User talk:Max21

[ Click here to leave me a message! ]

Welcome
Hi, welcome to the Dragon Age Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the User:Max21 page.

I hope that you will stick around and continue to help us improve the wiki.

Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Loleil (Talk) 09:41, 2010 May 9

RE:Preview
Yo dude,

You are talking about the Forum right? coz u know that was actually what I was doing. I [Preview], [Edit], [Preview], [Edit]++ for like 3 hours there and when I pressed [Save Page]? It was You who edited it right bafore me and that just Totally-Erased out all my texts, LoL. No hard feelings man but Damn, that's why I started to press [Save Page] instead of [Preview], so my wall of texts don't just disappear into thin air lol Oh btw, can u tell me how to make those fancy Character Screen that you have on your User Page? oh hey nvm I think i could figure it, u know what yea, if you can teach me that'd be great i bgotta brb. Fy can [ fahy - kan ] @ 08:11, May 11, 2010 (UTC) Fy can [ fahy - kan ] @ 14:35, May 11, 2010 (UTC) Fy can [ fahy - kan ] @ 15:37, May 11, 2010 (UTC) Fy can [ fahy - kan ] @ 08:44, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, never noticed that before, I'll look out for it next time. Thanks!
 * I've actually got into the habit of doing that actually. I never knew what you just told me earlier. I'll try to keep it low..
 * I Just did, Just now.. (before I see ur message, lol)

Tagline
I'm finding having the tagline on every page a little distracting. Would you have any objections to removing it? 04:39, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry about that
When I edited that forum, apparently others had posted before I saved, and I ended up editing an old version of it. Usually I get redirected when that happens and have to confirm the action, I don't remeber that happening though. All the wikis were acting strange for me this morning, special backgrounds wouldn't show, unending load times, etc. I'll try to be more careful when a take a while typing out a post from now on. Aedan Cousland 23:50, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Admin Nomination
Just wanted to let you know that you've been nominated as an admin by me in Forum:Admin Nomination: Max21. Your welcome to make a statement about what you'd like to do with the tools. 05:06, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

You are now an admin
I'm happy to tell you that the admin tools are all yours. I'll look forward to continuing to work with you in the near future. 22:14, May 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Congratulations on becoming admin and joining our team. Good luck on the job and have fun while you're at it :) --Mytharox 10:19, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks guys!  Max 21 ( talk  |  contr ) 16:26, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Images
Perhaps that can be done with the bot user:Caridin. I've uploaded over 1000 images alone, no way that have the time setting all of those. And I imagine most people don't set these based on my history with the wiki, most people simply upload and forget, not even categorizing them. So an automated process to setup most to e.g. bioware would be preferred imho, or a very simple way for users that would only require a checkbox e.g.--Mytharox 14:21, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I hope you can use the bot then, to mass update things. Deleting images would be a few steps to far imo as that is one of the reasons why wikia is so successful, giving people a nice way to edit and view articles and as far as I know Bioware is actually happy about all the extra attention and free advertising they are getting thanks to fan sites like this one. Adding the extra page to the upload of the image is nice, and it cannot hurt to try, but I am sceptical, most people hardly read such things, just like most people have no clue what is written in the eula of a game and still they press accept. --Mytharox 14:42, May 28, 2010 (UTC)

Indenting
I realize the editing/indenting is wrong, but I can't turn it off. I know there are supposed to be colons you erase, but in my editing boxes they are no colons, there is just the indenting. So telling me that doesn't help. Apparenlty this isn't as easy as it should be for some of us, since it is a problem for a lot of people, and since we all know how you use computers, probably something else going on here. Now I didn't see on your page if there is another editing mode and what I may need to do to get into it to make the colons show up. If so, what is it? Lady Kathlyn 17:25, May 28, 2010 (UTC)

indenting on forum
Hey Max!

I have to say, when I'm typing, like right now, I never see any coding on any pages. When I'm responding to a forum, I don't see the coding from previous entries, including a colon sign to create an indent. If I add on to the bottom of something, I have to place my curser behind the last comment and return. It then places me exactly at the same starting point as the previous one, if it was indented or not.

