Talk:Anders

Alter Redirect
In light of the fact that one of the new NPCs in Awakening will be a male mage named Anders, perhaps this redirect could be altered? AlexanderPrimus 22:36, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * The content of the redirect page can certainly be changed to include information about the character Anders, with just a disambiguation statement at the top of the page with a link to Anderfels. This could be done now if the character is officially confirmed. I can't spot this anywhere obvious - do you have a link? Thanks! 13:08, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

You can find confirmation here: http://pc.ign.com/articles/106/1065425p1.html and here: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/9/index/896863/3#902055. 63.224.110.33 15:55, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry... didn't realize my computer had logged me out. AlexanderPrimus 15:55, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Changes made. 02:46, February 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeh sorry about that. When I made the page, I was getting confused, so I put it under "Anders (companion)" as you might do if there was more than one of something on other wikis. Thanks for changing it :) Kranitoko 19:44, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

join or die?
On the main Anders page it mentions that when you recruite Anders he'll either join or die. Is the a referrance to the templers or can he die through the joining? Either way there needs some clarification. Da&#39;Bardman 21:35, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Romance - Sort of?
I managed to earn a 100 (Love) approval with Anders using a female Orlesian PC and after completing his personal quest. There doesn't seem to be any impact on the dialogue or plot except for a line in the epilogue that states that he returns to Vigil's Keep after giving his speech to the Circle. -Vajarra
 * I'm still playing Awakening but that happened to me as well. I exported my female human noble Warden from the original DA and after I made his personal quest, it said 100 of approval (Love). It may be a bug or something since you can't romance him and my Warden is married with Alistair. --Rocketai (talk) 23:47, July 4, 2010 (UTC)

Anders' Family/Past
Is it possible that Anders' is Fiona's child? He certainly acts and looks similar to Ceilen and Alistair. I haven't played Awakening though.

Not that I'm saying this should be added, just curious. 94.172.220.198 18:36, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Trivia
How is looking like Alistair and acting a bit like him trivia? I don't even think he looks that much like him. Another Anders exists in a different Bioware game? Also, not trivia. I think we're really grasping at straws here. LVTDUDE (talk) 22:25, August 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree that the Alistair resemblance thing shouldn't be considered trivia since it is more like a baseless observation. If there are some sort of facts to prove why we should consider this then it should be put up, otherwise no. In terms of Anders, if there truly is a character by that name in another Bioware game, unless it is specifically the Anders in Dragon Age mentioned in another game it should be referred as a character with coincidentally the same name, so it is not associated with the Anders from Dragon Age: Awakening. There are probably several characters from different games with the same name so unless they have some sort of similarity I don't know if it should be considered as trivia, although I do find it interesting to know. Celsis (talk) 19:10, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

So, I'm playing Witcher (EE) to import my save to Witcher 2, and during a fight, I hear this random mob critter say "Die, bastard!" Immediately, I look about the screen to have Anders cast Haste. And I realize I'm not playing DA2. And I thought 'Did BioWare reference CDProjekt Red because they borrowed BW's Aurora engine to make Witcher?'

Or am I overthinking this and Anders just loves saying "Die, bastard!"? Quirkynature (talk) 05:23, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

Here's a Trivia - Justice: "ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL" *Anders Glowing eyes* (In deep voice)"Meredith, you have the attention of those infitely your greater. Those that you know as spirits and demons are your salvation through destruction. You have failed Anders, we will find another way.. RELEASING CONTROL" -- Rameyuk (talk) 02:54, Septermber 06, 2011 (UTC)

Blood Mage Reference
I love that they actually have dialogue where he "admits" he's a blood mage after you give him the specialty. It always annoyed me in Origins that you could make Wynne a blood mage, yet she continued to preach against maleficar. AbsolutGrndZer0 (talk) 20:03, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Showing leniency
Does anyone know what happens if you, rather then conscript him, ask the templars to show leniency? Does he escape again and ask to join, or do you lose him for the rest of Awakening? - Kerethos (talk) 22:44, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Dragon Age II
Anders is in DA2-

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/02/07/dragon-age-ii-character-reveal-anders.aspx

Also been confirmed by Gaider somewhere on the forums.

JAKE200493- cba to sign in :)

Infobox image
The article's heading to edit war town. Isabela's picture and Merrill's have been updated to Dragon Age II. There is no policy regarding what picture should be predominantly featured, but I also prefer the newer picture, simply because it's newer, heh. I don't like the idea of splitting the image like Hawke (which works because there isn't one single appearance of Hawke, and s/he isn't just male or just female). --D. (talk · contr) 20:50, February 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * It's silly to try to change everything and make it less important and deny what was done before. Merrill, Flemeth and Isabella was very minor characters and whose design has changed very much, it's not the same thing. For example, I don't think we put Tamlen once in ghoul in the infobox even that it was his last appearance. Otherwise, why do not you do an extra image below the infobox like The Vault, like the Master for example? It will suit everyone I think. Itachou [~talk~] 21:47, February 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't see changing the image for infobox as making it "less important" though. The article has plenty of space to add images, and there's always the gallery.
 * On Tamlen, I think that's probably be because it's a spoiler. I know that Hespith has the broodmother picture, which is a spoiler making this not too consistent (so it could be removed, I added it as a suggestion). It's mostly the picture people will associate with the character when they think of him/her/it that's most important I think.
 * As for adding a new cell to the infobox to include another picture, I personally think it looks a bit awkward, but maybe other people will like it. If there isn't enough feedback on this page regarding this (from my experience, it may go unnoticed), you can always ask on the forums. --D. (talk · contr) 23:22, February 8, 2011 (UTC)

Race
Now that it's been confirmed that Justice has bonded with Anders' physical body (and apparently mind), should we change/add to Anders' race the note "abomination"?

