the Toolset (I don't, since Vista conflicts critically with various Toolset components) and sharing my interest in game mechanics. 80% of the information you currently see here (especially on talents and DLC talents/spells; many of the spells were covered beforehand) was compiled by me from different sources, including a fair share of personal in-game experiments. But as far as Toolset is concerned, my access is pretty much limited, sadly, to 2DA .xls rules files and DA Builder Wiki. IN 14:24, March 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree, your contributions are very good and IMHO game mechanics are the most important reference on this wiki. Just think, if you sign up most of those annoying ads will go away and only the admins will see your ip (if you care about that). Doesn't cost you anything, so why not? Lufos 18:34, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Combat Mechanics Article
Overall, there is a lot of work to be done there, as you can see. I've started my work on compiling mechanics data on specific talents only a couple of weeks ago, so even these articles are far from perfect. I would appreciate your help: feel free to update the relevant general mechanics articles whenever you see some basic info is sorely missing (and you'll see a lot of it missing, trust me). Crit/backstab damage would be a very good point to start, I suppose :) IN 21:46, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Threat: nice work!
It was a huge terra incognita, save some basic testing and general info I've extracted from Zoeller's Missing Manual.

1. Are you 100% positive Threaten is not affected by Frightening Appearance? No mention of the bonus in any of the threat-related scripts?
 * Yes. There is a constant for the bonus but it's not used.--69.163.243.32 17:15, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

2. I'm changing some descriptions and articles according to your Toolset-based corrigenda. Nice work. What bothers me is this question: are there any threat base value multipliers for difficulties? I've seen mentioned several times that Walking Bomb deals 50 additional threat, doubled for Nightmare difficulty. G. Zoeller's Missing Manual lists a value of 5 additional threat, though. See any trace of this mechanism anywhere in the scripts? Of course, I won't be surprised if someone has just read the script totally wrong, and everyone was repeating that erroneous info since then. IN 15:35, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok. I had some things wrong. I have now instrumented the threat code and logged what is going on. There is indeed a 10 multiplier on the threat number for abilities / spells. The Walking Bomb (but not Virulent Walking Bomb) thing is correct.


 * There is an pretty substantial amount (around 100 points) of threat I can't account for that is added somehow after sighting the enemy and before dealing the first damage.


 * I tested the armor value and it makes no difference in threat.--69.163.243.32 17:15, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I tested the armor value and it makes no difference in threat. Regardless of difficulty level? IN 17:29, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I mean the actual numerical value (yes, I also tested on easy). There is the initial threat bonus upon sighting (5 threat for light armor, 10 for heavier stuff) at lower difficulties.--69.163.243.32 18:06, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I see. Thanks for the info! IN 18:14, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

That Ageless doesn't increase threat is verified as well.--69.163.243.32 18:06, March 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes. I've guessed that much. Increases/Reduces Hostility modifiers do not work, in other words. I'll add relevant notes to the item articles. IN 18:14, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

Some more testing. Special Talents (like Overpower, Assault, Flurry...) don't increase threat. The code is there but not invoked by the engine.--69.163.243.32 18:30, March 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Uh-huh... I know it's time-consuming, but can you produce a list of such talents? Do any active talents draw threat as per code? IN 18:33, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, all activated Talents (except Taunt of course). The 2x damage threat factor of Threaten works as well.


 * There is a function AI_Threat_UpdateAbilityImpact that gets properly invoked for spells, but not for Talents.


 * Tested: Mighty Blow, Pommel Strike, Critical Strike, Sunder Arm, Sunder Armor, Flurry, 2-Weapon Sweep, Shattering Shot, Scattershot, Shield Bash/Pummel, Overpower, Assault, Dirty Fighting, Mark of Death.--69.163.243.32 19:11, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I somehow missed that Scattershot partially works (probably only checked secondary targets). So there are actually 2 Talents, where additional Threat is applied.--69.163.243.32 14:13, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

I tried if the Bards Dancing Shoes affect the threat decay rate (normally 0.5 points per second), if they do, it's not substantial.


 * Thanks. Great job, as usual. I'll update the relevant talent articles in a couple of hours. It's a bit disturbing to see how many bugs unfixed there are in DA:O... It's a wonder its combat system works somehow as a whole :) IN 19:45, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

Wynne's Vessel of the Spirit
I think the mechanics of disorienting 5 m burst upon activation include re-setting threat generated to 1 (similar to Distraction). If only you could check it, whenever you have time... IN 20:14, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * There is no threat reset, it seems to generate about 10 threat though (same as Disorient). There nothing in the spell script to suggest it was intended either. --69.163.243.32 20:58, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks! IN 21:05, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

A question for you, I guess
http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Talents#Threat_info IN 23:59, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

question
On the spells page it says, "In addition to the threat number found in spell mechanics description (multiply by 10 to get the actual threat value)". Where exactly do I find this threat number?? Lufos 21:19, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * This is being updated right now. If there is nothing in the spell description, only damage-based threat applies. At least for some spells, there are bugs actually applying the additional threat - being tested right now. I'm in the process of removing the factor 10 thing and putting the real value in the descriptions.--69.163.243.32 21:25, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright, I'll check again later. Good work. Makes more sense to have the real value and not the factor 10 thing. Lufos 21:28, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

Waking Nightmare Note & Threat Multiplier
(1) You have Miasma mentioned in the note. Probably a typo or a cut & paste error. Please correct it yourself, since I have no idea whether to replace Miasma with Waking Nightmare in the text, or to remove the note altogether.
 * The note is there to tell Waking Nightmare users that it's a bad idea to run around with Miasma (if you don't want to be targeted). Threat values are quite close in typical scenarios and Miasma will make a big difference.--69.163.243.32 22:08, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. I'll merge it with the AoE spells note to make the point clear for the potential reader. Update: All right, you have made an appropriate clarification, so no need to merge. IN 22:14, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

(2) Also, I'll have to ask you to refrain from changing threat values spell by spell. It will put our readers in a very awkward situation: we have 20 (for example) mentioned in certain spell description. Now, since there is a general note on Spells page regarding the *10 multiplier, people will end up multiplying 20 by 10. The most user-friendly solution I can think of is either to change all the spell/talent articles to reflect the real values after the multiplier, or to ignore it for now, since we do have the general note on threat on Spells page. The choice is yours, but either way, consistency should be top priority in a hyper-link-based encyclopaedia.
 * I'm in the process of updating spells.--69.163.243.32 22:08, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay. IN 22:14, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Should be finished, unless I overlooked something.--69.163.243.32 23:39, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Splendid! IN 03:07, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

Otherwise, your studies in in-depth threat mechanics are priceless! :)

IN 22:01, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

DLC talents (Shale + Power of Blood)
As far as I know, a lack of precise information concerning those is a consequence of the relevant files being encrypted and unviewable with the Toolset. Still, I'd be extremely grateful if you give it a try. All the information on DLC talents in this Wiki is a fruit of my research and testing, and parts of it are either missing or imprecise. IN 02:07, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not sure what you are looking for. Like you said, the sources are not available. If you want, I can upload a script to dump party and enemy stats (can be run from the debug interface: http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Console ; no Toolset required). That would allow you to see regeneration rates.--69.163.243.32 10:14, March 11, 2010 (UTC)