I actually don't find the indentions easier to read, but more annoying as it starts to scroll a conversation across the page. For me it's much easier just to have a skipped line between each poster, but maybe it's my 40yo eyes wishing they had bifocals. I'd much rather be able to go to the bottom of a page to find a new post than to have to figure out if new posts are imbedded in previous text, but that's just me.

I just wanted to let you know the instructions seem simple, I'm just not seeing them when I'm on a page. Ozena Lyn 20:21, May 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * This is an exmaple of indenting with the Rich Text Editor, which is what I assume you use. Undet the 'Text appearance' box, it is the second from the right. Clicking it will indent anything you type, even if you press enter (which will keep it organized). It is normal wiki behavior to indent the following reply, and I would like for you to follow it.  Max 21 ( talk  |  contr ) 22:10, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I simply hit the "edit" link and it opens a window and I type. I couldn't tell you what window this is. It could well be rich text, but I wouldn't know. Not a techie. The top row of my "page" looks much like an old microsoft word icon set (before the current version of word with ribbons). Under text appearance for me from the right is the allignment buttons. Looking at your writing above, in this the edit screen, I do NOT see the colon mark, but that it's indented. Likewise, when I returned down from yours to add to it, mine indented to align with yours. I'm just saying, what seems easy to you, not so much to others.
 * I simply hit the "edit" link and it opens a window and I type. I couldn't tell you what window this is. It could well be rich text, but I wouldn't know. Not a techie. The top row of my "page" looks much like an old microsoft word icon set (before the current version of word with ribbons). Under text appearance for me from the right is the allignment buttons. Looking at your writing above, in this the edit screen, I do NOT see the colon mark, but that it's indented. Likewise, when I returned down from yours to add to it, mine indented to align with yours. I'm just saying, what seems easy to you, not so much to others.
 * I simply hit the "edit" link and it opens a window and I type. I couldn't tell you what window this is. It could well be rich text, but I wouldn't know. Not a techie. The top row of my "page" looks much like an old microsoft word icon set (before the current version of word with ribbons). Under text appearance for me from the right is the allignment buttons. Looking at your writing above, in this the edit screen, I do NOT see the colon mark, but that it's indented. Likewise, when I returned down from yours to add to it, mine indented to align with yours. I'm just saying, what seems easy to you, not so much to others.




 * Perhaps something easier like....DON'T hit save if the screen tells you there's an editing conflict....you'll erase other people's comments. Please DO double space between posts to add open space so that responses don't flow together. Please DO sign your posts, or at least type out your name so that responses don't run together. Just a thought. Ozena Lyn (talk) 11:51, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

edits destroy format
I know my edits are destroying the numbering formatting. I have reverted my edits myself many times as soon as I notice the destroyed formatting. It is not my fault. I have recopied and reentered my updates many times. I only leave an edit unreverted if it looks perfect on my browser. Something is terribly wrong with this wiki or its software or at least with the way it interacts with my Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.2.3) Gecko/20100401 Firefox/3.6.3 ( .NET CLR 3.5.30729) browser. It is so frustrating. I may just have to give up on your wiki. I do not experience these problems (or any other problems) with the Wikipedia. Please try to find someone qualified to help.Howard McCay (talk) 01:01, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

re: Indenting
Hey Max,

You left me a message regarding indenting on my forum post about Levi Dryden. That was good information, though I didn't indent anything there, because the writing was all done by me. I wasn't responding to anyone. I did accidentally hit the enter button twice between paragraphs, so there was a double space. If that is why you left that message, then please say so. I thought the "instruction" was a bit superfluous given that minor error. If that was just a general note you sent to all forum users, fine, accept my apologies. However, I'd rather you spend your time working on the fine people on the forums that cannot spell or form a complete sentence. LVTDUDE (talk) 03:29, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