The short tale on Anders at the Bioware forum http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/6046067 gives the feeling that he is some kind of über-abomination or something. "I don't see myself when I change, only the reflection in their eyes and the sound of their screams. My arm lashes out and silverite doesn't so much break as explode in a shower of molten metal. The sword melts, running down the templar's chest, and I follow up with a wave of flames which scorch the flesh from his face, leaving only bone so hot it smolders. The trees are burning… the tent… everything around us." This would conjure the image of a rage demon (only much more powerful).

I know that abominations are demons forcibly taking over a human body, but what Anders/Vengeance has become fits the bill close enough.


 * That same short story says that he was with another Warden in Kirkwall, so shouldn't we change the article to say that he and another Warden named Rolan were assigned to Kirkwall, instead of using Game Informer reviewers takes on why he's there? The developers are what's canon, not the opinions of the reviewers no? Lying Memories (talk) 00:56, February 17, 2011 (UTC)

I would not write off Anders as a complete abomination just yet. An abomination constitutes that he cannot control the demon inside at all, whereas it seems that he has at least some measure of control. All we have so far is the very short story to tell what is going on. Why jump the gun now and write off Anders as an abomination now? Why not wait until we have more information, or maybe even until the game itself comes out before changing his race to "abomination". If it turns out he goes full-on abomination somehow during the game, then by all means change it then. Arctistor23 (talk) 01:12, February 17, 2011 (UTC)

No. Anders is an Abomination. When individuals resist the change, the resulting being is the general hideous perception of them. But in cases like Conner, where the demon was allowed, then there is no physical changes. At least in our original origin belief, Flemeth was an abomination who allowed the change, but is still classified as an abomination by others even though she is in control. Wynne could also be considered an abomination, since spirts and demons are the same thing with different intentions. Ultimatly the lack of research into the state is the reason it has become such an umbrella term for a wide range of experiences.--Ironreaper (talk) 01:25, February 17, 2011 (UTC)

Bug?
In awakening I haven't talked to Anders at all, but when I go to Amaranthine to talk to him by the tree, no speech button shows up. I've pressed tab and such, but its simply not there. My approval is at 100 with him, did I miss my chance to talk?

Anders in Dragon Age: 2
-minor spoilers- Looking into it, I've found that he will be in Kirkwall when we recruit him. So does this mean Hawke arrives after the Origins' Warden defeats the Archdemon AND takes down the broodmother in awakening? I don't understand the timeline, unless they changed it. From the demo, the goal is to get to Kirkwall from the beginning, but the delivery takes you off path, but then the demo throws you in Kirkwall fast. And your only level 6 (by the demo, so it could very likely be inaccurate) If they just fled Lothering, then the Bligh is still going on. This makes no sense because Justice is using him as a host, which means all of awakening's events had to have happened! So can anyone clear this up for me?
 * DA2 story takes place during 10 years. So I doubt that we will be able to encounter Anders right after we arrive to Kirkwall, but some time later (say 2-3 years after escaping from Lothering) --AriesCZ (talk) 11:00, March 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Timeline - Blight arrives, DAO starts, Hawke flees Lothering and arrives in Kirkwall. 1 year later, Blight is defeated, Hawke has paid off her debts.  It is only then that you can meet and recruit Anders, and he will make references to Awakening, suggesting that the timeline is, in fact, correct.  In one year, Hawke worked off her debts, and Anders joined and left the Grey Wardens.  You haven't "just fled Lothering" in the game world by the time you meet Anders, although it will seem that way because of the timeskip.

Seperate pages
Does anyone else think we should have seperate pages for Anders in DAO:A and in DA2. Seeing as some of the gameplay aspects are going to be a lot different (ex: specializartion, armor, etc.) in DA2, a single page might get confusing for all these aspects. --Davilimap (talk) 02:48, February 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what's happening with the gameplay sections since that will definitely get confusing once more information comes in (the page is a bit of a mess at the moment). However, I doubt it will be split the way you think it will, as the lore must stay on this article, per consensus over the forums.
 * It has been suggested that we split the gameplay sections to another page, like Gifts (Awakening). This means we'd have other articles for plot skills, gears, and such for all companions in their respective game appearance. You can give feedback on this forum post. --D. (talk · contr) 03:02, February 25, 2011 (UTC)

Sexuality
Three cheers to Arctistor23!! He found proof that Anders is the male bi option. the source is here: http://www.justin.tv/hdzebra/b/280830286 Skip to 1:36:00 and the male Hawke will flirt with Anders.--Ironreaper (talk) 04:02, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, we now have proof that Anders' sexuality is subjective - he is bi for male Hawke, straight for Female - compare www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDvW8fDJE7c&feature=channel_video_title for male, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlWUbrs5A2c for female. ~Tyrium (I don't have a username here, but I'm on bioware social) Page edited to reflect this, with source.