Something that would really help
I know you're all about indenting to make things easier to read. Here's something that will help a great many more people. Let the powers that be know that the white lettering on black background may look cool, but causes terrible eye strain for a large number of its readers. I know it doesn't bug everybody, and that it is a somehwat controversial internet topic, but for those of us that are affected by it, it is murder. I'm a migraine sufferer, and I'd be curious to know if other migraine sufferes have the same problem. I can only view it for a few minutes before my eyes go buggy. LVTDUDE (talk) 03:36, May 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * The skin won't be changing. The main reasonis that gamers play in low lighting, and having a darker site makes the transition easier. Having it white would strain eyes more.  Max 21 ( talk  |  contr ) 03:38, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

preferences
I'm such a wiki newbie...I don't even know where the preferences are...BUT...in looking directly above where I"m typing...I think I see little buttons with arrors, between the "link" icons and the alignment icons...might THOSE be indent buttons? Ozena Lyn (talk) 11:48, May 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, when you hover over them, they say 'Increase indent' or 'Descrease indent'.  Max 21 ( talk  |  contr ) 22:09, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

Images
Scanned them. I'm new to Wiki, so let me know what I need to do to fix them.GreyWarden (talk) 06:37, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

New Wiki Start Page
Hi Max21,

don't know if it is me or my browser, but the frame that contains the circle shaped pics does not autoscale with my browser's window size (all other frames do).

When I narrow my browser window (which I usually do) I end up having the "news" bar and the ad (that is placed at the top right of the page) hovering over the pics.

Just wanted to let you know.

regards Pp2009 (talk) 13:58, June 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Same here, except that with my non-widescreen monitor I don't even have the option of widening the browser window enough for it to display the page properly. See this screenshot for details.


 * --M.harmless (talk) 14:14, June 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'll restore the old icons until it can be properly fixed. 15:06, June 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * I had a feeling this would happen. I run on a 1280x800, and I run an adblocker to remove the annoying ads throughout the web. I can go ahead and make it 4x4 instead of 8x1. Let me know how it is. 00:31, June 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * New version looks fine @1152x864 --M.harmless (talk) 00:49, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes. Works perfectly now. Pp2009 (talk) 06:57, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

Maric possibly Morrigans father
Hey Max in the stolen throne it mention Maric made an unknown promise to flemeth. Given the stolen throne is set 30 years before origins and Morrigan is 30 it MAY be possible that Maric is Morrigans father, i just thought you may have found it interesting. Of course nothing is concrete but it's implied quite heavily and I thought it might be a nice thing to add to her page.

Regards Sam

(Dante Cousland)

Help
Can you please explain to me in terms an almost complete technical novice can understand, how I go about leaving a new post in the forums? I've never used anything like this before.
 * First, go to whichever forum you wish to comment on/reply to. Click Edit this page; write whatever you wish to say at the bottom of the page; then sign your comment with four tildes ~ ; then click save! Easy as pie.  11:22, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Haha, ignore what I just said! Apparently I misread your question. Loleil detailed it out on your talk page. 11:24, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks
I wanted to thank you for the indenting help. I think I figured it out and I don't know if you've seen some of my later posts but I believe I've got it. If there are any more issues, don't hesitate to tell me. I actually have another question if you will indulge me. I want to post one of my warden profile pics from the bioware site to my profile on this site. I saw your profile and and I would like to know how to kind of do the same thing. I have a little bit of my profile set up but I'm not sure. Fantasyeve87 (talk) 17:33, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Use the CharacterTag template like I did. 17:38, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks!
Thanks for the welcome! Hope I can contribute as well.

Rich Text Editor
Dear Max21: Thank you again for your helpful information concerning the wiki's rich text editor. I was about to attempt to contribute to the Sten/Dialog page, when I noticed a corruption similar to those I observed when trying to make earlier edits to this wiki, before you taught me about the problem with the rich text editor. If you could trace the introduction of the multiple "1."s in the Sten/Dialog, revert them without losing the most recent contributions, and gently inform the contributor(s) whose use of the rich text editor may have introduced these corruptions how to avoid use of this problematic rich text editor as you kindly did for me, I would greatly appreciate your service. Until then I shall refrain from touching that page. Do you know if anyone is working on improving the rich text editor? Howard McCay (talk) 21:39, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

why no external link?
I made the text on the site also ,so why can't i add the external link under?