I don't see how that 2nd video suggests that he's straight, the first 1 definitely suggests he's bi, is there something I'm missing? If not, I think it's a silly notion and you should just say he's bi. Flare13 (talk) 20:07, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

Personality
My god, this guy. He's this games "I'm fucking annoying" character. He's the Carth Onasi/Atton Rand/Kaidan Alenko/Alistair of Dragon Age 2. The default male love-interest who acts on feelings rather than anything else. The "If I have an opinion about something, you can be sure it's the only thing I'm mentally capable of talking about"-character. At first you think along the lines "oh, someone against discrimination of mages! Cool!", but rather quickly realise there's no grey in this persons scale. If he was in power, we'd kill all the Templars as well as anyone looking at mages wrong. Oh, and don't forget to kill all Blood mages because they ain't real mages anyway. Oh, and Anders' basically a Blood mage himself but it's ok because he's capable of understanding the reasoning behind his own thoughts and he calls the demon part of himself a spirit. Someone shoot this guy. Perez Escuda (talk) 01:32, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with you on this one. At first I realy tried to understand him, i mean mages are realy abused by templars most of the time - that is just wrong. I belived he would settle down a bit after he *spoiler* almost killed that mage girl he was trying to save, but he just dont know when to quit. I mean *spoiler* blowing up the Chantry? Just how is that helps mages across Thedas? Chantry isnt just templars, its also alot of simple devoted people an he spat them in the face. We have a saying: if you spit on people, they will simply clean themself up, but if people spit on you, you'll drown. He simply opened a second front for mages to fight. To shoot him would be a mercy, he is a rabid dog, a loose cannon. For my Hawke personaly, the last straw was when anders commented about relationship with Merrill - She is a blood mage! she loves her demon not you blah blah blah, my spirit is better.... After that phrase i realy wanted to hit him square in the face with my 2h hammer and than tell every one: "Oh! He looked like that when i first met him! Honestly!"

PS sorry for my English, not my first language. Ursakar (talk) 12:03, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

Lol! Considering how much I love Carth, Atton, Kaidan, and Alistair… I *might* be a little biased in my opinion…

However, regarding the way Anders has evolved as a character, you have to consider that he’s not quite alone in there anymore… Justice is blind, and absolute... An eye for an eye... A life for a life... Not much room for nuance, or gray area to work with. Considering how many mages have been beaten, raped, killed or made tranquil (a fate worse than death), and under whose authority, what happened with Anders after he merged with Justice, and the choices this new Anders/Justice entity made were consistent with the character. I'm not saying that I condone what he did, or agree with what happened... But once the shock of it wears off, and you allow yourself to gain some perspective on the situation, it kinda makes a lot of sense. Anders would never have done what he did on his own, no matter how much anger he feels. Anders blames himself for corrupting Justice, but Justice has corrupted him just as well!

Also, what’s happening with Anders makes me think that there is probably a reason why spirits don’t normally walk among the living. Doing what’s right doesn’t necessarily mean doing what’s just… And doing what’s just isn’t always the right thing to do either. People will take into consideration the context and intent, as well as the emotional factors when evaluating a given situation. Spirits probably lack that ability; they simply are what they are in their purest form.

Joining with a spirit of Faith (like Wynne did) is most likely to be harmless… But Justice’s sole purpose is seeking justice. And according to Justice’s standards, there are probably no such thing as “innocent bystanders”… You either rise against the injustice and pick a side, or you become the accomplice of a crime by simply doing nothing.

Not to mention that spirits and demons do seem to feel a certain level of animosity and even contempt towards each other. Each time Anders goes on about the “evils” of dealing with demons, I see Justice expressing his disgust for them.

By the end of the game, Anders/Justice reminded me of V from “V for Vendetta” (as a romantic interest, I got a huge Angel/Angelus vibe too… Except they went a little overboard with the angst factor, and the clichés!  Lol!)…  I might even consider calling my character on my next play through Guy Hawke. ; b--Amalrica (talk) 20:01, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, Anders. I like how every other guy on that list I actually liked. (Carth, didn't, Atton, did, Kaidan, didn't, Alistair, did.) As for Anders: liked in Awakening, stabbed to death in DA2. I honestly was just going to let him live and make him leave my party, because I did not want him around me, but he did save my brother in the Deep Roads so I felt like I owed him something. Still when it actually came to that point in the game, I couldn't let him live. I couldn't. It was so frustrating. He wants to start a war? Attack Meredith, who is insane, not the Grand Cleric, who was one of the only reasonable characters in the third act. I'm with Carver on this one. I don't hate him because he's a different character. I hate him because he won't shut up about it. Every time he opens his mouth, I want to side with the templars just to spite him. There's a difference to me about character development and character derailment. There were moments where Awakening!Anders shone through, but in the end, he was a completely different person. Hell, I might have even liked him as an antagonist, a tragic villain who used to be a hero, but as a companion, he just felt forced. --Rikki Rica

I recall in Awakenings, my female warden mage said to Wynn and him that mages ought to be free and he objected fiercely. So his objection is not to the circle only to the templar control of the circle. Not all mages would object. Wynn being an example. I also recall Justice saying he would never possess a living being. This raises a question how they came to be joined. Be that as it may, Anders and Justice, who never understood the outer world and saw no gray, corrupted one another with their joining. So neither is really whole. Whatever ritual Andres performs to free himself from Justice only releases some “other entity” called Vengeance. If you recall Awakenings, Justice does not condone wholesale mass murder. He repeatedly badgers Valenna about her murdering of the humans and even objects to her being made a Warden. This Vengeance is a corrupted spirit that contains the worst aspects of both Anders (his rebelliousness) and Justice (his blindness to things human). Killing Anders at the end of DA2 would not kill the corrupted spirit inside him, but would only release it, whereas sparing him might give him a chance to control Vengeance or contain its blind, unthinking, murderous rage. Blind Vengeance takes it upon himself to act on behalf of all mages for which he has no authority to do so. The human side of Anders knows he has done a great evil and wrong by killing the innocent along with the guilty. Vengeance does not know or see as he misunderstands the human world as did Justice in Awakenings. Also it should be pointed out that most of the really evil things done in the DA2 are done by power-mad mages not by the zealot Meredith who descends into madness due to the corrupted idol and who is also the great catalyst of the mages discontent and rebellion. That might be controversial to say, but it is true. Having sided with both the Mages and the Templars, I am convinced that the Templars had the right of it. Listen to Cullen at the end.--Diosprometheus (talk) 16:45, May 7, 2011 (UTC)

Let me also point out that the Mages of Kirkwall have a troubled history even before Meredith and Anders come on the scene and that their mages have a history of turning to blood magic in greater numbers than other circles, which is something that one has to consider in factoring the causes of Anders/Justice and the Templars.--Diosprometheus (talk) 08:01, May 10, 2011 (UTC)

Anders' Quotes
Just did a quick count and there are, at the time of writing, 27 quotes. That is more than a bit excessive. So, I think we should cut them down to the iconic Anders quotes, both from Awakening and DA2, maybe cut them down to about 10 quotes, otherwise its just a wall of text. Thoughts?--Madasamadthing (talk) 01:30, March 14, 2011 (UTC)

Background?
The current background is unacceptable. That whole "Short Story" part written by the dev team is too long and really needs to be cleaned up. SenorCero (talk) 03:53, March 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's not supposed to be there. It has been removed. --D. (talk · contr) 03:57, March 15, 2011 (UTC)

speaking of background, here's something interesting Graider just revealed about him, http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/304/index/6511895/3#6639653 I'm not a good editer so I'll just leave this here. --173.215.213.45 (talk) 22:22, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

Sexuality edit war.
All right, guys. This is driving me crazy to see it changed back and forth every time I visit this page.

By definition of giving Anders "subjective sexuality" at all, it means that he is GAY when Hawke is male, and STRAIGHT when female. This means that he is not bisexual at all.

I would love to see everyone calmly accept the fact that Anders in a game with a male Hawke just plain does not like women. If he's bisexual for a male Hawke, he's bisexual for a female Hawke, too, and there's nothing "subjective" about that.

Stop changing it. Seriously. If it makes you so uncomfortable, feel free to stop stalking his Romance section.

Solution nine (talk) 06:24, March 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * Seconded. User with IP 85.185.228.130, we know it's you.  Please desist immediately so that the situation does not escalate. 24.183.217.86 (talk) 06:29, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

"My point is that their actions don't change, yet some people are deciding that their inference is enough to suggest the characters alter their preferences at the player's whim.

Even if they did, I'm not sure that would be a crime. Regardless, it's not the case. - David Gaider

For some reason the direct link to the post isn't working but they are there in this thread http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/304/index/6576620&lf=8


 * Then on the same note, since we're quoting Mr. Gaider:


 * You do realize that not mentioning Karl or having the opportunity to have sex with a man in a particular game does not make him straight, yes? That is your assumption. You are free to assume such-- as I said, it's not mentioned much for precisely that reason -- but that does not alter reality and cause "a continuity problem".


 * The point of the matter here is that Anders swings both ways. If we've decided he's bisexual and there's no subjectivity... whatever, involved, then fine. Let's label him as bi. What's driving me insane is this notion that he's "normal"/"straight" when Hawke is female, but is ONLY open to men IF Hawke is male.


 * I'm not sure who got the idea of it being subjective in the first place; I was only editing the existing article. I am totally cool with changing it to just say he's bi and leaving it at that. That seems to be the case with his characterization in Awakening + DA2. Some contributors here seem to think that if he doesn't overtly say "Oh yeah, I had sex with Karl," that makes him somehow straight. It's not like it didn't still happen, people. Sorry if canon upsets you.