I already got feedback (only good so far) so why is this a problem?

I made the text on the sites also,so far missing before i add them,i'm new to the site ,still i try use the preview before i add them.

there are already external link to you tube from other users ,so why is this a problem?the tubes i see so far even miss side quest..my tubes don't.

maybe you can tell me why this is a problem for you?

I so far add them as external..and here are several external links so far,and i see no problems with this..i made them to help user's here.

Still i miss a good overview from all quest's in area,like why Is not side quest sweet Iona/Dairren added on origin story(noble) also missing on the tube that was there?

the link are on bottom on site,and why can't we add external links(why can't i do it when there are link out on the site already?)

maybe you can tell me?

you told me this was last warning? maybe try not be so hostile,it's a better start.

I will stop adding if you give me a good reason.,but maybe a link help more than nothing( i search for info on the darkspawn and i could not find it,and i try my best fix it..i guess thats no reason be so hostile. I thinking these sites was made to give most info possible..if you want follow the text i agree this should be main thing,still sometimes its easier show it on a tube if you are unsure,so why can't we provide both on the site?


 * You will stop because Loleil and myself have told you not to add it. Anything official is fine, but these are not. 23:40, June 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm just going to to expand on my initial response to you TheRoyAndre in case it caused some confusion. Although I said I was willing to leave it in for the time being, I was hesitant and and now that Max has had a chance to have a look I think he's correct to remove them. I personally see several problems with adding videos. As I mentioned before there is a danger of links to player made videos being used to advertise. Also, if we allow one person to link to their video tutorial it will open the door for other people to add their video and that could lead to huge external link sections. Finally there are issues of canon. If we link to something it gives it an air of "officially supported". I feel it's best not to add something that only presents one way of doing something. Hope this clears things up. 01:00, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

m point is the first-I get my first message (this is last time i gonna tell you...about adding tubes..

I never get any warning before that so called last warning..

my second point i have no advertising in my tubes..I just add them to help..

third point is there are already external links & tubes on the site ,NOT added from me..

I watch them and they miss quest's.If you see the tubes as a problem I have no problem stop adding them,

Still i think this is for the best of the user's,so far i only get positive feedback .so still have problem see your point.

I like the external like(tubes) they helped me at least first time playing it.(and so far i got feedback they help other users also,but if you feel this is a problem,still hard to understand.I finish my game 8 times i have 1450 points on achievement,still i feel i adding info,so why this is a problem,I have hard understand,for me, external link(tubes is only a small text on the site,if you have a hard time get the quest(solutions) if you both see this as a problem,well I stop making them,but maybe you should consider that people using this site to help them finish their game in the best way..by making restriction is for me NOT a good solution.

i guess user's will go into you tube for help instead of going to Wiki to get the help they need.(mean less user's watch these sites,by adding both,you get more users.

i understand restriction on advertising or in self interest,I have NO advertising or info that miss leading the text on the site.only understate them and show it by sight in stead of text.I don't see the problem still sorry,but to users i got good feedback from,well i guess they can ask you both why this is any problem.

I guess i will stop making the tubes.I see no point make a problem of this.I used a lot time and effort making them,I honestly expected better feedback.from the admin on these tubes,so far it seems you both the only one having a problem with it.

also tell me that i need stop in way you talk to me,give me no interest adding anything on this site anymore..,In the way you respond to and way to tell a user that only try help out.seems for me to cooky(sorry to tell) I was thinking this site was made by user's for users and not your personal site.

from here on I will NOT add any tubes,text or links.If you both feel better i can actually delete all sites i made on darkspawn chronicles.

since they not up to your standards,but maybe you should fix the site's and quest missing...the DLC was out weeks ago.