 * tl;dr he's my favorite character and I'm tired of seeing him lambasted with bigoted nonsense.


 * Solution nine (talk) 05:40, March 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * And I'm gonna quote the guy himself here:


 *  "I've always believed people fall in love with a whole person, not just a body. Why would you shy away from loving someone just because they're like you?" 


 * Enough said.


 * Solution nine (talk) 05:55, March 21, 2011 (UTC)

My personal objection with Anders' sexuality is not that he's gay, it's that he wasn't gay in DAO. There was no indication given in DAO of his being gay. While your above quote could indicate a preference or at least acceptance of male partners, hearing him say "I'll I want is a pretty girl..." as in the quotes section on the related page is somewhat of an indicator towards hetero. He didn't say "I just want someone special..." or "...a wonderful person..." etc, he specifically indicated a female.

To return to my opening line, Anders felt stupidly shoehorned into this DA2. His personality in DA2 barely resembles his DAO personality, they changed voice actors, he even looks different. I liked Anders in DAO a lot - he was my replacement Alistair plucky sidekick. To have him in DA2 as almost an entirely different character with the name Anders attached is a disservice. His suddenly being bi is just the icing on the cake of alienating me (and I presume others who liked Alistair/Anders for the reason I did) by changing him.

Regarding the subjective/bi thing: as a male Hawke you don't pursue a romance you'll never hear about Karl. It stands to reason, then, that you wouldn't hear about it as a female Hawke either. It's logical in an interpersonal sense, you don't talk profusely about the ex with the new gf right? It's kind of an important thing quest-wise, and knowing it on the way in would have explained Anders' reaction better, but considering new Anders' whole mage rebellion thing some secrecy is not unexpected. While the point may not be factual, the talk about his 'subjective' tastes may be an angry fan reaction to the changes to Anders between games.

Really though to pick on a larger point, why are there no straight romancable characters in the shipped game? Does that make any sense? Sebastian is the only straight companion, (he's not shipped, of course) except he's not a real romance, you don't get the achievement. It's strange to me. What was wrong with DAO's selection? Two exclusively straight and two bi. That is much more reasonable given real world occurance rates of homosexuality. I mean come on, I'm from San Francisco and even DAO's number of gay people was exaggerated (but acceptable considering the objective of being accessible to please a wide audience). DA2's number is just stupid. You want to be inclusive and accepting of gays? How about including an actual gay character and not just a bunch of bi ones? That would be much more preferable to me personally, and I presume others of like mind, than the mess of 'romance' in DA2.

Finally, before I end my rant, screw David Gaider for jumping on that kid on the forums like he did. I read that forum post (and if you hadn't already guessed) basically agreed with the guy's post, if for different reasons. For Gaider to go on some tangent about the 'priveledged class' and the homophobia nonsense was unacceptable. He didn't advance debate for that guy, he shut him down in a very arrogant and 'progressive' way (wait doesn't liberal mean tolerant? nevermind).

Ahem. Sorry about that whole thing. Been stewing for a while. Also, seriously WTF is it with the waves of enemies appearing RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of my archers/mages? Is this the mid 90's again with lazy game design?

And... /rant over

71.202.100.194 (talk) 06:46, May 3, 2011 (UTC)

Blood Mage
If you have imported your grey warden save from awakening and during awakening made anders a blood mage will he still have the hatred to blood mages in DA2 or will he remember that he is a blood mage.--(79.75.87.49 (talk) 21:46, March 20, 2011 (UTC))


 * I doubt it. They retcon it if he died during the epilogue, so he's probably still a pretty avid enemy of maleficarum, despite what you chose in Awakening. Solution nine (talk) 00:42, March 21, 2011 (UTC)

I know the page was locked due to the edit war(s), but I wanted to add a link to the "Renegade's coat" in the section that refers to it. I guess it's up to a moderator to decide if that's worth doing :-). --Morgan-wolf (talk) 02:23, March 23, 2011 (UTC)

I think that Anders' sudden aversion to blood magic has to do with Justice's influence. It seems that spirits and demons strongly oppose each other in the Fade. Justice's aversion to demons and everyone dealing with them (blood mages) probably influenced Anders' opinion on blood magic in DAII, and made him quit practicing it altogether if he ever did in Awakening. Just a thought... --Amalrica (talk) 19:20, March 26, 2011 (UTC)

DA2 Free Skill point condition
-I dont think this has been reported here yet. Ive been using Anders as primarily a healer, in his personal skill tree, I only invested in the healing line and neglected putting any points in the Vengeance tree. Upon completing his personal quest in Act 2, the 'Vengeance' activation ability has automatically been unlocked, without him having leveled up or having any spare points at all. Whether this is a bug or it was intended Im not sure, considering his personal quest isnt the only time his has entered vengeance mode in cutscenes.

Anders can join with you after siding with the Templars?
I have heard that if you have Anders at full rivalry (*not* friendship) you can convince him that he/Justice was wrong in blowing up the Chantry and join you even though you've sided with the Templars. Has anyone tried this? I only mention the possiblilty because there is suppose to be dialog/VO for it in the game. Would be nice if it's true, and probably what I would do in every pro-templar playthrough: IMO, the worst thing you can do to a fanatic (at least in his mind) isn't to kill him, but to convince him that he was wrong. *evil grin*


 * It may be similar to Fenris joining you if you side with the mages, if he had full friendship/rivalry. If he's neutral about you, he will fight to the death. Seemed to be the same for Anders in my second playthrough. I sided with the templars and had to fight him.
 * Solution nine (talk) 20:15, March 26, 2011 (UTC)

What I know is if you have 100% friendship with him and spared him and asked him to join you against the mages he will say no but he will show up later. It was not clear to me what he was doing when he appeared. I did not have to fight him. Sabastian, however, will leave for Starkhaven even with 100% friendship. Good riddence. This doesn't answer your question, however.--Diosprometheus (talk) 16:56, May 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * There is certainly Rivalry dialogue possible that is not triggering. This is a confirmed bug currently awaiting a fix. Whether that dialogue leads to him joining you against the Templars remains to be seen. Full friendship, however, absolutely does not lead him to join the Templars, so he may suicide anyway, just with a different speech beforehand. 72.152.129.128 (talk) 02:31, May 8, 2011 (UTC)

Bioware's Mistake
There's too much of a story conflict between dragon age: awakenings and DA2. 1st example I'd like to put the conclusion of anders is DAO:A is that either he stays witht he wardens for some time then leaves for 2 months but then comes back and faithfully stays as a warden for his remaining yrs. or in some situations he killed in the battle of vigils keep if u dont have enough upgrades and choose to save amaranthine. so how was he in kirkwall if he faithfully stayed in fereldan with the wardens or died at Vigils keep? should this be in trivia? much shortened obviously
 * It's worth noting that everything in the epilogue is conveniently rumors or hearsay by lore standards. None of it technically has to be true. Yes, DAII does retcon quite a bit from DAO. His death in Awakening, and the subsequent retcon of it is already noted on the page. HelterSkelter (talk) 04:58, April 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * They bring back people whom the Warden not only saw die on-screen but was able to loot their corpse -- it's not much of a stretch from there to bring back people who only died off-screen. --Morgan-wolf (talk) 16:04, April 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Although, in all fairness, Flemeth (that IS who you're talking about, right?) gave Hawke an amulet with a part of her inside (keep in mind the dialogue between Varric and Cassandra: "Did she send someone with them?" "In a manner of speaking...") BEFORE she was killed by Morrigan.  And then, one year later, we gave the amulet to Keeper Marethari and had Merrill do the ritual thing that brought out the piece of Flemeth in the amulet.  So there was a time when Flemeth actually WAS dead.  Technically. (talk) 13:01, May 15, 2011 (UTC)

There are definetly several mistakes. The one I find most noteworthy is that in the Epilogue of Awakening, it says (if Justice accompanied the Warden, thus lived) that he later dropped dead at Aura's doorstep, years later. This can't be true, though, considering, he would have had little time to do so. A year after the Blight ended Hawke met Anders. I'm going to make a rough guess and say the events of Awakening took, two months tops. In the epliogue Anders might remain a Warden for a while, but he will eventually leave. I'll say that took maybe another month. Even if I'm wrong about the time these events took, either way, Justice couldn't have died years after the events in Awakening. Also, Anders never died. If you do the quest where you go see Nathaniel, Anders says it was someone else. Mikazuki (talk) 23:11, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

Turn him in?
In Dragon Age 2, you can choose to turn Isabela over to the Qunari and/or Fenris over to his former master. I hate Anders and would love to turn him over to the Templars, especially during his companion quest in Act 3. Is there any way to do this, or to kill him myself? Servius (talk) 13:41, May 20, 2011 (UTC)

His defining attribute in Awakenings remains the same in DA2- Irresponsibility. There is no way to turn the arrogant, lying, betraying, sociopathic viper in your company over to the Templars. Give him the middle finger by siding with the Templars and take sudden glory in his complete mental breakdown. Remember, however, he may have saved your brother or sister.--Diosprometheus (talk) 08:02, May 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * Tsk, tsk. I (or my Hawke) just want to let you know that on the other hand, he's absolutely amazing in bed... -- Marvin Arnold (talk) 22:36, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Anders Behring Breivik
The Norwegian terrorist of the same name and similar looks did indeed play Dragon Age 2 http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original/CONFIRMED_Anders_Behring_Breivik_Played_Dragon_Age_Games_20110724.shtml, he also wrote a "manifesto" and a video of his "confession" is called "Knights Templar 2083" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2018172/Anders-Behring-Breivik-Prime-Minister-leads-memorial-service-Oslo-Cathedral.html#ixzz1T1RTSllm However disgusting, I believe it should be mentioned.


 * It's just the media trying to put the blame on video games for his despicable act, and making some sort of comparison that isn't relevant in my opinion. This isn't worth mentioning. --D. (talk · contr) 00:00, July 25, 2011 (UTC)

LMAO. Yup, that's the media for you. They mentioned on the news how Dragon Age II was innappropriate for children. No duh, it's rated 'M'. They just can't think of anything interesting to out on any more.