If that both make you feel better.and sorry i'm to old to make this to a case.and i learn to answer back in a polite human way,and NOT give feed back ..you will stop reason we told you so..that is for me NOT a good reason.(answer) by answer more polite you may also get more people adding(update this site also.)

I feel i have nothing more to add since your feedback(how your respond) give me a reason to not add anything here.

I did not expect or feel the answer's you give me give me any reason add anything more.I not added the tubes for the admins that have hard time give a polite (normal feedback) back to the user's.


 * Here are some issues with linking to YouTube:
 * There could be possible copyright infringements.
 * Videos are not the best way to explain something; discussion is.
 * The only thing we should be linking to is official trailers. If someone really needs to see a video, they will be able to find it themselves. You are permitted to add almost anything. We have just asked that you not add YouTube links and use the Preview button when editing. These are not harsh demands we are making; they are requests, ones that you have chosen to ignore. 03:19, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

Truce
Yep, that's fine with me. Mictlantecuhtli (talk) 12:58, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

frustrated and need mad help
ya i still cant get the satchel pass icon to start my golem quest, i reinstalled the game and redownloaded the stone prisoner but to my surprise still no satchel pass, i have walk around and got into a ton of random incounters til they stopped and the only incounter was the dwarf but he doesn't tell me anything about the golem so ya i am lost and tired of starting new characters, i am currently on my third character and about to finish the tower to go to lothering next, am i posed to do something else to activate it, please i need help

can I ask you something?
how did you upload your DA:O character onto your profile?--Cybil24 (talk) 00:14, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

High Dragon
Exploits Comments, if I ever get the desire to play this game again I will try to find a practical use for the glitch and repost the blizzard thing. Mictlantecuhtli (talk) 09:40, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Even if it is not mod induced, I am reluctant to add it, especially the "ambush glitch". All they really let you do is attack first, which isn't even worth the trouble. Mention things for the sake of mentioning them is a waste of the reader's time. If you do find something practical about it, then feel free to re-add it. 10:06, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I didn't post the one about getting the first attack by ambushing, etc. I only posted the blizzard thing originally, and it isn't mod induced anyone that kills Kolgrim can use blizzard instead of the horn to anger the dragon. Mictlantecuhtli (talk) 10:44, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

DLC v. Mod
Those Wikipedia pages you linked to me seem to be on my side, mods being defined as made by users or game companies, with DLC being roughly as I said as well. The only thing being it says on the 'DLC: On Personal Computers' part of the page (in reference to what I'd call unofficial DLC) "the phrase 'downloadable content' is rarely used to refer to such content, instead being termed 'user-created content.'" Though honestly this is a Wikipedia article on internet culture we're talking about, it's hardly a definitive source. I can honestly say my own personal experiences are counter to that single statement, with the terms being used mostly interchangeably. As you are the admin here though, if you would like me to adjust my usage of the terms in the future I can do that. --Aedan Cousland (talk) 14:13, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Proposal: Standards for Infoboxes
I've been looking around for a while, and I've noticed a glaring error that seems to be prevalent on a lot of pages: there's no standard for which version of an item the information in the infobox shows. For example, take the Dalish Hunter's Belt. On the Consoles, the Combat Stamina Regen is 1.5, but on the PC, it's only 0.75. The issue is that the infobox has the Console stats. Now, if you look at the page for Evon the Great's Mail, it has the stats for the PC version in the infobox, and fails to make note of the console stats at all.

Frankly, I think we need a standard for what version of the information goes into the infobox, and a section for the stats of the console versions. As it is, those pages that have discrepancies are very unreliable, as there's no way of telling which version is shown in the infobox. As an added bonus, the problem only applies to items with Combat Mana Regen and Combat Stamina Regen, so there wouldn't be nearly as much work involved as if it was something that affected all pages on the wikia.