 * Yes, he apparently considered himself a member of a modern day Knights Templar Order (Pauperes Commilitones Christi Templique Solomonici)... If his objective had ever been to emulate DA2 Anders, I'm sorry to say he definitely was on the wrong side of the fence.  He's looking more like an "AntiAnders" to me.


 * More seriously though, this guy claims that he had been planning his attacks since 2002. This is WAY before DA2 was ever conceived / written.  He'd even changed his name to Andrew when writing his manifesto.


 * It really is just a sad coincidence. And there's absolutely no similarities between his motives, and Anders' motives in DA2.  If the guy had been named Ludvik, we wouldn't even be discussing this.
 * --Amalrica (talk) 16:46, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

DA2 Specific Gear
With the new item packs (and Legacy for Anders), shouldn't Anders' specific gear for DA2 from the DLCs be included in the list for specific gear after the companion armor link? (just wanted to throw this up here before editing or anything) FaeQueenCory (talk) 21:23, August 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't see why not. It only needs to be specified that a DLC is required. --D. (talk · contr) 21:41, August 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Ok, I added it, but couldn't get it to flow right as "(item img) 'Item Name' Requires XXXX DLC", so I just put them below the item names in bullets. It kept doing this odd placement when I had them in a single line. Now, off to edit the same for the other DA2 companions. - FaeQueenCory (talk) 23:26, August 24, 2011 (UTC)

friendmance / rivalmance?
The way "friendmance" and "rivalmance" is used in this article (pertaining particularly Anders' fate in DA2) is a little confusing, like the author of that section thought these terms applied to non-romantic friendship or rivalry. I romanced a fully friended Anders and he made no implication that he deserved death at any point, so I don't know where that's coming from. Can anyone confirm what this actually refers to? 71.60.227.208 (talk) 06:05, October 11, 2011 (UTC)

I've been looking at this page, and I'm not really sure as I've never "Friendmanced" Anders to the end, only rivalmanced. I do not have the knowledge to change it. Xelestial (talk) 01:08, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

What they're saying is that if you fully romanced him and maxed out friendship with him yet let him go instead of agreeing to fight with you, he will later express regret for what he's done. This does not happen if you have him stay with you. He will also express regret if you have a rivalry romance with him and side with the templars. I cant confirm this though, because every time I pursues a friend romance with him, he always stayed with me, he didnt leave. AFreeMarcher (talk) 01:23, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

Changed to reflect the endings correctly. Asherinka (talk) 23:21, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

Clean up
I've done a little clean-up but the end of the game section really needs some help...I feel a little overwhelmed though, and I don't know enough to fix his endings. So can someone clarify or fix exactly what happens when Anders is rivalmanced, friendmanced or simply friended or rivalled? I feel like there's too much repetition about the romance in the Dragon Age II section of this article. I only really know rivalmance and friendship. It would also be cool to get a reference for the final trivia point about Adam Howden's cat. Xelestial (talk) 01:11, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

Changed to reflect the endings correctly. Asherinka (talk) 23:21, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

latest PAtch didn't fix DA2 Epilogue bug
The article claims that, unless the latest patch is installed, Varric will claim Anders stayed with the Warden even if they broke up before the final battle. This bug was still present with patch 1.03 installed after my Warden told Anders it was over (before the final battle). -- Marvin Arnold (talk) 22:06, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Are you playing from a 100% new playthrough? I can't say for sure, but many of the bugs fixed in patch 1.03 only actually get fixed on a new game. Like for example, if you had the Isabela forced out of your party bug (If Isabela was your friend and giving you +5% speed, it didn't actually work. But, if she was kicked out of your party, it still removed 5% speed... next time, no addition, kicked out -5%... just going back to your house would "kick" her from the party and give you a cumulative -5% speed) because while the patch fixed it so it properly applied the speed increase, your save file has all your stats hardcoded into it, so now you are getting that +5% properly... great your -150% speed from the many times during patch 1.02 she was kicked is now -145%. AbsolutGrndZer0 (talk) 02:33, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Background & Solitary confinement
Shouldn't the mention of it be added to the background? I think it's important. He tells the Warden in DAA that templars placed him into one for a year prior to his last escape attempt. Asherinka (talk) 00:32, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

I've edited the background, sources (to avoid possible confusion):
 * twelve years - short story by Jennifer Hepler ("I was no more than twelve when they came for me. My mother wept when they fixed the chains to my wrists, but my father was glad to see me gone. He had been afraid, ever since the fire in the barn.")
 * solitary confinement - dialogue in DAA ("I escaped from the tower seven times. After the last time, they put me in solitary confinement for a year. Eventually, I'm sure they would have branded me a maleficar, true or not, and executed me".)
 * reason why he likes cats - dialogue in DAA ("You know, there is one thing I miss about the tower, my cat. It wasn't mine, just a mouser that hung around the tower, a vicious little tabby. There were days when that stupid cat was the only person I saw. Except for it not being a person." or "There was a mouser in the tower named Mr. Wiggums. Only company I had when the templars locked me up. Miss that beast a lot sometimes.") Asherinka (talk) 03:36, January 22, 2012 (UTC)

In regards to the latest edits by User:Asherinka
I don't want to cause an edit war but I see that you're changing some of the things I added to make it more exactly how we discussed we thought it should be and changed it back to some of the gameplay guide language. I am putting what I added in bold.
 * I don't understand why you removed "It is likely harsher punishment was not given since First Enchanter Irving believed that Anders, however reckless, posed no true threat." I found stating that the First Enchanter believed that Anders posed no true threat seemed random unless the writer had point, so I added in an explanation.
 * You put: "If Hawke refuses, the quest is canceled. " which brings the reader out of the notion they're reading a story, and back into a gameplay guide. It's also pretty obvious that the quest would not be able to be completed if the player refuses so instead I put "Anders is angered and drops the subject" as that is what happens in the game's story, which is what is being discussed. For clarity's sake, we also could add "effectively ending the quest" or the like.
 * Also you removed the alternate scenario: If a friend, Anders is laying out milk for the cats. He thanks Hawke for help and support or argues that he will make Hawke see the truth, even if he convinces no one else depending on which scenario plays. He doesn't thank Hawke for his help and support in the rival one, that's why I added it.
 * You added back all the extra text on this part: In the end, whether Hawke asked Anders to stay or to go away in Act 2 and whether Hawke agreed or refused to help him in Act 3. While I put: In the end, no matter what decisions Hawke has made up till now. I see no reasons for stating every single decision you can make regarding Anders down when it is aforementioned in the previous article. It simply looks cluttered. No matter how you play the game you will get the same outcome, that's a fact, so we don't need specifications.
 * I also don't see what need there was to remove the sentence "Despite the various potential outcomes of Awakening,". It acknowledging the fact that no matter what you in Awakening, Anders will still be in the same situation in DA2. If you had never played the game and just read the wiki, you'd probably be a bit confused unless explicitly stated. Xelestial (talk) 20:12, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

PS By no means do I want an edit war :) Asherinka (talk) 20:37, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Because it is a speculation. I might agree with you but it is still a speculation and I try to avoid including anything starting with 'likely' in the articles. I strongly advocate for not including it.
 * Because it is obvious that somebody whom you refuse to help is angry, but it is not so obvious that if somebody is angry the quest is completed. I agree that it is sounding a bit like a gameplay guide but I don't know how to state it otherwise, and if you include both "angry" and "effectively ending the quest", it is just too long. May be something like simply "drops the subject" would work, in fact..
 * Because it is already included in the previous sentences. "If a rival, he is writing a manifesto to convince Hawke to side with the mages. If prompted, he reads it aloud." You are welcome to reword this fragment if you wish to, but there is no need to write it twice :)
 * Ok, I've changed it to a shorter version.
 * I've added a separate caption to address the issue of various outcomes and also moved three little fragments that you had previously moved to trivia there.. Is it ok for you?


 * Regarding Irving, I agree this is like speculation (regardless of whether it's likely or not), so its removal is justified in my opinion.
 * Although I think adding details are important (e.g., regarding Anders and what he does), if there's a way to make this shorter and just as efficient, I think it is the best to address this. I personally prefer the shorter version, though it can be clarified that we're talking about how Hawke dealt with Anders to be more specific.
 * On the Awakening outcomes, I believe it should be mentioned as well, but it can be reworded, or appended as a note instead. Even if some scenarios are different (e.g., the meeting with Nathaniel), these should be moved back to the appropriate section so that it reads chronologically. --D. (talk · contr) 20:57, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

Amulets
I removed the phrase that Anders comments re Tevinter Chantry Amulet and Seal of Dumat contradict each other. He makes three comments: Thus if you play the DLC in Act 1 or Act 2 before you give the gift, there is no contradiction at all. It arises only if you play it somewhere in the end of Act 2 or in Act 3. I don't think it warrants being included in the article, however curious it is. In the end, Anders has a long history of being inconsistent :) Asherinka (talk) 15:15, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Before fighting Corypheus: the magisters did not enter the Golden City
 * After fighting Corypheus: the magisters did enter the Golden City
 * Upon receiving the gift: the magisters entered the Golden City, but why to blame all mages

If it's a contradiction, then it warrants inclusion because it addresses an inconsistency in the story. I don't see why we should pretend that these inconsistencies don't exist. Isn't this a wikipedia for people to gain information about the game? We're not doing anyone any favors by ignoring the problems. The DLC makes no attempt to accomodate the dialogue spoken by Anders in "Tevinter Amulet," and his words in Legacy simply make him a plot device to provide a specific message that contradicts what he tells Hawke in his Act II quest. It's as much of a contradiction as Hawke's father, Malcolm, having three different "origin" stories - the background implied by Torvald and Ser Carver, the DLC items that addressed that he fled as a mercenary with Leandra, and the explanation provided in Legacy with the Grey Wardens. Rather than ignoring that there are clear inconsistencies, I think they should be addressed. Lobsel Vith (talk) 14:02, February 4, 2012 (UTC)