Anyway, that's my two cents. Swk3000 (talk) 01:48, June 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * The best thing would be to use the PC stats in the infobox and then make note of any discrepancies between the platforms on the page. We could also list both in the infobox (since the information is pulled onto other pages) and then make not of the differences on the actual page. We could do something like: . It would be fair on both accounts and also show the reader that there is a difference. 09:53, June 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's actually what I was thinking. It's just that there's currently no standard, so the person putting the information in the infobox goes with whatever version they have. I actually like the way it's done on the Andruil's Blessing page: . However, instead of repeating all the information in the Properties section, I would simply add a Notes section and put a standard note; something along the lines of, "All Combat Health/Stamina Regeneration values are doubled on Console versions." It would be similar to the note on all Spell pages saying, 'Activation Base is in Mana and varies with Fatigue%'


 * Now, I can change the information in the Infobox to show the information according to whatever standard you want, but I don't know how to add sections to a page, so if a page doesn't have a Note section, then I'd be unable to add the standard note. For now, I'll wait to see exactly how you want it worded, then go from there. Swk3000 (talk) 10:43, June 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * If I may join in with a couple of comments/questions...
 * Is this a general difference between PC and Consoles that mana and stamina regeneration is twice the PC value on the consoles? That would explain quite a lot.
 * You can create a Notes section by typing a new headline like this: ==Notes==
 * The "Properties" Sections on the item pages seem a little redundant to me, because they just repeat the information that is already in the info box. Do we really need/want such sections? --M.harmless (talk) 10:54, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * P.S.: I just saw that User:Melios is apparently in the process of systematically deleting Properties sections on all kinds of item pages (and I think it's a good thing). --M.harmless (talk) 11:02, June 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * From what I understand, all Regeneration values are doubled on Consoles. Apparently, it's a difference in how the PC handles things versus how the Consoles do. However, I don't know any details.


 * I see. That explains why some items have been repeatedly edited. Thanks. --M.harmless (talk) 12:22, June 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the information on how to add a section. As I said, I'd like to get final word on how this should be worded before I go on an edit spree, but once I know, I'll go ahead and add it. I'll also need exact wording on the note that will be added, just to make sure everything is uniform and professional-looking.


 * I do find the Properties section redundant. I'm glad User:Melios is deleting them. Swk3000 (talk) 11:35, June 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * We can use  CON and, but I am not sure on the wording. Perhaps:
 *  CON Mana and stamina regeneration varies between the console and PC platforms. Regeneration values are doubled on the console.
 * Not perfect, but you get the gist. Should we make a console template like the template?  12:01, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Theoretically I think it's a good idea because and  often have the same platform specific information. I'm not sure though if "CON" is as instantly recognizable as standing for console, as the other templates are as standing for Playstation 3, PC and XBOX 360. Would a console template that says "PS3 + 360" or "PS3 / 360" maybe make sense? While it would not save display space it would only require one template instead of two. --M.harmless (talk) 12:22, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

What about this? CONSOLE It won't get confused and isn't insanely huge. 12:24, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

PS3 | 360 and  PS3 | 360  work as well. 12:38, June 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * I like PS3 | 360  because it fits in with the current templates (the font having the same size and thickness). Then of course one could change the existing ones to fit the new ones, I guess. Personally, I think I like the current style better, but maybe that's just because I'm used to it.
 * In case of a CONSOLE version, I think we could go for the same font size as the current templates without it being to huge, like this: CONSOLE  with maybe a colour instead of the grey, but I'm probably not the right person to talk colours being partially colour blind. (I'm only sure, that it's grey because of the colour code ).
 * What might be in favour of a more specific PS3/XBOX version rather than a more generic CONSOLE version is that in the future, games could be released on other consoles and we don't know yet, if they will have the same distinctive features, bugs, etc. that the current console versions share. Then maybe that is going a little too far in terms of thinking ahead? Not sure. --M.harmless (talk) 13:14, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's why we use templates! Easy updating. :) We could use purple or yellow if you want. Plus, if we do make a template for the console, we can always change it in one edit. 13:20, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good point. :) I guess, it's really just a question of making all platform templates fit together, i.e. same font-size, same border, etc. --M.harmless (talk) 13:24, June 14, 2010 (UTC)